Is this truck worth it?

[bighog85]

Hey everyone, I wanted to get some opinions on whether a truck that I am considering is worth the asking price. It is an 85 c-10 shortbox that has been completely restored except for the interior which is already in very nice condition. It has a brand new ZZ4 350 crate motor, completely redone tranny, transfer case, etc. The truck is from west Texas and is perfect, completely rust and bondo free. The current owner is the one that did all of the work, he bought it stock. He says he's got about $24,000 into it and is asking $13,000. Does this seem like a good price or should I haggle a bit more? This would be somewhat of a daily driver for my short commute to work but also I'm looking for a bit of a toy. Opinions? Also, if more info would be helpful I can get whatever is needed. I'm meeting with him today. Thanks!

[kevinr1970]

A ZZ4 engine has aluminum heads with center-bolt valve covers; it doesn't look like this engine is either?

[bighog85]

Originally Posted by kevinr1970

A ZZ4 engine has aluminum heads with center-bolt valve covers; it doesn't look like this engine is either?

I'm not totally sure because I haven't met with him yet but I'm pretty sure he said something about different heads that he put on it. I'm not a mechanic at all but could that maybe explain what you are seeing?

[gchemist]

I drive a ZZ4. Yes, it has center bolt heads. However, the intake is old style. The valve covers are incorrect. I would need a close look to ID the intake. It's one piece rear seal. There is a provision for a mechanical fuel pump. Don't discount the block could be ZZ4 without aluminum heads. ZZ4 heads are aluminum and have angled plugs. It's a Vette design. A full crate ZZ4 also would come with a blue serial number tag.

[Malo83]

Nice rig, I would offer 10K cash and she's yours.

[bighog85]

Obviously you guys can't see everything with it but what is your gut feeling on it. Assuming the engine is what he says it is, might it be worth what he is asking?

[bighog85]

Originally Posted by Malo83

Nice rig, I would offer 10K cash and she's yours.

I would love it if he would take that but he's fairly firm. He says he is going to trade for a firebird if he doesn't sell it first.

[bighog85]

Originally Posted by gchemist

I drive a ZZ4. Yes, it has center bolt heads. However, the intake is old style. The valve covers are incorrect. I would need a close look to ID the intake. It's one piece rear seal. There is a provision for a mechanical fuel pump. Don't discount the block could be ZZ4 without aluminum heads. ZZ4 heads are aluminum and have angled plugs. It's a Vette design. A full crate ZZ4 also would come with a blue serial number tag.

So this could have started out as a crate ZZ4 and just had changes made? Or might he be blowing smoke?

[K5owner]

Not a ZZ4 at first glance or a C10. It is a K10 through with what I would guess is a crate GM 260 or 290 HP engine. No slouch and solid runner. With a cam swap can be a real sweet engine. Nice truck but I am bias as I have one exactly like it but with a 4" lift and 35" tires. It looks to be the same color as mine Midnight Blue. I would offer him $11,500 cash and see if he bites. Only because I don't think that is a ZZ4 without receipts.

[bighog85]

Originally Posted by K5owner

Not a ZZ4 at first glance or a C10. It is a K10 through with what I would guess is a crate GM 260 or 290 HP engine. No slouch and solid runner. With a cam swap can be a real sweet engine. Nice truck but I am bias as I have one exactly like it but with a 4" lift and 35" tires. It looks to be the same color as mine Midnight Blue. I would offer him $11,500 cash and see if he bites. Only because I don't think that is a ZZ4 without receipts.

Oh ok, that would be my mistake then. I just said C-10 without paying attention. I am going to ask for receipts today when I meet him. He told me specifically that it was a ZZ4 and that he is the owner that had it put in. If he can prove that it is would it be worth the extra that he is asking?

[RandyP]

With just a stock crate 350, new paint, cowl hood, rebuilt suspension (you did say all new minus the interior) and good tires etc. I'd say he is OK at the price of 13k. My issue is, I feel he is lying about what engine is in it. If he is willing to lie to you about that, what else is he stretching the truth on? I'd pass and tell him why. Might save the next guy some trouble or get the truth from him.

[K5owner]

To me no but the ZZ4 is a more desirable engine. It has 350+ HP and 400+ ft. lbs of torque so it will make the truck get out of its own way. There is no logical reason someone would remove the zz4 heads to replace them with iron heads(what it looks like). I would be suspicious. http://www.crateenginedepot.com/ZZ4-...609-P9406.aspx

[bighog85]

Originally Posted by RandyP

With just a stock crate 350, new paint, cowl hood, rebuilt suspension (you did say all new minus the interior) and good tires etc. I'd say he is OK at the price of 13k. My issue is, I feel he is lying about what engine is in it. If he is willing to lie to you about that, what else is he stretching the truth on? I'd pass and tell him why. Might save the next guy some trouble or get the truth from him.

Originally Posted by K5owner

To me no but the ZZ4 is a more desirable engine. It has 350+ HP and 400+ ft. lbs of torque so it will make the truck get out of its own way. There is no logical reason someone would remove the zz4 heads to replace them with iron heads(what it looks like). I would be suspicious. http://www.crateenginedepot.com/ZZ4-...609-P9406.aspx

I just spoke with him on the phone and asked about the motor. He said again that it is a ZZ4 that he bought from a place in town here. He's got receipts for it and also mentioned that it has something like a 5 year/100,000 mile warranty. What are some ways that I could check into it more when I actually go to see the truck? I apologize for my ignorance but if you could put it in layman's terms that would be great. I really appreciate your responses. You guys are awesome!

[rich weyand]

I checked my parts bin and the 350/290 hp valve covers have no badging. Can't tell for sure from that size pic, but it looks like it says GOODWRENCH 350, which is the 350/260 hp engine. All other GM crate engines are GM Performance. 350/260 hp has same block and heads as the 350/290 hp, but with a different cam.

Run away. I think he is lying about the ZZ4, so what else is he lying about? No way to know if he is not bound by the truth.

It's too bad, because a short box K10 w/AC, a new 350/260 hp crate motor, and no rust is worth $13K.

And you can easily get 275 hp and 420 lbft out of the 350/260 hp crate engine with a cam change, given that it already has the headers.

Here's info on how to tell what the factory thought the engine was when it went out the door. http://www.nastyz28.com/sbchevy/sblock.html

[bighog85]

He also has said several times that it is pushing 350+ HP which would line up with his ZZ4 claim but I didn't ask how he got that number. If he's got paperwork from a dyno then I don't know what to think.

[gonecountry]

A ZZ4 without the original heads is not a ZZ4 anymore

[K5owner]

Originally Posted by gonecountry

A ZZ4 without the original heads is not a ZZ4 anymore

Exactly my point. My valve covers came with those exact decals on them when I bought my 260HP or Goodwrench 350 I bought in 2009. I highly suspect that isn't a actual ZZ4 engine. But that truck is a nice truck otherwise. I was asking 5K for mine which I felt was a fair price considering it needed paint and a new AC compressor.

[bighog85]

Originally Posted by K5owner

Exactly my point. My valve covers came with those exact decals on them when I bought my 260HP or Goodwrench 350 I bought in 2009. I highly suspect that isn't a actual ZZ4 engine. But that truck is a nice truck otherwise.

Well when I meet with him I'll press him on it. He said that he got it from a shop here in town so I'm wondering if he was swindled. It does concern me that if this isn't the motor he's claiming that the rest my be off too. Thanks for your help everyone! If there are any other thoughts, please let me know.

[K5owner]

I bet it was a ZZ4 block that a local shop rebuilt and he got caught up on it being a "ZZ4". Bottom line is if it runs well, has cold AC and the drive train all checks out it is worth $11,500

[bighog85]

Originally Posted by K5owner

I bet it was a ZZ4 block that a local shop rebuilt and he got caught up on it being a "ZZ4". Bottom line is if it runs well, has cold AC and the drive train all checks out it is worth $11,500

So his HP claim could be true then if it is the right block, right? Would there be a way for it to still have a warranty if it had been rebuilt?

[K5owner]

It is possible but it doubt it would make that power without some good iron heads and even then it isn't a ZZ4 anymore. GM won't warranty it as it isn't in the config they sold it as.

[bighog85]

Originally Posted by K5owner

It is possible but it doubt it would make that power without some good iron heads and even then it isn't a ZZ4 anymore. GM won't warranty it as it isn't in the config they sold it as.

Okay, that's good to know. I wanted some good info so that I can question him pretty aggressively on it.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by bighog85

So his HP claim could be true then if it is the right block, right? Would there be a way for it to still have a warranty if it had been rebuilt?

The combo of block, heads, intake & cam are what makes a ZZ4. Put a magnet to the intake & heads. It shouldn't stick since they should both be aluminum. If it sticks, it's no longer a ZZ4. It might be a ZZ4 short block but that's not the same as a ZZ4 long block perf engine.

I'm w/the others.... it sounds like the 'ZZ4' tag is being used as a bonus selling point. It might or might not be intentional. Bottom line is you must decide if it's worth the same amount w/just a plain ol' replacement sbc as well as if that portion of the vehicle is not as described, what else might fall within the same category (transfer case, trans, no bondo???). It has to be a GM engine for the GM warranty. The shop that built it might offer some sort of warranty as well though so get clarification.

[bnoon]

The ZZ4 comes as a full crate engine, but there are also brand new ZZ4 short blocks available from the usual suspects (Summit Racing, Jegs, GMPP, etc). http://www.jegs.com/p/Chevrolet-Perf...49884/10002/-1 Not the same thing as the full crate and will make less HP/TQ with those heads as already said. His HP claim is perhaps a little inflated, but I do not get the feeling that he is deceiving you on purpose.

[bighog85]

Originally Posted by bnoon

The ZZ4 comes as a full crate engine, but there are also brand new ZZ4 short blocks available from the usual suspects (Summit Racing, Jegs, GMPP, etc). http://www.jegs.com/p/Chevrolet-Perf...49884/10002/-1 Not the same thing as the full crate and will make less HP/TQ with those heads as already said. His HP claim is perhaps a little inflated, but I do not get the feeling that he is deceiving you on purpose.

I was just thinking about that. Would there still be a warranty on the entire motor or would it be just on the block? I've not gotten that feeling from him either. He is a super nice, older guy that has always answered my questions without hesitation. Meeting with him today should clear some things up. I am very grateful for those here that do doubt it though because it got me thinking about something that I probably would not have considered otherwise. I will update you all when I get some more info.