Need some help with tuning.

[clinebarger]

Need some help with my LS swapped Camaro (Thanks Brew City for the PM's!!)

When I built the car a year ago, I sent the PCM off to activate the Cooling Fans, Switch the A/C Requeast from Serial to 12vdc (Analog), Correct my Speedometer, & Correct the Fuel Gage.

Back Story.....This 2004 Silverado P59 5.3L/4L60E PCM was in my LS swapped '85 Suburban, It already had the normal swap stuff done (Turn off the rear O2s, VATS, etc)

When I got the PCM back, The A/C request did not work, Gas Gage reads backwards, Service Vehicle Light on (NOT Service Engine Light), LTFT & STFT reading full positive (MAF scaled wrong?), And a Generator "F" terminal code.

Sent the PCM back.....
He fixed the Fuel Trim errors & the F Terminal code, But not anything else.
I can live with the Fuel Gage, & Service Vehicle light & it was Winter so I didn't mess with the A/C until 2 weeks ago.....Still No A/C Request....No big deal I thought, I will jump the A/C relay and Charge the System.

That is when I found out the Cooling Fans will not come with A/C head pressure. Ran it up to 300psi.....No Low or High speed fan operation, The Refrigerant Pressure Sensor is reading correctly on my Tech 2.
The Cooling Fans operate normally off ECT.

Here are the settings in the tune.....

[BR3W CITY]

What fuel sending unit is this running Cline? On a P59 If you go to the Fuel System section and take a look at the "General" section (might be the only section). It should have "Fuel Tank/Guage" and then a series of boxes.

GM expects a ~240ohm sender range for the late models, so if your tank volume is different than what it expects, the sender isn't hitting its voltage@resistances where the ECM thinks. The Camaro tank would have a different default tank volume vs a truck if you started from the truck base tune.

The Service Vehicle light is probably being thrown by a false reporting DTC. Take a look at your master DTC list in the engine diagnostic tab, see how of the MIL/Services codes are set. You may need to change one to "not report"

I'll look over more tomorrow, im sleepy now.

[clinebarger]

Thanks Brew.....

Fuel Gage/Sender, My Sender puts out 40-ohms at Empty & 240-ohms at Full, A '04 GMT800 Sender put out 240-ohms at Empty & 40-ohms at Full....Verified both with a Ohm Meter.
I don't think the Volume differences are causing my particular issue, Though it might read more accurately if I changed volumes to the correct capacity.

I downloaded a Stock 2001 Camaro 3.8L/4L60E tune out of the HPT repository....The Fuel System section is blank....No help, Though I will get the original V6 PCM out of my car from work tomorrow, Read it & see if I can get some comparative info.

I also downloaded a 2001 Camaro LS1/4L60E tune out of the repository, No difference other than the Primary Volumes. V8 F-body could be backward from a V6......But not 100% sure.

What does the Maximum & Minimum Sender A/D mean?? Wondering if I can switch the values & correct my issue??

My 2004 PCM....


2001 LS1 from the repository....

[ls1nova71]

I'm not going to be of a lot of help, but I am pretty sure the switching of the A/C request from serial to analog will only work on certain PCM's. I'm going to go on a hunch that your PCM service number is 12586242? If that's the case, it likely doesn't have the capability to run a 12v request, but if you can find a 12586243 it should work. I have been struggling with this myself and this is what I have found out. I sent a couple of PCM's to my tuner to verify, but have not got them back yet to know for sure, but I'm reasonably sure this is the fix.

[clinebarger]

I scanned all modules with my Tech II, No codes or Pending codes, I can remove the Service Vehicle Bulb from the Cluster, No biggie on that.

The Main issue is my Fans not responding to A/C Pressure, Here in North Texas....A/C is a necessity in the summer months, Not so much due to the 100+ degree temperatures, It's the high humidity, I work all day in the heat & humidity, I'm not going too drive home in rush hour traffic & be down right miserable in a Black car.

I have read countless threads on this, Some state that it is a Software vs Hardware issue in P59 PCM's, As in you can have a Analog A/C request OR Cooling fans that work off A/C pressure.....But not both? If I had one of those....It would confirm this theory, But I have neither!

The guy that did the tuning said he installed a Express Van OS. I wonder if that is what's screwing me??
I am considering buying a 2005/2006 P59 that is set-up for factory electric fans & not worry about A/C request, I can get any PCM I want for $40.

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by ls1nova71

I'm not going to be of a lot of help, but I am pretty sure the switching of the A/C request from serial to analog will only work on certain PCM's. I'm going to go on a hunch that your PCM service number is 12586242? If that's the case, it likely doesn't have the capability to run a 12v request, but if you can find a 12586243 it should work. I have been struggling with this myself and this is what I have found out. I sent a couple of PCM's to my tuner to verify, but have not got them back yet to know for sure, but I'm reasonably sure this is the fix.

That is correct, Service# 12586242.

With a 12586243, Will my fans work off A/C head pressure?

[BR3W CITY]

The A/D settings are a volumetric calc for the min/max sender resistance...and I'm honestly lacking the mathematical prowess to explain it. A/D counts are a unit of measurement or "hits" in a voltage range. So if a sensor uses a voltage sweep of 0-5v, its a A/D count range of 0-1024 (I'm sure there is a divisive reason why, but since it yields 204.8 counts/volt, I can't give you a logical reason).


Modifying that is like using a variable pot to modify voltages for fuel cut on old FI cars.
The A/D count of 20 is roughly 1/10 of a Volt, sweeping to 7/10 of a Volt. I suppose you COULD flip them, and see what happens. Potentially you could also open the Level VS Volume table and flip the first and last cells, then use "Interpolate" to fill the scale in reverse.

A/D count is used about 50 times once your deep enough in a few tables.

[Hart_Rod]

Service vehicle light triggered by BCM? SRS?

http://ls1tech.com/forums/new-ls1-ow...ght-cause.html

http://ls1tech.com/forums/western-me...cle-light.html


Try inverting your numbers in the fuel gauge table and see if that works.

Can you send me a copy of your Tune? robhartley@aol.com

[ls1nova71]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

That is correct, Service# 12586242.

With a 12586243, Will my fans work off A/C head pressure?

I know that fans can be enabled, but I'm not sure the fans will work with head pressure since trucks and vans that year didn't have electric fans. Probably the easiest way to fix most of your problems would be to wire it like a 99-02 Camaro and use a 411 PCM and OS, but that would require running a DBC throttle body.

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by Hart_Rod

Service vehicle light triggered by BCM? SRS?

Try inverting your numbers in the fuel gauge table and see if that works.

Can you send me a copy of your Tune? robhartley@aol.com

No codes in any of the modules. Well I have a couple now that I changed the PCM.
I reversed the Output PWM table, (I have a full tank right now) And it reads Full now instead of Empty!!! I will keep an eye on it to make SURE its correct.

Originally Posted by ls1nova71

I know that fans can be enabled, but I'm not sure the fans will work with head pressure since trucks and vans that year didn't have electric fans. Probably the easiest way to fix most of your problems would be to wire it like a 99-02 Camaro and use a 411 PCM and OS, but that would require running a DBC throttle body.

Knowing what I know now.....I would have done that!!! I was told this would work...... My car has no hole for a throttle cable as it was already DBW, My LS2 intake doesnt have bolt holes for the bracket.

[clinebarger]

Installed a 2005 LM7/4L60E PCM service# 12589463, Fans now work with A/C Head Pressure. No luck on the A/C request, Jumped the relay too charge the A/C.

Idle's weird (rolling) with no load, Idles fine with the Compressor engaged (Park & drive), Or just in drive.

Codes P0053 & P0059, Heater Resistance Bank 1 & 2, These 2 descriptors are not even listed on my 2004 PCM, Set them too No Error Reported?

[BR3W CITY]

There is a box called "Rolling idle RPM" on the idle tab. You have the entire table 0'd out.

As for the 02 codes; my DTC list doesn't even show them, and I have an 04 P59 ECM. When you idle, are you getting seemingly normal function from the 02s? If they are 0, or very high, then you might actually have an issue with the sensor. 650ish would be pretty normal. Its a heater circuit code, so its possible the sensor function is actually correct, but the heater circuit is operating at a resistance outside what the circuit is expecting. Sometimes 3rd party 02 sensors can have that happen.

Are you using stock sensors, or the Bosch ones most harness makers use?

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

There is a box called "Rolling idle RPM" on the idle tab. You have the entire table 0'd out.

As for the 02 codes; my DTC list doesn't even show them, and I have an 04 P59 ECM. When you idle, are you getting seemingly normal function from the 02s? If they are 0, or very high, then you might actually have an issue with the sensor. 650ish would be pretty normal. Its a heater circuit code, so its possible the sensor function is actually correct, but the heater circuit is operating at a resistance outside what the circuit is expecting. Sometimes 3rd party 02 sensors can have that happen.

Are you using stock sensors, or the Bosch ones most harness makers use?

Are you looking at the 2005 PCM/Tune?

Those DTC's do not show up on my 2004 PCM either, But are in the 2005 PCM (Engine Diag) & set too Mil On Second Error.

They are switching like normal, LTFT & STFT are +/- 3% The O2's are GM (Denso Made) from the dealer.

[BR3W CITY]

Ya I was comparing your 05 p59 to my 04 p59. That code doesn't show up on my p01 ecm either.


I scanned the tune for a 2008 F1x Corvette, and that code does show up, we have it set to report on second error.

[boostedc10]

Chris let me know if you need anything from my side. Looks like Hart and Brew are involved but if you want I can take a look too. Email it to me if you want at Brandon.radloff@gmail.com

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

Ya I was comparing your 05 p59 to my 04 p59. That code doesn't show up on my p01 ecm either.


I scanned the tune for a 2008 F1x Corvette, and that code does show up, we have it set to report on second error.

From what I can tell, The O2's are wired the same between '04 & '05, & they both use the same Denso Sensors.

Code Info.....
CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
The heated oxygen sensor (HO2S) must reach operating temperature to provide an accurate voltage signal. A heating element inside the HO2S minimizes the time required for the sensor to reach operating temperature. Voltage is provided to the heater by the ignition 1 voltage circuit through a fuse. With the engine running, ground is provided to the heater by the HO2S heater low control circuit, through a low side driver within the powertrain control module (PCM). The PCM commands the heater ON or OFF to maintain a specific HO2S operating temperature range. The PCM determines the temperature by measuring the current flow through the heater. When the heater is in the ON state, the PCM will pulse the heater OFF for a duration of 50 ms , once per second. When the heater is in the OFF state, the PCM will pulse the heater ON for a duration of 50 ms , once per second. The PCM calculates the heater resistance on a cold start. This diagnostic will only run once per ignition cycle. If the PCM detects that the heater calculated resistance is not within an expected range, DTC P0053 sets for HO2S bank 1 sensor 1, or DTC P0059 sets for HO2S bank 2 sensor 1.

DTC DESCRIPTORS
DTC P0053 HO2S Heater Resistance Bank 1 Sensor 1
DTC P0059 HO2S Heater Resistance Bank 2 Sensor 1

CONDITIONS FOR RUNNING THE DTC
DTCs P0112, P0113, P0116, P0117, P0118, P0128, P2610 are not set.
The ignition is OFF for more than 10 hours .
The ECT Sensor parameter is between -30°C and +45°C (-22°F and +113°F) at engine start-up.
The ECT Sensor parameter minus the IAT Sensor parameter is less than 8°C (14°F) at engine start-up.The engine is started.

CONDITIONS FOR SETTING THE DTC
The PCM detects that the affected HO2S heater calculated resistance is not within an expected range at engine start-up for 1 second .

Sounds like they are emission control DTC's, I'm running Mid length headers with no converters, I'm guessing this could effect the O2 warm up times??

What do you think Brew? Here's the '05 P59 DTC list.....

Originally Posted by boostedc10

Chris let me know if you need anything from my side. Looks like Hart and Brew are involved but if you want I can take a look too. Email it to me if you want at Brandon.radloff@gmail.com

Sure, Ill send it too you later, Thanks Brandon!

[BR3W CITY]

This is dumb but do your margins/fonts auto-scale? My damn version of VCM Suite 3.0 doesn't scale the window properly on my desktop and I have 0 idea why.

Since its both sensors, I'm mostly assuming that bad wiring or melted wires etc aren't at fault (unless something in the main branch of the harness was goofy. I have heard of some issues regarding the grounding on the heater circuit though. Seems like the 02's might actually be grounding through the metal on metal connection to the headers...its plausible that a thick non-metallic exhaust gasket could actually isolate them. You could try tapping the pin straight to body ground and see if the code goes away.

You can also get the truck hot, erase the codes, and then hot start and see if they come back on. Already-hot sensors won't throw a heater code unless the sensor or wiring is messed up, or another false trigger exists.

[clinebarger]

Thanks Brew!! I got it figured out, Started the car Cold (Cold being relative), While watching O2 data on the Tech 2, The Sensor start switching & Closed Loop is obtained way too fast for non operational Heaters, Turn off engine, Try to force O2 Heaters "on" with the scanner, No Go! (Parameter out of Range, Test Aborted)

WTF??, I pulled the connectors off the PCM, No wires in the Heater Control Pins 72 & 74 on C2, Unplugged a O2........Turns out the Low side of the Heater Circuits are Case Grounded to the engine.

So my O2 heaters are "On" all the time & are not PCM controlled per the way my Custom Harness is wired. And also the reason my '04 didn't throw codes (I bet the O2 Heater "Circuit Codes" are turned "Off")......I just checked, Both P0135 & P0155 are set too No Error.

Am I correct in assuming I can just turn the resistance codes "Off"?, IIRC.....P01 PCM's didn't have heater control circuits & were Case Grounded?

As for Fonts & Auto Scaling......I have no idea what your talking about, I am not computer savvy, Everytime I get half used to one OS (Widows 7), I buy a new machine & have too start over (Windows 10), But my Version 3.0 works very well on my new HP Laptop after my teenage daughter installed the Drivers for me, Never installed Hptuners on my old HP Desktop.

I can't thank you enough for the help Brew!

[boostedc10]

Glad you got it figured out and Brew was able to help Chris.

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by boostedc10

Glad you got it figured out and Brew was able to help Chris.

I think I will set them too No Error Reported, Unless anyone has reasons/theories why I shouldn't?

Back too the A/C Request issue....My conclusion as of right now is....No P59 ECM has the capability too take a 12vdc request & operate the Fans off Head Pressure (Transducer).
My plan is to wire up a relay under the dash to reverse the polarity of the 12vdc out of the control head & send a ground directly too the A/C Clutch Relay like the picture. I understand that there will be NO over-pressure protection in place, But a risk I'm willing too take.

[BR3W CITY]

Chris, setting the errors to "Not Report" is what you want IMO. It would be ok to set them to OFF, but I would rather have them still pop up under scan, just not trigger the light. "Not Report" will still have it log the code for error reporting, but you won't get the "nagging" issue over it. There is no danger in case grounding, you may shorten the life of the sensor by a little, only because (like a lightbulb) the intentional short circuit will be ON all the time.

The 411 pcm cars use the transducer, the trucks ran off a switch not a sensor. Are you running the truck pressure switch, or the actual pressure sensor? We might have a solution yet.

[boostedc10]

Brew is right, you can just set them to not report or shut them off. Typically you will still get a code for it not switching if it fails anyway.

As for your AC question, I am assuming you are running a binary switch not a trinary correct?

[clinebarger]

I'm running the Stock 5-Volt Pressure Transducer that was already on the car (2001 Camaro), No low pressure Binary on these cars (Variable Displacement Compressor)

Too throw another wrench in the works, This car has to pass State Emission Testing......
I'm allowed 1 Not Ready & NO codes set too pass.

[BR3W CITY]

OK, so I talked to my partner and he had 2 options for ya;
1. Switch the transducer for the truck switch and use the control that exists.
2. Repin that pressure transducer into an unused header pin and use an open PID to control it. I'd have to look at what isn't being used, but there are 2-3 that might be able to be made to work.

Emissions? You dun f*cked er bud.

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

OK, so I talked to my partner and he had 2 options for ya;
1. Switch the transducer for the truck switch and use the control that exists.
2. Repin that pressure transducer into an unused header pin and use an open PID to control it. I'd have to look at what isn't being used, but there are 2-3 that might be able to be made to work.

Emissions? You dun f*cked er bud.

Thanks Brew, I think I've confused you bud....My Fault.

The 2005 PCM I swapped in works the Fans off Transducer feedback just fine, The PCM not accepting a 12vdc A/C request is the problem.

On a 2005 GMT800, The only A/C switch wired too the PCM is the same 5-volt Transducer I already have, The Low Pressure Cycling switch is wired to the Control Head, With the pressure switch closed & A/C switch "On", The GMT800 Control Head sends an A/C request through the Class 2 Serial Data Bus.
I have thought of wiring in a Manual GMT800 Control Head, Reversing the polarity on the 12vdc output on my F-Body Control Head & feeding that into the Low Pressure Switch input on the GMT800 Control Head & have it request A/C over the Serial Data Bus.....Just not sure it will actually work.



If I can get the 02's Ready.....I'll be fine, I have a functional EVAP, The Converter can remain Not Ready, I have 'til the end of September too figure it out....I had it inspected before I pulled the 3.8L for this reason.