Mounting a stock truck air box

[LeesTruk]

A fellow member asked how I mounted a stock Chevy air box in my C10, so here's some pic's. My truck is not a show piece and does have some rust, although some prefer to call it patina. I trimmed the side of the stock battery tray to allow for fitment of the box, and to allow the inlet of the box to be pressed against the opening in the inner fender structure. I fastened a piece of aluminum angle to the tray to act as a mounting shelf and a place to fasten the box to the tray. The "acordian" rubber tube will stretch, to allow for difference in distance from the throttle body to the MAF sensor

[solidaxel]

Is the location of your MAF is the "best" location for accurate readings

[LeesTruk]

I'm not gonna argue with the GM engineers, 'cause that's where they put it when they designed the system

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by LeesTruk

I'm not gonna argue with the GM engineers, 'cause that's where they put it when they designed the system

Nicely done.

I'm the guy that designed that system, for the GMT800 models. Thanks for not arguing (believe me, it happens!).

And - yes - the MAF is in the right spot.



K

[solidaxel]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Nicely done.

I'm the guy that designed that system, for the GMT800 model.

And - yes - the MAF is in the right spot.



K

Thank You Sir.........confirmed!

[Steve Cole]

Wow, where else but this forum can you have your questions answered straight from the guy that designed the system!!

Hey Keith, I have a question-

What is this reservoir looking thing for? Can it be cut off with no adverse effect?
This is from a truck motor. Thanks!

[Keith Seymore]

It's a helmholz resonator.

It's a tuner to decrease air induction noise coming backwards out of the throttle body. It doesn't affect flow, so it doesn't really hurt anything performance wise. If you were to remove it you shouldn't notice anything except more of a "flipped air cleaner lid" sound at certain engine rpms.

We also used a "quarter wave tube" to attack another induction frequency. Similar deal, except the helmolz has a little more broad effect and the quarter wave tube is a bit more focused. Basically you use whichever is easier to package.

I wasn't really a very good engine induction system engineer from a noise/vibration standpoint. My bosses would say "...hear that? You gotta fix that."

I'd say: "Fix it? I LIKE it!!"



K

[solidaxel]

Did your boss come from Cadillac !!!
I'm with you on the Induction sound !

[Steve Cole]

Wow! Thanks! You are a great resource!

[LeesTruk]

Thanks for your input/expertise, Mr. Seymore. Getting feedback from an engineer/designer, is kinda like being "photo bombed" by a celebrity. It's nice that you can mingle with us blue collar people and participate in what we do with what you've created

BTW, did you find that helmholz resonator on the same shelf as the flux capacitor?

[Keith Seymore]

Thanks, guys -

Originally Posted by LeesTruk

BTW, did you find that helmholz resonator on the same shelf as the flux capacitor?

It was right there behind the muffler bearings...

(lol)

[Steve Cole]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

It's a helmholz resonator.

It's a tuner to decrease air induction noise coming backwards out of the throttle body. It doesn't affect flow, so it doesn't really hurt anything performance wise. If you were to remove it you shouldn't notice anything except more of a "flipped air cleaner lid" sound at certain engine rpms.

We also used a "quarter wave tube" to attack another induction frequency. Similar deal, except the helmolz has a little more broad effect and the quarter wave tube is a bit more focused. Basically you use whichever is easier to package.

I wasn't really a very good engine induction system engineer from a noise/vibration standpoint. My bosses would say "...hear that? You gotta fix that."

I'd say: "Fix it? I LIKE it!!"



K

Hey Keith, In this pic you posted, (which appears to be a 67-72 truck) where does the air box get the intake air? In this setup, the intake openings would be up against the passenger fender right? There are no cutouts there like on the square body trucks. Is the air box just slightly away from the fender, and if so, is that enough air volume?

Thanks!

[72MARIO]

This is what I did it AIT tempatures are much cooler than my other truck with a open air element

[Steve Cole]

Keith,

I was considering re-making the lower part of the airbox and placing the intake on the side, facing the grill openings. The top half of the box would remain the same. The intake would be in the area shown in red on the pic. Would this be an acceptable way to direct the airflow? Thanks!

[Steve Cole]

Originally Posted by 72MARIO

This is what I did it AIT tempatures are much cooler than my other truck with a open air element

Hey Mario,

Did you just mount the box away from the fender to allow air to enter? Thanks.

[Daaaanz67]

LOL that’s my motor in that picture. Funny someone used that must mean I did something right. I took the cove that has two oval opening off the box and it’s open you can see the filter. It gets its air fro the front corner of fender area. Never had a problem with air temp. I wii be making something to cover the opening later.

[ls1nova71]

On my 67-72's I usually cut a hole in the fender that the plastic piece with the foam on it buts up to, so it looks decent. But on my cammed Blazer I figured I needed cooler air so I cut a hole in the bottom of the box, the mounting plate and the core support. There is a 90* pvc elbow that connects them. Works great and isn't really seen unless you really look for it.

[Steve Cole]

Originally Posted by ls1nova71

On my 67-72's I usually cut a hole in the fender that the plastic piece with the foam on it buts up to, so it looks decent. But on my cammed Blazer I figured I needed cooler air so I cut a hole in the bottom of the box, the mounting plate and the core support. There is a 90* pvc elbow that connects them. Works great and isn't really seen unless you really look for it.

Now that looks nice! Is that a stock style battery tray? It looks different from mine. I'm curious as to how you "flanged" the bottom of the box.

[ls1nova71]

Originally Posted by Steve Cole

Now that looks nice! Is that a stock style battery tray? It looks different from mine. I'm curious as to how you "flanged" the bottom of the box.

It's not a battery tray, it's the factory air box mounting plate from the donor truck. The box has tabs on it, one slides into the slot towards the fender and the other two pop into the two rubber grommits.

[Steve Cole]

Originally Posted by ls1nova71

It's not a battery tray, it's the factory air box mounting plate from the donor truck. The box has tabs on it, one slides into the slot towards the fender and the other two pop into the two rubber grommits.

Dang, one more thing I should have kept from the donor truck!

[Andy4639]

My cold air box from a 90's caddy. Pretty simple to.
I got less than $20.00 bucks in the parts except the filter.

1. 90 model Elderado air box.
2. 2-4" couplings from Lowes
3. 1- 4" Ninety from Lowes

First closed off the factory opening and sealed it. Then drilled 4" hole in bottom of box. Drilled 4" hole in radiators support. Put one coupling inside the box then the ninety. Placed the other coupling in hole of support and attached to ninety. Done I did add a small flat bar of aluminium to mount the box with.

[Keith Seymore]

Wow! You guys have been busy since I was last here -

Originally Posted by Steve Cole

Keith,

I was considering re-making the lower part of the airbox and placing the intake on the side, facing the grill openings. The top half of the box would remain the same. The intake would be in the area shown in red on the pic. Would this be an acceptable way to direct the airflow? Thanks!

Yes - that would work. The key is to have the inlet on the "dirty side" of the filter (below the filter).

Originally Posted by Daaaanz67

LOL that’s my motor in that picture. Funny someone used that must mean I did something right. I took the cove that has two oval opening off the box and it’s open you can see the filter. It gets its air fro the front corner of fender area. Never had a problem with air temp. I wii be making something to cover the opening later.

Thanks for letting me use your picture . I should find one in its original environment but yours shows the two quarter wave tuners and the long upper radiator hose.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Steve Cole

Now that looks nice! Is that a stock style battery tray? It looks different from mine. I'm curious as to how you "flanged" the bottom of the box.

Originally Posted by ls1nova71

It's not a battery tray, it's the factory air box mounting plate from the donor truck. The box has tabs on it, one slides into the slot towards the fender and the other two pop into the two rubber grommits.

There's a little bit of a story to that tray design.

We originally wanted to drop straight down into three grommets but we couldn't when we added the snorkels off to the side because they wouldn't clear the fender catwalk during loading.

We decided to create a "glide path", where the box would be moved outboard and down, engaging the Christmas tree type fastener in the groove and then jamming the box home into the grommets.

The air box design is still in use, even on the project I am currently working on. The other day I heard the engine air induction engineer on our program say "...I don't know why the tray is designed like that".

I spun around in my chair and said "I know EXACTLY why it is designed like that!" and proceeded to tell him the story.

K

[Keith Seymore]

I've posted this before, but a couple more thoughts relative to the system architecture:

Recall the (new for) 1996 system was a cylindrical element mounted above the wheelhouse. This was manufactured by Donaldson Co, makers of industrial and agricultural filters, and was very good for dust/dirt retention but not very good for flow restriction. It was also pretty good for protection against water ingestion due to the convoluted path through the fender (water being the mortal enemy of an internal combustion engine).

For '98 we had very stringent restriction requirements: no more than 1"Hg at maximum flow, from ambient air inlet to throttle body (original requirement from GM Powertrain: 1"Hg from ambient air to the intake valve - which is ridiculous and which we on the platform side could not control. We managed to renegotiate that). The new system was sourced to Delphi (formerly AC or AC Spark Plug in Flint) and we knew we needed a flat panel to meet the flow, as well as moving to the right front corner in order to minimize any bends and/or the overall length of the run.

The only problem: that's where the primary battery was.

After much deliberation the Vehicle Chief Engineer drug me and the battery guy into a meeting and we hashed it out. The beauty of air induction design is that you can create rapid prototype parts and actually flow test them - so - I had data; battery guy didn't. The Chief Engineer ruled: "Seymore - you get the RF corner. Schaule - find another spot for your battery".

So we ended up with a very good flowing system which also did a good job getting cool air in and keeping water out. The system was sized for the largest gas engine (L18 = 272 g/s flow) and the diesel, so it is more than adequate (oversized) for the small block engines.

We also added a flow restriction gage as a nice feature and, as a result, we screwed the lid down on the box to try to keep people from fooling with it (ie, use the gage to determine when the element needs changing).

K

[solidaxel]

So where did all the cold air people come from in the aftermarket?
Sounds like they are going backwards with their design