Performance Steering & Handling?

[special-K]

I have this '99 Sonoma now and my plan is to go sporty good handling. Are there any companies making quick ratio steering or other performance handling upgrades. I think I'm lowering 3/3 and I'd like to do handling improvements while lowering. Then there are brakes. Do any bigger brakes swap on the front? I'm looking for a disc brake rear.

[LT7A]

I'm not well versed in these trucks. Some research into the factory packages might net you some stuff: Xtreme, etc. You already know about the ZQ8 stuff right? Not sure what all was available. Some Bilsteins will always be an improvement. Poly bushings, stuff like that.

[special-K]

I'm just beginning my education with these trucks. I need to search to see what's out there before making a move. I know there is all this autocross stuff for C10s and wonder about S-series. I drove that other Sonoma my friend had set up nicely and fell in love with the handling, after driving full size trucks all my life. Just the smaller dimensions. I went over a mountain on a switchback road and could hug tight on right handed curves with the corner of the hood 'right there". I thought "Why go to the extent guys do to autocross a C10 when you start out way ahead with these light little trucks.

[LT7A]

Originally Posted by special-K

I'm just beginning my education with these trucks. I need to search to see what's out there before making a move. I know there is all this autocross stuff for C10s and wonder about S-series. I drove that other Sonoma my friend had set up nicely and fell in love with the handling, after driving full size trucks all my life. Just the smaller dimensions. I went over a mountain on a switchback road and could hug tight on right handed curves with the corner of the hood 'right there". I thought "Why go to the extent guys do to autocross a C10 when you start out way ahead with these light little trucks.

Makes sense to me. Same idea for mileage. S during the week and C/K on the weekend.

[special-K]

I am missing the hauling capacity of the Suburban, as well as security and weather protection for tools. But before I had this Sonoma I realized my days of needing full capacity everyday have passed. I can use the Sonoma through the middle of most jobs when all I'm doing is shuttling and use the Suburban to get set up and breakdown jobs.

This is my use for now. But my long term plan is a fun little sport truck for getting around in. I'd like to set up a small 4wd pickup for carrying tools

[CastIron]

You mentioned rear disc brakes, and that got me thinking. The later model S10 blazers 4x4s (maybe 4x2s as well) came with rear disc. I'm pretty sure they had either the 7.5" or 8.5" rear differentials. I wonder if you could grab all the parts from a wrecking yard and just bolt them on? The axles would have to come out to get the park brake backing plate off, so maybe new parts would be better.
Maybe some other blazer parts could work too, such as the sway bars. The front would probably be stiffer and do the pickups even have a rear?

[special-K]

Good thoughts. No rear stabilizer on my truck and I don't think any did, unless with ZQ8 maybe. I saw a listing for a factory 2wd S-Blazer rear with disc brakes and 3.42 posi. That's what I'd like to find and swap in.

[LT7A]

Makes sense that you can set up a job with the big truck and then rip back and forth in the S-truck during the middle of it. We do something similar by bringing in a gang box or more and having identifiable mobilization and demobilization tasks when we put a schedule together. That's for jobs that go on for months, but they are similar to what you're talking about. In fact I'm trying to convince a buddy here to set up his jobs with a toolbox so that he can stop carrying tools around in his truck all the time or loading / unloading it frequently. To that end, one of those cheap harbor freight trailers might be the ticket if the client has room for it to be chained up somewhere.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but for the sake of discussion, I'll mention that I've come around to the Dirty Larry perspective on rear drums, haha, if you remember him. The fronts do so much of the work that it's a considerable cost to swap out a system that in good condition, is usually more than adequate. The discs definitely look cooler, and if you can snag a rear end that has the gears you want at the same time, that's a slam dunk.

I recently also read a good post on rear sway bars for pickups. I'll bet one off of a blazer would do just fine. But a pickup relies on independent rear end articulation to keep a firm tire contact patch in order to turn and stop well while it does not have a load in the back. And a sway bar, by tying the two sides of the suspension together, can end up causing less grip under certain conditions. I like putting sway bars on pickups to stop the wallowing, but it was a good thought to me to go with a stock size one like off of a half ton Suburban for a full size, so a stock S Blazer bar ought to be just the thing.

[fauXGT]

On my '91 I put 98-02 Camaro/T-A front and rear discs. I found a company that made the bigger rotors with bearing races for the fronts. No proportioning valve, which freaked out alot. I can slam on the brakes and the whole truck squats. No nose dive. I love it.
I still do have this mechanical ABS aftermarket system that some company was selling in the early '90's.
And replace the steering rag joint with a solid one. On the Sy/Ty.net site, someone was selling a Jeep one that was clocked for the turn signal cancellation that bolted right in. More road feel. That was 15 years ago.
A bigger front sway bar, but I got rid of the rear, even with an extended cab being it was way too hard of a casual driver.
And Bilstein shocks to firm up the ride. Some Sy/Ty'ers put in quick ratio boxes, but alot said if you were not going to track it, it wasn't worth it.
Too bad alot of the companies that did S10 accessories have since moved one to other things.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by LT7A

...Please don't take this the wrong way, but for the sake of discussion, I'll mention that I've come around to the Dirty Larry perspective on rear drums, haha, if you remember him. The fronts do so much of the work that it's a considerable cost to swap out a system that in good condition, is usually more than adequate. The discs definitely look cooler, and if you can snag a rear end that has the gears you want at the same time, that's a slam dunk.

I recently also read a good post on rear sway bars for pickups. I'll bet one off of a blazer would do just fine. But a pickup relies on independent rear end articulation to keep a firm tire contact patch in order to turn and stop well while it does not have a load in the back. And a sway bar, by tying the two sides of the suspension together, can end up causing less grip under certain conditions. I like putting sway bars on pickups to stop the wallowing, but it was a good thought to me to go with a stock size one like off of a half ton Suburban for a full size, so a stock S Blazer bar ought to be just the thing.

I've never gotten excited about rear disc brakes on anything. I know Larry and agree with him. The proof is in putting new pads on front three times with the rear shoes still looking good. It's just a sports car thing to do to the Sonoma and there is a factory set-up found in Blazers.

Never been big on rear sway bars on solid rear axles either. Rear springs on trucks don't really give body roll, it comes from up front with the weight and IFS. I've put sway bars on a few trucks and never felt a difference.

Originally Posted by fauXGT

On my '91 I put 98-02 Camaro/T-A front and rear discs. I found a company that made the bigger rotors with bearing races for the fronts. No proportioning valve, which freaked out alot. I can slam on the brakes and the whole truck squats. No nose dive. I love it.
I still do have this mechanical ABS aftermarket system that some company was selling in the early '90's.
And replace the steering rag joint with a solid one. On the Sy/Ty.net site, someone was selling a Jeep one that was clocked for the turn signal cancellation that bolted right in. More road feel. That was 15 years ago.
A bigger front sway bar, but I got rid of the rear, even with an extended cab being it was way too hard of a casual driver.
And Bilstein shocks to firm up the ride. Some Sy/Ty'ers put in quick ratio boxes, but alot said if you were not going to track it, it wasn't worth it.
Too bad alot of the companies that did S10 accessories have since moved one to other things.

Thanks for all the info. What did you mean by "no proportioning valve, which freaked out a lot?". You eliminated the valve and now it stops flat?

[Myself]

All the sport lowered suspension, rear disc, posi, beefier 8.5 rear, and quick ratio steering box will all be found on a well optioned extreme S10. The 8.5 rear looks real similar to the 7.5 but the axle tubes step up larger before going into the pumpkin. No step up=7.5.

[special-K]

Thanks. Yeah, that's basically what I want to do, get all the LQ8 pieces the Xtremes got. But it was also a stand alone option.

I was wondering if companies made upgrade stuff the way they do for C10s. I drove my friend's LQ8 standard cab Sonoma on mountain roads and was impressed at the handling, as well as the smaller size/better visibility compared to full-size. Made me wonder why guys bother autocrossing C10s and not S10s. The S10 is miles ahead before touching a single part

[fauXGT]

If your rear is drum, the factory proportioning valve is said to be different than on discs. Most places will say you need an additional adjustable proportional just on the rear line. I didn't do that, and the 1st time I slammed on the brakes it didn't nose dive like most. But I have converted the front and rears from the GM 98-02 Camaro and still have the aftermarket mechanical anti-lock modules.
I can't remember the mech anti-lock company, being that was over 30 years ago, but they are the gold barrels on the master cylinder. One for front and one for rear.

[Myself]

Yes....BMR and UMI both make track type suspension packages for the S10. I'm sure others do as well.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by fauXGT

If your rear is drum, the factory proportioning valve is said to be different than on discs. Most places will say you need an additional adjustable proportional just on the rear line. I didn't do that, and the 1st time I slammed on the brakes it didn't nose dive like most. But I have converted the front and rears from the GM 98-02 Camaro and still have the aftermarket mechanical anti-lock modules.
I can't remember the mech anti-lock company, being that was over 30 years ago, but they are the gold barrels on the master cylinder. One for front and one for rear.

This is all helpful info.

Originally Posted by Myself

Yes....BMR and UMI both make track type suspension packages for the S10. I'm sure others do as well.

Thanks. I figured it was out there, just haven't looked yet. I don't follow autocross but I am interested in building and enjoyable road handler. I have endless old roads to drive.

[rdc72]

Check this guy out, he is in the middle of building pretty much what you are looking for, and he is using the majority of stock OEM parts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVusReoELWI
This video is the 2nd or 3rd on this S10 build.

[IIGW]

why not go onto the S10 Handeling page instead of an old fullsize web forum?

Theres over 10k members https://www.facebook.com/groups/s10handling

[special-K]

Originally Posted by IIGW

why not go onto the S10 Handeling page instead of an old fullsize web forum?

Theres over 10k members https://www.facebook.com/groups/s10handling

Thanks for the link. I do go other places for info but I'm asking here first because this is my home-base truck info place I visit everyday. My attitude is this place is less active for the very reason you show in your post. The more we use this subforum the better it will be. This site has expanded far beyond it's origins and I've had something to do with some of that. I believe in this forum and do my part to try to make it a better place. Also, on most other forums and FB groups you get punks with smartass questions and answers I don't care to deal with. This place is only as good as we make it and I do what I can.

I've already gotten some good help and I think those who gave it. I didn't want to jump into lowering just to lower if there were more handling focused parts to use. Thinking more on this I think I do want 3/3 drop and no matter what that means rear springs and spindles to start (and 1" drop springs). I think I'll just do that for now and if I want to go deeper into even better suspension I'll deal with that later. It will handle way better sitting 3" lower and using good shocks.

[HO455]

One of the drawbacks of the S10 package for all out autocross is the narrow front track. The narrow track along with a frame wide enough for a V8 means short control arms (Relatively speaking) which makes it harder to keep the wheel geometry in the sweet spot with bolt on parts.

The factory control arm mounting is poor and results in bump steer issues. Unless one addresses that there is no reason to convert to rack and pinon steering.

UMI makes non-adjustable upper and lower tubular control arms (The lowers with taller ball joints to help with the bump steer ). They should help make the 3" drop you want more livable as I believe they will give you more wheel travel at ride height than the factory control arms will.

If I remember correctly if you have power steering the 1990's vintage Jeep Grand Cherokee steering box is one of the best steering box upgrades.

I've just bought a second first gen S10 Blazer so I will be starting a repair thread for it here in the desolation of S10 land.

Photo of the first S10 better known at our house as the Stink 10

[HO455]

If your looking for some lowering blocks I'm sure I've got some lounging around in the garage you're welcome to.

[special-K]

I remember that S-Blazer. That's for the knowledge. I guess the size is a disadvantage as well as an advantage. A naturally better handling advantage in weight, lower, smaller dimensions. I'm realizing I won't be going all out on suspension now with this. I have the other trucks with all their needs and I'm looking more for good enough. Nice stance from spindles, rear springs, and shocks. Still not positive but am thinking maybe just go down 2". I'll keep hashing that inch around a while

[LT7A]

Originally Posted by HO455

One of the drawbacks of the S10 package for all out autocross is the narrow front track. The narrow track along with a frame wide enough for a V8 means short control arms (Relatively speaking) which makes it harder to keep the wheel geometry in the sweet spot with bolt on parts.

The factory control arm mounting is poor and results in bump steer issues. Unless one addresses that there is no reason to convert to rack and pinon steering.

UMI makes non-adjustable upper and lower tubular control arms (The lowers with taller ball joints to help with the bump steer ). They should help make the 3" drop you want more livable as I believe they will give you more wheel travel at ride height than the factory control arms will.

If I remember correctly if you have power steering the 1990's vintage Jeep Grand Cherokee steering box is one of the best steering box upgrades.

I've just bought a second first gen S10 Blazer so I will be starting a repair thread for it here in the desolation of S10 land.

Photo of the first S10 better known at our house as the Stink 10

Not to hijack special-K's thread, but I figured that any traffic over here is pretty much good traffic, right? That looks like a tidy Blazer you got and I actually like the Oldsmobile grill on there. Also, if you need some place for your spare sandblasting cabinet to go, Portland is not too far away for me, haha. I look forward to seeing your thread on the S-Blazer.

[special-K]

All chat is good here. With my decision making, as usual, I started out wanting to build the ultimate road handler. Then reality set in and this thing handles better tan anything I've driven in decades and just sitting a little lower with give it better handling. I want it to look cool with a lower stance. I decide 2" based on the rear springs, or actually based on the spindles which drop 2". So go 2" springs and spindles then decide. I didn't want blocks on the rear but decided if I want another inch I'll do blocks and front springs. 2" keeps the truck a bit more usable for hauling and clearance over rough spots. I may want another inch only on the front to give slightly more rake. Anyway, start with straight up 2" and that may be it or it will be a good phase one

[Cautrell05]

The 2wd s10 blazers used a bolt in wheel bearing instead of the packable ones and the larger dual piston 4wd brakes. A set of drop spindles for that year would help the ride height and improve the front brakes at the same time.
Extended upper and lower ball joints will also greatly improve the camber gain when cornering.

[HO455]

Thanks for adding to the thread!

I have a question about the taller ball joints. I see there are both 1/2" and 1 inch taller uppers available and 1/2" & 3/4" lower ball joints available. Do you have an opinion on which combination of taller joints to use?

Thanks in advance.