Have a 4 WD question for our experts;thanks

[77 ChevySport]

Need help on the following for a general 4WD question:

I will be trading my 2003 4WD Trailblazer(50000 Miles) for a new Silverado.(Shortbed) Everything was going fine with the deal until they
took my T/B out for a test drive. They came back and told me my 4 WD does not work. No warning lights are lit up on the dash. They (Chevy Dealer) said they test to see if working on a non-slippery surface (Summertime) by making a "Crazy Eight" with the 4 WD turned on. If it grabs it
is working if not >not working. The last snow (not long ago) it worked fine for me. Of course this will effect the deal we make. They think the
clutches are not grabbing now and a simple flush for new gear lube may work. If not they said it could need new clutches and would cost
about $1000 for the work. Is this true what they are saying? All comments are welcomed. Larry

P.S. I have never changed the gear lube in the unit; as the truck has a little over 50000 mile on it. Should the lube should have been?

[donut]

This may be better off in the correct year section or 4wd...

That said. Does the 4wd switch light up? Sometimes mine will get moisture in it and not light at all, thus no 4wd. (what gets wet, I don't know, usually it dries out in a day then all is well.)
IIRC, The transfer case oil interval is 50k. It's also some special blue synthetic that I could only get from GM at like 8.00 a quart.

Check here http://forums.trailvoy.com/forumdisplay.php?f=174 Sticky at the top has some troubleshooting tips.

[MalibuSSwagon]

I don't see how thats a valid test of the 4WD system. I would not go to that dealer.

[franken]

I'd take it to a slippery surface and test it myself. Car dealers lie.
Trading in a vehicle means you get screwed coming and going.
Same with doing the financing through a dealer.

[msgross]

Time for a new dealer... I've never had one even test drive my trade in...

With 50,000 mi then it shouldn't have any issues.

Mine binds up a bit when 4WD is on and I turn. Tell them to pound sand, find a new dealer, and have them go get the truck from that dealer. Dealers can search the inventory for any options that you like and go trade, then sell to you.

[77 ChevySport]

Originally Posted by donut

This may be better off in the correct year section or 4wd...

That said. Does the 4wd switch light up? Sometimes mine will get moisture in it and not light at all, thus no 4wd. (what gets wet, I don't know, usually it dries out in a day then all is well.)
IIRC, The transfer case oil interval is 50k. It's also some special blue synthetic that I could only get from GM at like 8.00 a quart.

Check here http://forums.trailvoy.com/forumdisplay.php?f=174 Sticky at the top has some troubleshooting tips.

donut: Yes the 4wd switch do light up. Will switch the fluid out on Tuesday and see what happens. Larry

[franken]

See what happens? Doesn't seem you've tested it so what will you learn?
W/o a baseline, nothing.

[imjeff]

EVERY Chevy dealer has new Silverados. Sounds like you're getting the shaft (not the gold mine). Offer them $2000 less for the new truck...it's the same game they are playing with you. Don't do ANY maintenance on a trade in, especially from the dealership you're trading it to. They are just recouping service they would do anyway. Any dealer can get THAT EXACT truck and sell it to you without the drama. I've never had a dealership test drive a trade in. Be afraid, be very afraid!

[MalibuSSwagon]

Yea exactly, seems like they are abusing the customer vehicles just to "find" things wrong with them. You will get screwed on a trade in anyways, I suggest since your truck is lower miles you detail the truck, or have it detailed, and sell it yourself. Should come out ahead, likely the dealer offered you such a low price is because they are just going to auction it due to age alone.

[v30crewcab]

I don't trust anyone who tries to do figure 8s in 4wd on dry pavement.

[donut]

IMO, figure 8's on dry pavement, they're trying to break something. I do exercise the 4wd about every 6 mos, in a dirt parking lot.

Lights light up. When you switch it, do you hear a "whir" then feel a clunk? Not real sure, but I think there are a pair of actuators that have to function.

Check out the link I gave in the earlier post and educate yourself. I do have an '03 TB with 140,000 mi. I don't do much to it as it is a dd.

Fwiw, my local dealer would not price match on an 8.00 part from Rock Auto. They charged me 25.00. I told them if that was the way it worked there, they weren't going to be the ones to fix my AC...

IMO, wait on the fluid flush. Fix what's wrong first, then service it. Mine didn't get serviced until 85k. (I thought it had been done, but during a snowstorm, I was reading through the service records... I bought the TB with 70k on it.)

[77 ChevySport]

Originally Posted by franken

See what happens? Doesn't seem you've tested it so what will you learn?
W/o a baseline, nothing.

OK; got my baseline. I was told to do this from another diss. board with some
very knowledgeable people: On drive pavement in 4WD "HI" take a turn under 5 MPH. If it feels like the brakes are being applied it is working. Guess what:
I tried this and it did feel like the brakes where being applied. Will talk to the dealer tomorrow. Larry

[MalibuSSwagon]

Ok thats good, BUT don't let them drive it again!

I've worked at many dealers in various jobs, and will tell you this. Behind the scenes, they don't value the customers opinion and will probably let you know that when they respond to you telling them they are wrong.

[jeffahart]

Take your truck to their grass/garden area out front, do a few roosters. Show them the 4wd is working....... then drive to another dealer. Opps... I forgot step one, go inside drink their coffee and eat their cookies the proceed accordingly!

[MalibuSSwagon]

Also, they beat down customers on trade in value, so they make a bigger profit. A new car salesman I worked with said the dealer only makes $500 to 1k on a new car, but used cars net them 5k to 10k PER car. Mostly because they beat customers down on trade in value and then mark it up to the ridiculous dealer pricing. If you look on KBB the dealer pricing is always higher than private party

[msgross]

wholesale on trade in is fair... nit picking on little items, or make believe items, means I don't do business with them.


For awhile I purchased a new vehicle every two years. No dealer wanted to treat me with respect so I took my business elsewhere. I recommend that you get your deal in writing, go to the next dealer and see if they will beat it ON THE SAME TRUCK. There is no such things as "customer loyalty" so I don't believe in dealer loyalty...

[andrewmp6]

I never seen a dealer drive a trade in,Most walk around it once check the mileage and ask the year that's about it.And yes they do low ball you on a trade in to make the max they can off you.I have seen them offer 800 bucks on trade in for cars worth 3k to 5k because they are old.See what the blue book is on your tb vs what they are giving you on trade in.If you can wait and don't owe payments on the tb i would sell it private party and make more off it then what your trade in would be.With the tb only having 50k on it i don't see any problems with sell it fast if the price is right for it.

[V30 mongo]

Bottom line: You are an idiot if you listen to that dealer. It's there job to screw you out of your hard earned money as much as possible. They will use any excuse they can dig up, and you are stupid enough to believe them, to give you the bone. If you are that dumb to take their deal, then you deserve what you get.....

[rich weyand]

Dealers like to confuse the trade-in with the discount. That makes it sound like you are getting a great trade-in, when in fact most of it is a discount you would get anyway without a trade-in.

I always sell my own cars used on craigslist for the Kelley Blue Book "private sale" price, which is midway between wholesale (trade-in) and retail (dealer used car price). Sometimes I'll cut a deal that is halfway between the wholesale price and the private sale price, and I still get more than the trade-in.

For the new car, I look up the dealer invoice for what I want, and offer them $500 over dealer invoice. Since they are also making the holdback (a discount they get from the factory at the end of every month for the cars they sold), they are making plenty. If they balk, I just say "Hey, do you want to sell an extra car today or not?" and pull out my checkbook. Gets 'em every time.

Oh, and I don't tell them until after the handshake that I don't want any Scotchguard, pinstripes, undercoating or financing. That kills 'em, because they have huge margins on that junk. I don't need some high school kid making minimum wage spraying a can of Scotchguard on my new upholstery for a hundred dollar extra charge.

[old Rusty C10]

Im moving this to 4WD for more responses for you

[Campbel45]

Jack it up so all four wheels are off the ground. Put it in 2wd, watch 2 wheels spin. Put it in 4wd and watch all 4 wheels spin. Easy as that. Take a video if you must to prove your vehicle is fine.


If something is wrong no fluid change is going to fix it. They are using that "fluid change" as an excuse to get you in the service door. If you dont have 4wd usually there is a solenoid or switch that has gone bad and it will throw a code. As a GM tech that is one thing Trail Blazers are good for...throwing codes.


Stay away from whoever you were talking to and best of luck on getting a new truck

[OrrieG]

Originally Posted by 77 ChevySport

OK; got my baseline. I was told to do this from another diss. board with some
very knowledgeable people: On drive pavement in 4WD "HI" take a turn under 5 MPH. If it feels like the brakes are being applied it is working. Guess what:
I tried this and it did feel like the brakes where being applied. Will talk to the dealer tomorrow. Larry

Guess the folks here are not knowledgeable enough, hope it works out for you. I have worked with a few new car dealerships MalibuSS is right on the money. Anyone can go online and find out what the dealers are paying for new cars. No one knows what they pay for used. I had one dealer tell me the only reason he sold new cars was to drive business to the used side where he made very good margin when the customer could not afford the new one.

[DWilbur]

I traded in my 2001 Ford with a rod knock they gave me $2,000 for it. the sales man said they would sell it at auction. I picked up my new 2500 Chevy and 2 week later I bought it in for service had an idiot light come on. low and behold my old ford was for sale at the dealer for $9,000. I had a friend of mine go check it out and it still had the rod knock. this was in 2010.

[msgross]

Originally Posted by 77 ChevySport

OK; got my baseline. I was told to do this from another diss. board with some
very knowledgeable people: On drive pavement in 4WD "HI" take a turn under 5 MPH. If it feels like the brakes are being applied it is working. Guess what:
I tried this and it did feel like the brakes where being applied. Will talk to the dealer tomorrow. Larry

Which is what I said in post #5. I'm not very knowledgeable though. I've only owned 4WD's for 25 years, have 3 now and drove Hummer's for 20 years in the Army.

Originally Posted by old Rusty C10

Im moving this to 4WD for more responses for you

I think we've run this one into the ground, i'm unsubscribing.

OP, good luck with your purchase.

[77 ChevySport]

OK; problem solved; deal made. Thanks to all. Got good idea's from everybody. Solution was in the computer; got answer from retired Chevy/GM engineer. If anybodys cares here it is. Larry

The part number you should aim for is 12590220.

The dealer is a goof, and isn't reading their TSBs. 2002 TCCMs are HORRIBLY unreliable.


#02-04-21-006E: Inoperative 4WD/AWD Lamps, Inoperative 4WD/AWD System, DTC C0550 Set No Communication with TCCM (Reprogram Transfer Case Control Module) - (Jul 20, 2006)

Subject: Inoperative 4WD/AWD Lamps, Inoperative 4WD/AWD System, DTC C0550 Set, No Communication with TCCM (Reprogram Transfer Case Control Module)
Models: 2004 Buick Rainier
2002-2004 Chevrolet TrailBlazer
, TrailBlazer EXT
2003-2004 Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe
2002-2004 GMC Envoy, Envoy XL
2003-2004 GMC Sierra, Yukon, Yukon XL
2004 GMC Envoy XUV
2002-2004 Oldsmobile Bravada
with Electronic Shift or Active Transfer Case (RPOs NP1, NP4 or NP8)

This bulletin is being revised to add Subject information and change the labor operation. This bulletin cancels and supersedes Bulletin Number 03-04-21-006. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Numbers 02-04-21-006D and 03-04-21-006 (Section 04 -- Driveline/Axle).
Condition

Some customers may comment that the 4WD/AWD indicator lights on the selector switch do not work, or the 4WD/AWD system may be inoperative and/or the service 4WD light is illuminated. The condition is typically intermittent and always occurs at key-up. Upon investigation, the technician may find DTC C0550 set.
Cause

The Transfer Case Control Module (TCCM) has not received the wake-up call during key-up and has remained in the "sleep mode".

When the TCCM is in the "sleep mode", it will not communicate with the class II bus or the Tech 2®.
Correction

1. Try to communicate with the TCCM. If no communication, go to step 2. If communication is possible, go to step 5.
2. Remove the underhood (ATCM or TREC) TCCM fuse.
3. Wait 30 seconds.
4. Reinstall the fuse. The module should "wake up" and communicate with the Tech 2®.
5. Check for codes in the TCCM. If a C0550 is found current or in history with or without other codes, replace the module and go to step 6.
6. Reprogram the TCCM with the latest TIS software using normal SPS procedures.
7. Verify operation and that no codes are present.

Important: For the 2002 model year, the TCCM must be replaced and reprogrammed.

Even if the encoder motor is bad on the transfer case, you can't tell until you get the TCCM communicating again and controlling the system. And if you need a new one, they're under $200 on Ebay. Just make sure you get the proper one (5-pin or 7-pin connector) and I forget which one the 2002 needs. I think the 5-pin. Until the vehicle has a working TCCM, no tech tool can POSSIBLY determine the encoder motor has an issue because the encoder motor can't be tested without the TCCM running well.

Unless the encoder motor has a big hammer hit in the side of it, and they blame THAT on the TCCM.