LSx bang for your buck. Whats the best value?

[N2TRUX]

I am researching an LSx swap in a squarebody truck. I have read lots of posts and gained a lot of info. I can see that very quickly the cost to do a LSx conversion has come down due to availability of massed produced conversion items that were once only available from limited sources. Combine that with some very innovative swappers tracking down alternatives parts, the swap is becoming much more affordable.

With all that said the one variable I see is the actual cost of the engine and transmission itself. I know there are super cheap deals to be had for the expert scrounger, but lets throw out the highs and lows to find a middle ground.

If I am looking for a truck that wont be used for heavy hauling, track racing, or any other above average scenario, whats the best bang for the buck? I know the base 4.8 and 5.3 are more common, hence they are cheaper. The 6.0 is next in price and availability, followed by the much sought after 6.2.

Lets say I'm looking to net a realistic goal of 450 HP so we will use that as a benchmark. I have been told the 6.2 can do that with headers and a tune. What will it take to get a base 6.0 there? How much more to bring the 4.8 or 5.3 to that level?

Not trying to start a pissin contest over what motor is better, just real world facts on what I should be looking for. As much as I want a 6.2 they dont seem to be abundant at a fair price. I can buy a 4.8 or 5.3 for 600-700 but how much will it take to get that 450hp?

Discuss....

[Heavymetl]

450 engine horsepower? A garden variety LM7 5.3 with a ~228 duration cam should put you right about there.

Valvesprings, pushrods, cam, headers, and it'll produce.

Heck, I've tuned a bone-stock LM7 with headers and a 3000 stall in full weight Chevelle, and it was a blast to drive. Not going to set any records, but for the price/power, it's impossible to beat. Here's a video of it before we had the bugs worked out of the trans and while it still had a stock converter. I need to video it now with everything working perfectly, it's a blast for low, low bucks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kRiRzHEriU

[N2TRUX]

Good info Heavymetl. I understand 450hp @the crank is very achievable with a 5.3. My understanding is 500 engine horsepower is common with bolt ons. My question is, for average Joe Swapper (like me) would it be about the same money to buy a 6.2 that already produces 420 hp, and never have to break it open?

It appears that the 6.0 with 345hp might net more for less.

[slotard]

An advantage of the 6.2 is that all of them are aluminum. There are some aluminum versions of 6.0 and 5.3, but they're harder to find. I don't know how much 100lb or whatever extra matters to you, and I've seen claims that the iron engines can take more boost if you ever go that way.

I've been looking for the right deal, I think I'll be buying a 6.0/4L80E before too long. If you want to have fun in it I'm not sure how long a 4L60E would last for you. I've read that the 6 speeds are a little more complex to tune but reasonably durable.

A downside to the 6.2 is that many of them use displacement on demand, which you might want to get rid of (I believe it involves cam, lifters, tune so not too bad but it is something). I think the auto versions use it and the manual versions don't.

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

I am researching an LSx swap in a squarebody truck. I have read lots of posts and gained a lot of info. I can see that very quickly the cost to do a LSx conversion has come down due to availability of massed produced conversion items that were once only available from limited sources. Combine that with some very innovative swappers tracking down alternatives parts, the swap is becoming much more affordable.

Interesting perspective. I've been swapping LS engines into stuff for almost 10 years now, and I can say from experience that it's getting MORE expensive to do an LS than it used to be, due to the popularity surge.

The engine/trans combos are several hundred more than what I used to get them for...I thank the core rebuilders....since my local yard now has a $300-400 core on an LS engine that used to not be there.

Another example is intake manifolds. People used to give away and throw away LS1 intake manifolds in favor of LS6 or FAST intakes. I know guys who literally threw them away. Now they cost $150-200...for a bare intake.

Same with the fugly truck intake manifolds...I've thrown away at least 5 of them, and have given away a few more. Now they go for $50-100.

It's crazy.

[Ackattack]

Originally Posted by Wasted Income

Interesting perspective. I've been swapping LS engines into stuff for almost 10 years now, and I can say from experience that it's getting MORE expensive to do an LS than it used to be, due to the popularity surge.

The engine/trans combos are several hundred more than what I used to get them for...I thank the core rebuilders....since my local yard now has a $300-400 core on an LS engine that used to not be there.

Another example is intake manifolds. People used to give away and throw away LS1 intake manifolds in favor of LS6 or FAST intakes. I know guys who literally threw them away. Now they cost $150-200...for a bare intake.

Same with the fugly truck intake manifolds...I've thrown away at least 5 of them, and have given away a few more. Now they go for $50-100.

It's crazy.

I did a swap on my 68 back in ~2007 and could hardly give the truck intake away. I didn't pay much attention to the LS swap world for a few years and did a cummins swap. Now I'm working on another LS swap and yeah, it seems like the intake manifolds are spendy now.

I did pick up a 2007 4.8L/auto tranny (4L65E?)/ Transfer case combo at a fleet auction for $650.

I also got the 4.8L I just put into my '90 K3500 for $300, but I did have to buy a wiring harness and a few misc. bolts and gaskets for it.

[Wasted Income]

I just checked what my local yard gets for an LQ4. I have bought several from them over the years...complete take-outs with accessories, wiring, pcm, no transmission. Anywhere from 90-140k miles for right around $700-900.

They have one currently...111k miles, from a 2003. $1850, and I dont' think that includes the core charge....

Several years ago you could barely give away a 4.8L around here. Seriously. Then that stupid Big Bang article came out in HotRod and everybody suddenly thought they could make 1200 hp on a stock shortblock. lol. Then the price went up.

Same with 5.3s. When I first started swapping LS stuff, 5.3s were the black sheep of the LS family. It was an iron block "truck" engine and nobody wanted it. Everybody wanted an aluminum LS1/6/2. Now i think it's hillarious when you see guys with camaros and corvettes with boosted 5.3s that they installed in place of the aluminum deal after it came unglued.

[foamypirate]

Originally Posted by Wasted Income

I just checked what my local yard gets for an LQ4. I have bought several from them over the years...complete take-outs with accessories, wiring, pcm, no transmission. Anywhere from 90-140k miles for right around $700-900.

They have one currently...111k miles, from a 2003. $1850, and I dont' think that includes the core charge....

Several years ago you could barely give away a 4.8L around here. Seriously. Then that stupid Big Bang article came out in HotRod and everybody suddenly thought they could make 1200 hp on a stock shortblock. lol. Then the price went up.

Same with 5.3s. When I first started swapping LS stuff, 5.3s were the black sheep of the LS family. It was an iron block "truck" engine and nobody wanted it. Everybody wanted an aluminum LS1/6/2. Now i think it's hillarious when you see guys with camaros and corvettes with boosted 5.3s that they installed in place of the aluminum deal after it came unglued.

Yeah, prices have definitely gone up. Fortunately, a few places are still reasonable. I was able to get my LQ9 for $1500 with all accessories, ECM, wiring harness, etc.

[jamesjones]

Yeah, it's crazy that the prices continue to rise despite the fact that the numbers of these engines out there are insane. I bought my '05 van LQ4 in '07 for $1500 with 3k and change miles on it. I'd be looking at double the price for the same engine now.

[BB72CHEVKT]

subscribed

[aknovaman]

Thats why i have 8 engines rat holed in my garage. All part of my hoarders disease.

[Heavymetl]

In more "economically depressed" areas, like Appalachian Ohio and Kentucky, you can still buy them cheap. I bought an 05 4.8/4L80E combo for $800, and a complete 5.3 for $550. Heck a friend of mine bought a slightly burnt L33 for $500 last month. But I know in bigger cities they've raised the prices, which is just responding to market forces I suppose. There's still MILLIONS of these things on the road and not even close to a shortage.

[LockDoc]

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I'm starting to hoard them too. I just bought two 5.3's and have a line on a 6.0 I'm going to look at in the next day or two.... Check with your local body shops for engines, that's where I got the two 5.3s. He bought the trucks for the body and interior parts and sold me the 2001 & 2002 engines for $400 & $500, complete with wire looms and computers.....

I'm really liking the LS1 in my '67 Panel.

LockDoc

[slotard]

Originally Posted by jamesjones

Yeah, it's crazy that the prices continue to rise despite the fact that the numbers of these engines out there are insane. I bought my '05 van LQ4 in '07 for $1500 with 3k and change miles on it. I'd be looking at double the price for the same engine now.

I just found an 05 6.0 with unlisted mileage/model but from a van so LQ4 I think, $1000... unless mileage is outrageous I'll probably buy it.

And yeah, anything with 4 figure mileage is going to be expensive.

[cr92]

i paid 500 for entire running donor truck with 4.8 and 70k miles on it.. although i want to do a 6.0 in the future

[BR3W CITY]

You guys act like they are running out. I can go buy brand new 5.3's manifold to oil pan for under $4k. You know they still make them right? Just because the new trucks don't have them, doesn't mean GM isn't still having them made.

[solidaxel]

Before you add any HP to a stock 5.3 in your truck and your rear gear is a 3.42 you better plan on a good posi and some real expensive sticky tires.

You will be very surprised how good these engines produce torque and power with a good tune.
These engines are awesome!!
I'm working on number 3!

[homemade87]

Ok , Now that we have the prices covered . Let get back to the Hp . To get to your hp goal in a 5.3 you will have to get pretty aggressive with a cam only . Stock converter would not be the best so and aftermarket one may be in order . A 6.0 lq4 or a lq9 would make it easier . lq9 being the better choice for N/A ( flat top pistons) with a milder cam . Ls2 is more of a prem price but they are 400hp out of the box and no converter needed . Just a few bolt ons and you will exceed the 400hp goal easy .

I have a ls2 bone stock 243 stock heads , long tubes , tbss intake , lets just say above a mild cam , good exhaust that makes 381rwhp which puts me in the 450fwhp range . I did get by with a stock converter for a while but a 3200 stall made it much more fun to drive .

If you are staying N/a . The bigger cubes you go the more it will drive like stock with a milder cam if you are staying with a stock long block .

Also I see the price holding on pretty good on these engine in my area . 5.3 are hard to beat for a driver engine with some miner upgrades .

[foamypirate]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

You guys act like they are running out. I can go buy brand new 5.3's manifold to oil pan for under $4k. You know they still make them right? Just because the new trucks don't have them, doesn't mean GM isn't still having them made.

Not sure anyone said that? We were mainly commenting on how the prices are going up now that most sellers and yards are aware of the LS Swap craze...

[Tilt]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

Lets say I'm looking to net a realistic goal of 450 HP so we will use that as a benchmark. I have been told the 6.2 can do that with headers and a tune. What will it take to get a base 6.0 there?

Discuss....

I started with a stock LQ9, put a set of 799 heads, long tube headers, full 3" exhaust w/ H pipe, and a 231/235 632 cam. It made 373rwhp going through a 4L80 and 3600 stall.

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by Wasted Income

Interesting perspective. I've been swapping LS engines into stuff for almost 10 years now, and I can say from experience that it's getting MORE expensive to do an LS than it used to be, due to the popularity surge:

The first LS swap I started was about 10 years ago. I paid 3500.00 for engine, transmission, harness, ECU, and all the sensors. When I added up all the hard parts to do the conversion I was at 10k not including labor.
I do realize the LS frenzy has driven motor prices up, but all the hard parts are much more reasonable and a HUGE amount of support. Back then everything came from S&P and there were only a couple of companies that would build your harness and tune the ECU.

Originally Posted by solidaxel

Before you add any HP to a stock 5.3 in your truck and your rear gear is a 3.42 you better plan on a good posi and some real expensive sticky tires.

I plan to add a posi and a 3.42. Currently running a 3.08 and open carrier in a 12 bolt.

Originally Posted by Tilt

I started with a stock LQ9, put a set of 799 heads, long tube headers, full 3" exhaust w/ H pipe, and a 231/235 632 cam. It made 373rwhp going through a 4L80 and 3600 stall.

This is what I'm looking for. If I recall, the standard "guesstimate" of parasitic drive line loss of 20% that puts you at 447 +/- at the crank. Thats pretty close to the 450hp goal.

With that fact, how much did you spend on heads, cam, etc above the stock install?

What I'm after here is this. If its going to cost less to by an LQ9, but I have to bolt on heads, cam, and 3" exhaust to get 450 HP, how close will that come to the average cost of a 6.2?

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by homemade87

Ok , Now that we have the prices covered . Let get back to the Hp . To get to your hp goal in a 5.3 you will have to get pretty aggressive with a cam only . Stock converter would not be the best so and aftermarket one may be in order . A 6.0 lq4 or a lq9 would make it easier . lq9 being the better choice for N/A ( flat top pistons) with a milder cam . Ls2 is more of a prem price but they are 400hp out of the box and no converter needed . Just a few bolt ons and you will exceed the 400hp goal easy .

I have a ls2 bone stock 243 stock heads , long tubes , tbss intake , lets just say above a mild cam , good exhaust that makes 381rwhp which puts me in the 450fwhp range . I did get by with a stock converter for a while but a 3200 stall made it much more fun to drive .

If you are staying N/a . The bigger cubes you go the more it will drive like stock with a milder cam if you are staying with a stock long block .

Also I see the price holding on pretty good on these engine in my area . 5.3 are hard to beat for a driver engine with some miner upgrades .

This is the meat of my query. I want a swap to be as plug and play as possible. I expect to have some sort of headers and an upgraded exhaust, and a performance tune. I dont really want to get involved in head and came swaps if I can achieve the 450 goal with out them.

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

The first LS swap I started was about 10 years ago. I paid 3500.00 for engine, transmission, harness, ECU, and all the sensors. When I added up all the hard parts to do the conversion I was at 10k not including labor.
I do realize the LS frenzy has driven motor prices up, but all the hard parts are much more reasonable and a HUGE amount of support. Back then everything came from S&P and there were only a couple of companies that would build your harness and tune the ECU.

Fair enough. What hard parts are you referring to? Engine mounts? Exhaust?

I guess it's always been fairly cheap on my end, since I have fabbed my own mounts, exhaust, etc most of the time, and did the harnesses and tuning myself. I used to have a spreadsheet, but if I recall, the cost to do my first LS swap into my '69 back in the day was around $3000-4000, including the engine and everything. That doesn't include the $700 for EFI-Live, but I don't count that because it has paid for itself many times over.

It's going to be impossible to get to 450 hp without either messing with the heads or cam. There are gains to be made with longtubes and a tune, but unless you're spraying it with some giggle gas, it's not gonna happen without at least a cam swap.

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

You guys act like they are running out. I can go buy brand new 5.3's manifold to oil pan for under $4k. You know they still make them right? Just because the new trucks don't have them, doesn't mean GM isn't still having them made.

Lets see, $400 in the left hand for the used engine and $4000 in the right hand for the new engine. I know it's Apples to Oranges and I'm not mocking you, but I can build the rest of my truck for the difference..... Everybody has their preferences but I'm perfectly happy with the used engines.

I know you are just making a point about buying them up and the above is just my reasoning for buying good used ones when I see them for a decent price..

LockDoc

[solidaxel]

Can you really hook up 450HP with a pick up?