Make it handle

[Conundrum]

Thanks for posting that up Rob, I have been wondering how you guys did that. I am about to do something similar on my truck, but do you think it will work the same on my 74 with leaf springs?

I was originally going to find the best places on both sides, mark and support it then remove the middle section, raise it up 4" and the connect and reinforce it all back together.
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[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by Conundrum

Thanks for posting that up Rob, I have been wondering how you guys did that. I am about to do something similar on my truck, but do you think it will work the same on my 74 with leaf springs?

I was originally going to find the best places on both sides, mark and support it then remove the middle section, raise it up 4" and the connect and reinforce it all back together.
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Yes, you could do this on the square body trucks, to gain axle clearance, and gain shck travel room. But, the leaf suspension will still need to be re-worked. Flip the axle to start, Then raise the front hanger, and add a drop shackle.

[Conundrum]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Yes, you could do this on the square body trucks, to gain axle clearance, and gain shck travel room. But, the leaf suspension will still need to be re-worked. Flip the axle to start, Then raise the front hanger, and add a drop shackle.

I have already flipped my axle, and used the leaf springs from a 4wd (less arch), without the bed on it it is just touching the bump stops right now.

Will I be able to use those same measurements? The 1-3/8" spacer in the cuts? Or is it different?
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[NPilot1975]

Rob, Is there any gain to mounting bags/coils towards the end of the axle tubes (as close to the wheel as safe)? Along the same lines, the factory frame rails widen at the rearend. If I built a back-half would it be worth the effort to widen the rails from the cab to over the rearend or just keep them in line with the portion that is under the cab? Is 2" x 4" x 0.120" steel tube strong enough for a frame? I would plate any joints internally or externally with 1/8" steel. Thanx again, Jamison
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[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by NPilot1975

Rob, Is there any gain to mounting bags/coils towards the end of the axle tubes (as close to the wheel as safe)? Along the same lines, the factory frame rails widen at the rearend. If I built a back-half would it be worth the effort to widen the rails from the cab to over the rearend or just keep them in line with the portion that is under the cab? Is 2" x 4" x 0.120" steel tube strong enough for a frame? I would plate any joints internally or externally with 1/8" steel. Thanx again, Jamison
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There are advantages to keeping the frame wide like the OE. Shock position, bag/coil mounts, and panhard length. I'd do the extra work to follow that plan. Yes, 2x4x.120 is plenty strong.

[Conundrum]

Thought I would show the difference, the 2wd leafs are sitting on top of the 4wd leafs....

[robnolimit]

Hey, I learned somethin new. I didn't know that about the 4x4 spring. Did you take some leafs out? I would measure the hieght of the rail at the axle, then use 1 3/8" wedges on steps #1, & #2. Then measure the hieght again to check the gain. You can adjust the wedges to get the step you want.

[Conundrum]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Hey, I learned somethin new. I didn't know that about the 4x4 spring. Did you take some leafs out? I would measure the hieght of the rail at the axle, then use 1 3/8" wedges on steps #1, & #2. Then measure the hieght again to check the gain. You can adjust the wedges to get the step you want.

Wish I could take credit for that info, but I actually read it in this thread a few months ago. I do plan to remove a couple leafs, just haven't yet. Thanks for the tip on the frame mod, that makes a lot of sense now that I think about it.
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[hotrod1]

Hey Rob:

Can you address parhard bars a little more.

I understand that they should be level at ride height, preferably with the middle or bottom of the axle, but what is the desired placement when looking down on them from the top? Parallel with the axle as well? I see so many that are sloping backwards to mount to the frame. Which is ideal?

[robnolimit]

I use the 5 degree rule. Yes, having the panhard rod parallel to the axle is Ideal, but with 5 deg is OK. Many of them, including our new C-10 panhard rod kit (3 deg), lean back a bit to allow for clearance of the diff cover.
On the hight of the bar, if you average the hieght of the bar, that is the roll center height. For example, if the axle mount is 12" at ride height, and the chassis mount hieght is 13", then the Roll Center is 12 1/2". For these old pick-ups, the lower the roll center the better.

[hotrod1]

What about having a longer axle panhard mount to clear the pumpkin so the bar is parallel from above ?

[robnolimit]

Looks like a good set up. Yes, our new bar will work, no problem. There are two plates that slide between the arm and block, they provide the lower link mounting point.
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[robnolimit]

We are now in Texas, at the GoodGuys show. Check in to our Facebook page (no lilim engineering) for updates all weekend.
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[NPilot1975]

Rob, in redoing the rear of my frame, I am thinking of shortening it 11" and make a unibody out of it. This would give me 105.5" with the dropmember in the front. Will I be giving anything up with the wheelbase? Also in reinforcing 2"x4"x.120" tubular steel for the frame, could I cut 1/8" steel plates and put them inside the joints, drill holes through the outside and plug weld them or would I be better off reinforcing on the outside of the joints. Thanx again.
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[robnolimit]

fronts are in stock now, and the rears are done and out of prototype and testing, production rear bars are due in right after SEMA (nov 5th)

[69gmcc10]

Rob, I really appreciate this thread and everything you contribute to c10s and this forum. I have another question for you (thanks for answering my previous one), I don’t really want to lower the front of my truck 2.5”, I was looking for more of a 1” or 1.5” drop. Would it be best from a handling standpoint to do a drop member on a stock height spindle, cut ½ of a coil out or be a real man and just buy drop spindles?

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by 69gmcc10

Rob, I really appreciate this thread and everything you contribute to c10s and this forum. I have another question for you (thanks for answering my previous one), I don’t really want to lower the front of my truck 2.5”, I was looking for more of a 1” or 1.5” drop. Would it be best from a handling standpoint to do a drop member on a stock height spindle, cut ½ of a coil out or be a real man and just buy drop spindles?

If you only want 1 1/2" or so, use the 3/4 ton spring, and cut 1/2 a coil.

[bo-w]

awsome thread all and rob great insight on chassis and suspension. Do you all ever run in the sacramento area or reno? i Have to come watch you're truck stomp some sports cars.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by bo-w

awsome thread all and rob great insight on chassis and suspension. Do you all ever run in the sacramento area or reno? i Have to come watch you're truck stomp some sports cars.

Thanks, well, we'll be in Pleasonton in Nov for the goodGuys show, come out and check it out, it's a fun show.

[Greywolf200]

Hi Rob, enjoyed the bio in Street Trucks this month. Quick question, what is the problem with wheel spacers? Breakage or? Was wondering about using late model wheels on my '70.

Thanks, Jack Byrd

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by Greywolf200

Hi Rob, enjoyed the bio in Street Trucks this month. Quick question, what is the problem with wheel spacers? Breakage or? Was wondering about using late model wheels on my '70.

Thanks, Jack Byrd

Thanks, you can thank Tina and Michelle for getting them all the info. QUALITY wheel spacers are OK, cnc machined billit with good quality studs. Use anti-sieze and torque to spec. Our off-road buddy's use these to tune rear track width, and they can run 400 or 500 mile races with no problems. But, spacer rings, and cast spacers/adapters are BAD, BAD, BAD.

[aggie91]

My son and I are building a truck for him right now to drive when he is 16. We have been following this thread and the JT thread (am mag articles). We are going to do the front like the JT. It is an '82. For the rear we are thinking about a flip kit and C-notch.

What else would you do for the rear to handle better and not cost a ton of money? What type of sway bar? Bushing in the spring eye?

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by aggie91

My son and I are building a truck for him right now to drive when he is 16. We have been following this thread and the JT thread (am mag articles). We are going to do the front like the JT. It is an '82. For the rear we are thinking about a flip kit and C-notch.

What else would you do for the rear to handle better and not cost a ton of money? What type of sway bar? Bushing in the spring eye?

Should be a cool build. Pushing the front crossmember up 1 1/2" is a big plus. That solves the biggest problem with these trucks, the low hanging crossmember/arms.
Suare body's are easy builds. Don't over complicate it. IF it NEEDS new spring bushings, then use urathane. Otherwise, put it together. The tire will give up befor the bushing flex in an issue. Flip kit is good, use a C notch also. add in a Helwig rear bar, 1", I know, I'm not making any money here, but this will work great. Last, try the bilstien shocks.

[aggie91]

Thanks Rob.

The truck was sitting up for a long time. The bushings look dry and very cracked. We are going to pull the spring packs apart and clean up the leaves and paint them before going back together.

How do you feel about clamping the front half of the spring pack to help avoid wheel hop? Would that adversely effect the handling in corners?

[BustedTruck]

Lots of great information in this thread. Thanks Rob for taking your time & sharing some very valuable information. I read this thread multiple times & will have to read it many more times trying to get it all to stick. Thanks again Rob.