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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Midland, TX
Posts: 1,267
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
I just rechecked some old information I had concerning rosette rivets and it appears that they were first used in 1965 on cars. I had read earlier that they started using them on trucks in 1967, but now can't find my notes on the trucks.
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1969 RS/SS Z10 Camaro Pace coupe 1972 GMC Short Step buildhttp://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post6356218 1979 Mazda RX7 1979 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 & 1979 Pontiac Trans Am 10th Anniversary 1999 Honda Valkyrie 2006 Corvette Z06 2010 BMW 650i |
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#2 | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Motor City
Posts: 9,287
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
Quote:
This is correct (I didn't want to say anything earlier). The Transition must have occurred during the '65 model year as my September of 1964 built '65 GTO has round rivets. Later cars from the same plant have rosettes.
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Chevrolet Flint Assembly 1979-1986 GM Full Size Truck Engineering 1986 - 2019 Intro from an Old Assembly Guy: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 My Pontiac story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 Chevelle intro: http://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ |
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#3 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: nephi , utah
Posts: 2,308
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
in the old days you could buy them at the dealer , thru Chevrolet , but it was like guns, weedspray and dynamite , you had to be a body shop , and register the purchase and then the application , I worked at a body shop and in the older days when you did a cab swap as in a rollover you would then have to change the id tag , when replacint the doors , you would have to have gm parts order the pressure sensitive id decal , its even harder nowdays on the semi trucks also , the door casings hasa ll data info , and it goes thru registered dealer
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#4 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Grapevine, Tx.
Posts: 2,142
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
About 20 years ago I knew a guy that owned a body shop that worked on classic mustangs.
He did top notch work. He also would remove VIN tags for a repaint and then re-rivit them on Alot of shops did this at the time I had my car being worked on and when I went to pick it up. There were alot of cars with missing drivers doors He stated that the Feds came in and took the drivers doors off of about 30 of his customers cars as evidence in a vin alteration case. They could tell the difference between original and modified rivits Lucky me mine was one of several that did not loose their drivers door with the vin tag I don't know what came out of the case but he was out of business right after that
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John Hutchison Grapevine,Texas 68 1/2 t swb 68 Mustang 69 Jaguar 71 1/2 t swb 88 Supra CompTs6m 93 Escort GT 2005 Corolla XRS |
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#5 |
Carpe manana
![]() ![]() Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eau Claire, WI
Posts: 12,481
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
And here's yet another to do due diligence on: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251767178718
Listed as a "Very nice and rare factory short-bed fleetside C10 four-wheel-drive Chevrolet." but seller doesn't explain why it has a 2wd VIN: CE149Z8051122 (Posted on another thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=653860)
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1972 K5 CST Highlander Blazer: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=708547 1972 K20 Cheyenne Super: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=528308 ![]() |
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#6 |
Carpe manana
![]() ![]() Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eau Claire, WI
Posts: 12,481
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
I almost expect to find one misrepresented 67-72 pickup on ebay whenever I look. It's mostly an issue on short bed and 4wd pickups and not confined to Ebay. Anyone purchasing a truck at auction should also be aware that auction companies do not guarantee the authenticity of the vehicle sold.
Case in point, the attached pics are from a recently advertised as a "Very Rare (1972) Big Block super Cheyenne LOADED:...". Note the 6-cy VIN and the replaced (rusty) rivets on the VIN tag. When I contacted the seller about the VIN issues he told me he didn't see a problem and neither did Mecum Auctions - asking price $20k.
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1972 K5 CST Highlander Blazer: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=708547 1972 K20 Cheyenne Super: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=528308 ![]() |
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#7 |
All about them K’s
![]() Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Land of Entrapment
Posts: 6,589
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
55-57 at a minimum have the tag spot welded to the cab 58-59 may be riveted but i can't remember for sure.
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Tyler '57 3100 http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=813888 '72 K20 Cheyenne: 5” lift, 35’s, front dana 60 blah blah blah… http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=662879 ‘69 K10 SWB: 4” lift 33”s… in a million pieces http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=805206 '98 Silverado LT K2500HD ECLB Vortec 454/4l80E: 6" lift 35x12.5x20’s |
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#8 |
One of the First
![]() Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: St. Augustine,FL.
Posts: 4,060
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
You know Pete (DeadHeadNM) - sometimes its just a group of folks that care about things like rivets, numbers, paint and/or original interior. Some folks like an older truck to drive and have fun (you know
![]() I like mine authentic, at least I can always break even on a honest note! ![]()
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DAVID PASSMORE ST AUGUSTINE ,FL ZIP 32084 '71 SWB K/10 CUSTOM DELUXE (Chili) '72 BLAZER K/5 Muscle Truck (Mule) '72 LWB K/20 CHEYENNE (Blackie) |
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#9 |
Moderator
![]() Join Date: May 2007
Location: Southern Cal
Posts: 20,117
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
It is illegal to sell or possess VIN rivets, for obvious reasons. Yet when they come up for sale here on the board people line up around the block to buy them. Here is just one example: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=442226. Six pages of sales before it was locked down by admin.
I wonder how many of those rivets actually ended up being used to affix a VIN tag to the cab it was originally removed from? Even with the "correct" rivets in place you would have no idea if there had been a cab swap, and the seller can easily hide it.
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1972 C/10 Cheyenne Super SWB. Restored, loaded, slammed. 1968 C/10 50th Anniversary LWB. Unrestored, stock, daily driver/work truck. RIP ElJay RIP 67ChevyRedneck RIP Grumpy Old Man RIP FleetsidePaul |
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#10 | |
Vintage 4x4s
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Prior Lake, MN
Posts: 4,305
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
Quote:
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67 GMC K1500 Custom- 305V6 SM420, PTO, Ram Assist, yellow (the outcast) (project period correct upgrades) 67 GMC C2500 351V6 TH400, AC, PS, PB (can't decide what to do with. Update, decided to keep and will restore ![]() 86 CHV K30 502 th400, apple red NEW 71 CHV K20 350 SM465, ochre (saved work truck) 71 CHV K20 292 SM465, white, tach, PTO, (future project) 72 CHV K20 350 350th, medium blue (project stocker) 01 CHV K2500hd crew, indigo blue ^3 dont run and the others don't see winter either '86 K30 Cummins "Fireside" thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=649649 '71 K20 "get driveable" thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=590642 '72 K20 Build Thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=493477&page=6 |
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#11 |
Moderator
![]() Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 5,775
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
Good point Scott (leddzepp), this was certainly a learning curve for me. On my 65 Plymouth Sport Fury, the vin is merely attached using stainless screws. So, I never thought there was a problem removing it to paint. I always hated the masked off look around that area. To one who does not know the legalities, serious trouble could follow. Thanks to other threads informing members of the legal issues behind this, many of our members now know. And with this said, I had my 69 Chevy Truck stolen after I had restored it with all new aftermarket parts. The thought of my vin being swapped out for another still makes me sick.
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2018 Chevy Crew Cab 2006 Impala SS 1965 Plymouth Sport Fury 1970 Chevy Longhorn
70 Longhorn CST Build Adding an AM/FM Decal |
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#12 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 330
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
Just out of curiosity, I did a quick search and really can't find anything official that says the rosette rivets are illegal. I did however find several places you could buy them.
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#13 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Midland, TX
Posts: 1,267
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
Quote:
Here's some court precedence. http://leagle.com/decision/199115515...0v.%20STEFFENS And another, paragraph (5) http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(wid...me=mcl-750-415 ![]() And another, also paragraph (5) http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publ...?Name=093-0456 Google: possession of rosette rivets legal? You'll find plenty of reading. I think the good thing that has come from this thread, is that more members are now not ignorant of the law, will know what to look for, and will ask questions when they find these altered VIN plates. How many of you have run out to your trucks and collector cars to inspect these rivets? lol.
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1969 RS/SS Z10 Camaro Pace coupe 1972 GMC Short Step buildhttp://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post6356218 1979 Mazda RX7 1979 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 & 1979 Pontiac Trans Am 10th Anniversary 1999 Honda Valkyrie 2006 Corvette Z06 2010 BMW 650i Last edited by Z10; 12-24-2014 at 09:36 PM. |
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 330
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
Good job on finding that information! My search came up mainly with people on forums saying they were illegal and rivets for sale. I did notice in the Illinois link they they had exceptions to the rules. Basically, if somebody was repairing the vehicle and reinstalling the vin plate it was acceptable to possess them.
None of my vehicles have ever had the vin plates removed. But looking at the rivets on my various vehicles, it does appear that anybody with a dremel tool and a little patience could make their own rivets. I wonder if this replacing the spid is illegal anywhere? |
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#15 |
All about them K’s
![]() Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Land of Entrapment
Posts: 6,589
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
The spid isn't a legally recognized vin. So you can swap glove box doors as much as you want and there's no issue.
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Tyler '57 3100 http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=813888 '72 K20 Cheyenne: 5” lift, 35’s, front dana 60 blah blah blah… http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=662879 ‘69 K10 SWB: 4” lift 33”s… in a million pieces http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=805206 '98 Silverado LT K2500HD ECLB Vortec 454/4l80E: 6" lift 35x12.5x20’s |
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#16 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Midland, TX
Posts: 1,267
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
Here's the long version from the NHSTA:
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1969 RS/SS Z10 Camaro Pace coupe 1972 GMC Short Step buildhttp://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=1#post6356218 1979 Mazda RX7 1979 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 & 1979 Pontiac Trans Am 10th Anniversary 1999 Honda Valkyrie 2006 Corvette Z06 2010 BMW 650i |
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#17 |
Moderator
![]() Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 5,775
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Re: Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence
Nice resource , Z10!
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2018 Chevy Crew Cab 2006 Impala SS 1965 Plymouth Sport Fury 1970 Chevy Longhorn
70 Longhorn CST Build Adding an AM/FM Decal |
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