Make it handle

[tech@scottshotrods]

The shocks Air Ride/ Ridetech are Fox shocks the same they are using on OEM off road vehicles like the Ford SVT Raptor they are only offered non adjustable, single adjustable and triple adjustable ( dual is not an option)which has regular rebound, hi and low compression adjustability... If you have any questions regarding these coil overs or shocks I was at air ride still while testing and prototyping was going on and was involved in all the training courses from hyperco and fox...

[skoffice]

Awesome thanks for the info guys! That's pretty comforting knowing that Fox is making them.

I see why you chose them Nate. Is your coilover front suspension set in stone yet or is it still in the works?

Jon, what are the advantages of the Hyperco springs vs. say, Eibach's?

[tech@scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by skoffice

Awesome thanks for the info guys! That's pretty comforting knowing that Fox is making them.

I see why you chose them Nate. Is your coilover front suspension set in stone yet or is it still in the works?

Jon, what are the advantages of the Hyperco springs vs. say, Eibach's?

we offer them on our bolt in ifs as well as an upgrade due to the expense there pricey... 650.00 a pair for the single adj.
No to your question plain and simple why air ride/ ridetech went with the hyperco coil vs others is the material hyperco uses they use some of the highest grade material/ tensil strength. This means the coil will retain its height even after years of use... I will give you more tech info in the am when im at my computer I could be wrong but your standard coil are rated between 130,000- 150,000 where as the hyperco coil is rated around the 180,000 range
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[skoffice]

Originally Posted by jon@scottshotrods

we offer them on our bolt in ifs as well as an upgrade due to the expense there pricey... 650.00 a pair for the single adj.
No to your question plain and simple why air ride/ ridetech went with the hyperco coil vs others is the material hyperco uses they use some of the highest grade material/ tensil strength. This means the coil will retain its height even after years of use... I will give you more tech info in the am when im at my computer I could be wrong but your standard coil are rated between 130,000- 150,000 where as the hyperco coil is rated around the 180,000 range
Posted via Mobile Device

That's a little bit pricy but you usually get what you pay for, and they look like they were thought out pretty well.
Really? Years? That's pretty impressive. I come from an off roading background and I've seen Eibach and even King coils "settle" in height, in as little as a week. Granted they get worked much harder but in a racing application that could make a HUGE difference.

[tech@scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by skoffice

That's a little bit pricy but you usually get what you pay for, and they look like they were thought out pretty well.
Really? Years? That's pretty impressive. I come from an off roading background and I've seen Eibach and even King coils "settle" in height, in as little as a week. Granted they get worked much harder but in a racing application that could make a HUGE difference.

the hyperco engineer that headed the coarse told us you could take the coil of down the road 5yrs plus and measure and maybe see a 1/4" difference... yeah of coarse thats not the upgrade charge rather the retail price the shock bodies them selves are impact forged in which they take a aluminum slug heat it to 600 degrees then the impact comes down and forges the shock body keeping the shock body 1 piece this process is so accurate there is no machine work done on the inside of the shock body the only machining is on the threads and lower mount pretty impressive!!!!

[robnolimit]

As to the performance of the shocks, we'll find out soon. This saturday I'm going out to a Playday with the PalmSprings Corvette club. I was invited to go and Tech, and that lets me run with them. I ran there coarse last year, so I have comparable times. I put the new Ride-Tech shocks on last night, drove it around and they feel great. Now lets get back to topic of handling & steering systems.

[SBTork]

What advantage, other than eliminate deflection, do the solid tie rod end sleeves/adjusters hold over stock? Something like.....http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspen...ster-pair.html

[tech@scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by SBTork

What advantage, other than eliminate deflection, do the solid tie rod end sleeves/adjusters hold over stock? Something like.....http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspen...ster-pair.html

ours at air ride where purely cosmetic

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by SBTork

What advantage, other than eliminate deflection, do the solid tie rod end sleeves/adjusters hold over stock? Something like.....http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspen...ster-pair.html

Mostly cosmetic, some, like those with the wrench flats on them are easier to adjust than the stockers. But lets be real, we don't adjust toe settings on street trucks on a daily basis, so, mostly looks.

[robnolimit]

BUMPSTEER The term is self explanitory. Hit a bump (or compress the suspension) and it steers on its own. Understanding it is a bit tougher. It has to do with the relationship between the A-arms, steering arms, and tie-rod ends. Now we have to back up to a starting point. The position of the A-arms will create the "Instant Center (IC)" If you were to draw a line through the upper ball joint pivit center, through the center of the pivit shaft and extend it back a good ways, and duplicate this through the bottom arm, the two lines would cross. And that point, where they cross, is the I.C. Next, if you started at the I.C., and drew a line to the center of the outer tie rod end pivit, this would be the line that the tie rod needs to be on. To get the length ot the tie rod, draw a line from the center of the upper ball joint to the center of the lower ball joint, and a line from the center of the upper pivit shaft to the center of the lower pivit shaft. Where these lines cross the Tie Rod line will give you the tie rod length.

[robnolimit]

Step 2 I'd guess that not too many of us are going to build there own spindles, so we have to use the spindles we have. This places the outer tie rod end, so if we were to change something it has to be the inner pivit point. In the last post I explaned how to deturmin the elevation and length of the tie rod. But it can be shifted in board or outboard. If the steering arm is farther out than the ball joint line (spindle axis) then the tie rod will be shifted outboard, as in line A. This is common to 'front steer' spindles, like the C-10. In a rear steer spindle aplication, it would be common to have the tie rod shifted inboard, as in line B

[tech@scottshotrods]

I thought product and knowledge was the subject... the rest is skill level which depends on the individual and makes up for alot! I've seen a DSE customer (brian finch) jump in to kyles camaro and run faster times by a couple seconds which is alot on a fast track

[tech@scottshotrods]

i think i just posted that LOL hahahahahaha

[Mallory]

Rob I'm thinking about useing the Fatbar 4-link suspension on my 68 c-10 and was wondering how much room if any do you lose as far as tire width goes.
This is also a great thread i have learned alot, But some of it makes my head hurt trying to take it all in.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by Mallory

Rob I'm thinking about useing the Fatbar 4-link suspension on my 68 c-10 and was wondering how much room if any do you lose as far as tire width goes.
This is also a great thread i have learned alot, But some of it makes my head hurt trying to take it all in.

HAHA, thats what they make beer for. Our Fatbar takes up 4" outside the frame. You should still be able to run a 10" rim, 295 tire.

[Mechanic77]

Well I've got an ackerman question...seeing as the ackerman on our trucks ('73-'87 front end) is fixed (or at least hard change), do you happen to know whether it is better on a long bed or a short bed. I ask because I'm curious and I know wheelbase affects ackerman

On a separate note, when you set up a truck or car for road racing/autocross, how much do you take into account driver's preference? I haven't done any full-size car racing, but I've done quite a bit of RC racing and setup on them is very dependent on driving style. Some people (like me ) prefer a car that has a slight push when you get too aggressive, and others prefer a car that is a little loose.

[robnolimit]

All C-10's have "soft" acremen, but the long beds are a little better. As far as that is concerned anyway, other than the Acremen, the long beds have a long list of things making them worse handling than shortbeds.
As far as the set-up goes, your RC car is far more tunable than than a C-10. Because of the heavy nose weight, the trucks will push (understeer) in the corner entry, and be loose (oversteer) on corner exit. I try to get my efee as nuetral as I can, which really just shortens the enrty and exit, and lengthens the center of the corner where the truck is more nuetral. This way I can carry a higher corner speed and cut lap times.

[robnolimit]

I'm not sure about our race schedule yet. Tina's Mustang will be done soon, and we'll want to get it out too. --- I did'nt even think about changing the oil .

StevieB, I'd have to sat that Herb Adams book on suspension/handling is the building block to all performance. And it will take a few readings. There are others, but this one is really good.

[Hotchkis]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

I'm not sure about our race schedule yet. Tina's Mustang will be done soon, and we'll want to get it out too. --- I did'nt even think about changing the oil .

Rob,

We look forward to seeing you and your new projects! Let's make 2011 the best yet!

[Mechanic77]

Herb Adams Chassis Engineering is never too far out of my reach

[76kcfdeng]

Rob, here are some pics of the lower A arm moved forward an inch and how I did it. I would appreciate any thoughts on the good and bad of it. I mocked it up and cycled the suspension and steering with no issues I can see. I ground a notch in the lower cross arm an inch over from the stock dimple and cut the A arm for clearance. Did this to an old cross arm for a test, I did use my new drop spindles.


[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

At bumpstop, tested steering lock to lock
[IMG][/IMG]

[robnolimit]

looks like it should work fine. I like it. There will be a small amount of spring shift from the lower pocket, but no issue. How long before you drive it?

[calvin78612]

Just got my copy of Herb Adams chassis engineering yesterday,so far a great book with lots of info.

[76kcfdeng]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

looks like it should work fine. I like it. There will be a small amount of spring shift from the lower pocket, but no issue. How long before you drive it?

Thanks Rob, I hope to have it driving in a few months. Depends on how much body work I want to do before I put it together, LOL. I may paint the firewall and prime the rest so I can drive it for a while and continue the body work. I thought about the spring pockets not lining up but came to the conclusion it would not be an issue. Still working on cross bracing the frame, have to make sure everything will fit.

[Walkersan]

Originally Posted by 76kcfdeng

Thanks Rob, I hope to have it driving in a few months. Depends on how much body work I want to do before I put it together, LOL. I may paint the firewall and prime the rest so I can drive it for a while and continue the body work. I thought about the spring pockets not lining up but came to the conclusion it would not be an issue. Still working on cross bracing the frame, have to make sure everything will fit.

Any updates on this setup? Really interested in this to increase caster on my 72 since I already bought and installed everything on the front end.

Would this change have a negative affect on bump steer? I am trying to mentally picture the change, and it seems the outer rod ends would raise slightly with this mod, so this would make bump steer worse on a lowered truck... similar to relocating the lower ball joints like Rob did.

Nice job on your run at Del-Mar Rob. Got a video of JT in action there?

Walker