Make it handle

[tech@scottshotrods]

the Ridetech coil over shocks and the non are two different shocks as of right now but there is going to be or may have already been a transition to the new design, which is manufactured by a GREAT company... The new shocks are damn near bullit proof monotube design and will come in non adjustable, single for now and soon to be dual

[robnolimit]

J-rod, Welcome aboard. Your question is a common one. At the moment, if you want a full 'kit', from one manufacturer, I'd say that the Hotchkis TVS kit is it. But it comes with a price. But it does deliver. There are many ways to skin the cat here. First, How low do you want it?, What size wheel/tire combo?, Do you want to go air-ride? How much horsepower? Stick or auto? Most guys will go one step at a time, budget permitting, and piece the chassis together. If you use quality components, you can end up with a really nice truck. We are currently building a shop/test truck, a 72 sb, in the 67-72 forum (No Limit 72) Our plan is to do a step-by-step build, and test along the way at our local roadcoarse. I'm also working on a parts list to help guys piece together something that works. Give me some more info, and I'll give you some better feedback.

[J-Rod#7]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

J-rod, Welcome aboard. Your question is a common one. At the moment, if you want a full 'kit', from one manufacturer, I'd say that the Hotchkis TVS kit is it. But it comes with a price. But it does deliver. There are many ways to skin the cat here. First, How low do you want it?, What size wheel/tire combo?, Do you want to go air-ride? How much horsepower? Stick or auto? Most guys will go one step at a time, budget permitting, and piece the chassis together. If you use quality components, you can end up with a really nice truck. We are currently building a shop/test truck, a 72 sb, in the 67-72 forum (No Limit 72) Our plan is to do a step-by-step build, and test along the way at our local roadcoarse. I'm also working on a parts list to help guys piece together something that works. Give me some more info, and I'll give you some better feedback.

Thank you for responding...yea, 4 to 5 grand is quite a bit for a suspension kit.
I don't want it to low, i just want the stance to look good while being close to tires(19"mht wheels w/ToyoRA1), but handling performance is my #1 concern. I'm not trying to go air ride cause i usually involve that with slamming or towing. I'm also trying to pack some serious horses under the hood(600hp+) with a manual transmission.
Thanks again for the much needed advice!!!

[skoffice]

Who is making Ridetech's shocks now? Is there an ETA for the dual adjustable coilover version? I am setting my friend's suspension up pretty soon and was looking at QA1's but would be open to checking out their shocks as well. Also are they available with spherical bearing ends?
Thanks

[PBFAB.COM]

Originally Posted by skoffice

Who is making Ridetech's shocks now? Is there an ETA for the dual adjustable coilover version? I am setting my friend's suspension up pretty soon and was looking at QA1's but would be open to checking out their shocks as well. Also are they available with spherical bearing ends?
Thanks

RideTech is using a mono-tube design that FOX is helping them manufacture. It's a quality piece. They already offer it in a dual adjustable version, and they come standard with the spherical bearing ends. They are readily available. Give Rob a call at NoLimit... they sell RideTech compnents and can get them for you.

[tech@scottshotrods]

The shocks Air Ride/ Ridetech are Fox shocks the same they are using on OEM off road vehicles like the Ford SVT Raptor they are only offered non adjustable, single adjustable and triple adjustable ( dual is not an option)which has regular rebound, hi and low compression adjustability... If you have any questions regarding these coil overs or shocks I was at air ride still while testing and prototyping was going on and was involved in all the training courses from hyperco and fox...

[skoffice]

Awesome thanks for the info guys! That's pretty comforting knowing that Fox is making them.

I see why you chose them Nate. Is your coilover front suspension set in stone yet or is it still in the works?

Jon, what are the advantages of the Hyperco springs vs. say, Eibach's?

[tech@scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by skoffice

Awesome thanks for the info guys! That's pretty comforting knowing that Fox is making them.

I see why you chose them Nate. Is your coilover front suspension set in stone yet or is it still in the works?

Jon, what are the advantages of the Hyperco springs vs. say, Eibach's?

we offer them on our bolt in ifs as well as an upgrade due to the expense there pricey... 650.00 a pair for the single adj.
No to your question plain and simple why air ride/ ridetech went with the hyperco coil vs others is the material hyperco uses they use some of the highest grade material/ tensil strength. This means the coil will retain its height even after years of use... I will give you more tech info in the am when im at my computer I could be wrong but your standard coil are rated between 130,000- 150,000 where as the hyperco coil is rated around the 180,000 range
Posted via Mobile Device

[skoffice]

Originally Posted by jon@scottshotrods

we offer them on our bolt in ifs as well as an upgrade due to the expense there pricey... 650.00 a pair for the single adj.
No to your question plain and simple why air ride/ ridetech went with the hyperco coil vs others is the material hyperco uses they use some of the highest grade material/ tensil strength. This means the coil will retain its height even after years of use... I will give you more tech info in the am when im at my computer I could be wrong but your standard coil are rated between 130,000- 150,000 where as the hyperco coil is rated around the 180,000 range
Posted via Mobile Device

That's a little bit pricy but you usually get what you pay for, and they look like they were thought out pretty well.
Really? Years? That's pretty impressive. I come from an off roading background and I've seen Eibach and even King coils "settle" in height, in as little as a week. Granted they get worked much harder but in a racing application that could make a HUGE difference.

[tech@scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by skoffice

That's a little bit pricy but you usually get what you pay for, and they look like they were thought out pretty well.
Really? Years? That's pretty impressive. I come from an off roading background and I've seen Eibach and even King coils "settle" in height, in as little as a week. Granted they get worked much harder but in a racing application that could make a HUGE difference.

the hyperco engineer that headed the coarse told us you could take the coil of down the road 5yrs plus and measure and maybe see a 1/4" difference... yeah of coarse thats not the upgrade charge rather the retail price the shock bodies them selves are impact forged in which they take a aluminum slug heat it to 600 degrees then the impact comes down and forges the shock body keeping the shock body 1 piece this process is so accurate there is no machine work done on the inside of the shock body the only machining is on the threads and lower mount pretty impressive!!!!

[robnolimit]

As to the performance of the shocks, we'll find out soon. This saturday I'm going out to a Playday with the PalmSprings Corvette club. I was invited to go and Tech, and that lets me run with them. I ran there coarse last year, so I have comparable times. I put the new Ride-Tech shocks on last night, drove it around and they feel great. Now lets get back to topic of handling & steering systems.

[SBTork]

What advantage, other than eliminate deflection, do the solid tie rod end sleeves/adjusters hold over stock? Something like.....http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspen...ster-pair.html

[tech@scottshotrods]

I thought product and knowledge was the subject... the rest is skill level which depends on the individual and makes up for alot! I've seen a DSE customer (brian finch) jump in to kyles camaro and run faster times by a couple seconds which is alot on a fast track

[tech@scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by SBTork

What advantage, other than eliminate deflection, do the solid tie rod end sleeves/adjusters hold over stock? Something like.....http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspen...ster-pair.html

ours at air ride where purely cosmetic

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by SBTork

What advantage, other than eliminate deflection, do the solid tie rod end sleeves/adjusters hold over stock? Something like.....http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspen...ster-pair.html

Mostly cosmetic, some, like those with the wrench flats on them are easier to adjust than the stockers. But lets be real, we don't adjust toe settings on street trucks on a daily basis, so, mostly looks.

[tech@scottshotrods]

i think i just posted that LOL hahahahahaha

[robnolimit]

BUMPSTEER The term is self explanitory. Hit a bump (or compress the suspension) and it steers on its own. Understanding it is a bit tougher. It has to do with the relationship between the A-arms, steering arms, and tie-rod ends. Now we have to back up to a starting point. The position of the A-arms will create the "Instant Center (IC)" If you were to draw a line through the upper ball joint pivit center, through the center of the pivit shaft and extend it back a good ways, and duplicate this through the bottom arm, the two lines would cross. And that point, where they cross, is the I.C. Next, if you started at the I.C., and drew a line to the center of the outer tie rod end pivit, this would be the line that the tie rod needs to be on. To get the length ot the tie rod, draw a line from the center of the upper ball joint to the center of the lower ball joint, and a line from the center of the upper pivit shaft to the center of the lower pivit shaft. Where these lines cross the Tie Rod line will give you the tie rod length.

[robnolimit]

Step 2 I'd guess that not too many of us are going to build there own spindles, so we have to use the spindles we have. This places the outer tie rod end, so if we were to change something it has to be the inner pivit point. In the last post I explaned how to deturmin the elevation and length of the tie rod. But it can be shifted in board or outboard. If the steering arm is farther out than the ball joint line (spindle axis) then the tie rod will be shifted outboard, as in line A. This is common to 'front steer' spindles, like the C-10. In a rear steer spindle aplication, it would be common to have the tie rod shifted inboard, as in line B

[robnolimit]

WHY? why isn't the steering arm even with the spindle axis? it is positioned to set the Acremen. Acremen is the relationship of the steering points with the rear axle. To get "perfect" Acremen, a line from the center of the outer tie rod end, through the spindle axis, would pass through the center of the rear axle. This relationship allows the inside wheel/tire to turn slightly more than the outside tire in a corner. Remember that the inside tire must make a sharper turn in the same corner than the outside tire. Understanding Acremen in its basic concept will leed you to know that you can't change it much. If the wheelbase and front suspension width are constant, then only the steering arm will adjust Acremen. This is tough to do with the one piece spindle on the C-10's. You may not want "perfect" acremen anyway. A line that runs wider than the center of the axle will be an give you "softer" acremen, and be more stable at high speed. A line heading more inboard will be "tight" and have very quick steering reaction, good for go-carts. I hope this info helps to explain the basics. let me know if you have any questions.

[Mallory]

Rob I'm thinking about useing the Fatbar 4-link suspension on my 68 c-10 and was wondering how much room if any do you lose as far as tire width goes.
This is also a great thread i have learned alot, But some of it makes my head hurt trying to take it all in.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by Mallory

Rob I'm thinking about useing the Fatbar 4-link suspension on my 68 c-10 and was wondering how much room if any do you lose as far as tire width goes.
This is also a great thread i have learned alot, But some of it makes my head hurt trying to take it all in.

HAHA, thats what they make beer for. Our Fatbar takes up 4" outside the frame. You should still be able to run a 10" rim, 295 tire.

[Mechanic77]

Well I've got an ackerman question...seeing as the ackerman on our trucks ('73-'87 front end) is fixed (or at least hard change), do you happen to know whether it is better on a long bed or a short bed. I ask because I'm curious and I know wheelbase affects ackerman

On a separate note, when you set up a truck or car for road racing/autocross, how much do you take into account driver's preference? I haven't done any full-size car racing, but I've done quite a bit of RC racing and setup on them is very dependent on driving style. Some people (like me ) prefer a car that has a slight push when you get too aggressive, and others prefer a car that is a little loose.

[robnolimit]

All C-10's have "soft" acremen, but the long beds are a little better. As far as that is concerned anyway, other than the Acremen, the long beds have a long list of things making them worse handling than shortbeds.
As far as the set-up goes, your RC car is far more tunable than than a C-10. Because of the heavy nose weight, the trucks will push (understeer) in the corner entry, and be loose (oversteer) on corner exit. I try to get my efee as nuetral as I can, which really just shortens the enrty and exit, and lengthens the center of the corner where the truck is more nuetral. This way I can carry a higher corner speed and cut lap times.

[Hotchkis]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

J-rod, Welcome aboard. Your question is a common one. At the moment, if you want a full 'kit', from one manufacturer, I'd say that the Hotchkis TVS kit is it. But it comes with a price. But it does deliver.

Hey Rob,
Thanks for the kind words on Hotchkis products.

What’s your race schedule for this year? The only changes made to Rob’s C10 is oil and his radio station. We’re looking forward to the continuing Rob vs Rob truck challenge! See you out on the course!

[stevieB]

Hey Rob,

Great thread and you are very knowledgeable. My question what are some really good books on the subject?