getting truck off stands

[C10-Driver]

Originally Posted by Chops_by_Chase

you would need to run a seamless stainless line. this prevents corrosion and can withstand high psi... this does reduce the risk of melting or haveing a blow out, but in my experience when you hardline a system it is much harder to have a leak-free system. also if you do punture or smash or destroy a hardline in any way while you are out on the road it is hard to "patch" it to get moving again. with nylon line, you can cut and splice pretty quickly to get going again. ups and downs to both

I thought about running hard-line but opted to go with the "easy" route. The push-lock airline fittings are a breeze to install and the insulated loom was a nice, clean option to add a little more durability to the system. I'm thinking that I am also going to carry around some spare parts with me... a few feet of airline and some straight-through puch-lock fittings so I could perform a "roadside" repair if needed.

I hope I don't come across as knowing a lot about this stuff because, quite frankly, I am learning as I go along. These are just some of the ideas I have come up with after thinking about it for hours, days, even weeks sometimes. Everyone's comments are greatly appreciated.

[cajundragger]

Originally Posted by Shane

Tthe fact that because the frame is now dragging and taking weight OFF the tires, which one uses for steering, I say it could hurt a lot.

If you can't steer it, then you can't drive it ... blow a bag at 60 mph and you are only along for the ride.

you've obviously never drug before. and anyways, if the truck is setup right, it will be no problem as the parts touching the ground will be there specifically to touch the ground. So painted and important pieces will not contact.

[PBFAB.COM]

Originally Posted by cajundragger

you've obviously never drug before. and anyways, if the truck is setup right, it will be no problem as the parts touching the ground will be there specifically to touch the ground. So painted and important pieces will not contact.

Shane's referring to the fact that if you lose air pressure in a system at 60mph, and your frame-rails are now holding the weight of the vehicle, you turn into a 3000lb. sled. You will have no control of where the truck goes... regardless of skid plates etc.. It could get real ugly real quick.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by jlaird

jackstands

There's your problem, right there!

[cajundragger]

Originally Posted by porterbuilt

Shane's referring to the fact that if you lose air pressure in a system at 60mph, and your frame-rails are now holding the weight of the vehicle, you turn into a 3000lb. sled. You will have no control of where the truck goes... regardless of skid plates etc.. It could get real ugly real quick.

I understand that, but you still have enough control to let off the gas and keep it semi straight. And with it dragging it will slow down reallly quick. Also if you blow a line or bag that one corner is going to fall, as long as you have 4 way. And with one corner down that much weight isnt going to be taken off the wheels if something contacts the ground. It would take a miricle for the whole truck to randomly fall on the ground.

[Shane]

Originally Posted by cajundragger

I understand that, but you still have enough control to let off the gas and keep it semi straight.

With that statement, its pretty apparent that YOU have never drug before.

Please post when & where you plan on being with your truck on the public roadways. I, along with a lot of others, would rather avoid that area.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by cajundragger

I understand that, but you still have enough control to let off the gas and keep it semi straight. And with it dragging it will slow down reallly quick.

If you're going to be in my area, please post date, time, and route. I can stay home that day.



Edit... oops... should have read Shane's post first. Great minds?

[cajundragger]

Originally Posted by Shane

With that statement, its pretty apparent that YOU have never drug before.

Please post when & where you plan on being with your truck on the public roadways. I, along with a lot of others, would rather avoid that area.

[Spray-Bomb]

[Shane]

Originally Posted by XXL

Great minds?

As if it could be anything else.

P.S. I think we've been had by another Great Internet Pretender.

[cajundragger]

Originally Posted by Shane

As if it could be anything else.

P.S. I think we've been had by another Great Internet Pretender.

not quite, I been in the game for a while.

I'll let my work speak for myself. I dont know you, or your work, or if you even do it yourself, and I dont care. I wont attack you like I know you, or try and gang up with some forum buddies to screw with a new guy.

So let me know of your first hand experience with bagged rides that lay, here mine.

My truck-
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=229534

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=230537

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=227919

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=238544

My brothers-

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=210791

so theres some projects that give me my experience to know what Im talking about, post up yours

[XXL]

Originally Posted by cajundragger

so theres some projects that give me my experience to know what Im talking about, post up yours

I don't think anyone has questioned your experience in building vehicles (I didn't know you had until your links above, actually). What's being questioned is your judgement... at least from my end. To knowingly build a vehicle that will be unsafe in the event of a bag failure is not smart, and while you may think it's your life to endanger, I'll bet you wouldn't get the same opinion from the mom and 3 kids you're headed for at 120mph closing rate when you lose control and veer into the oncoming lane.

[cajundragger]

and again, I speak from experience. I've lost a bag before. Did anyone get hurt? no. Was there a time when I could have lost control? no Did the car get hurt? no

simple fact is, you loose one corner of your car, even if the car lays frame, it most likely wont contact that ground. Go take a bagged truck...air it up, and dump just one bag and see what happens. Like I said before, it would take some many things to go wrong for the car to drop on the ground. And even so, if the car is meant to touch the ground it will be alright.

You talk about the car taking weight off the tires...yep, and your completely right. Problem your not seeing is the bag hits its internal bumpstop when the truck hits the ground...this meants weight is distributed between the frame on the ground and the 4 wheels. Weight is still pushing down on the wheels even though its on the ground, if it wasnt the bag wouldnt deflate. So you still have enough control to safely let the vechicle coast to a stop. I wont reccomend slamming the brakes, but you can get it to a safe stop.

[Shane]

Not all bags have internal bumpstops, so your point is moot .... now, what was that you were saying about "experience?"

[67Fleet]

I can say from "experience" that when driving my buds S-10 at 70mph on I-75 through Atlanta and losing an airline directly off the tank that a frame-dragging vehicle "if properly set up right" is still controllable at higher rates of speed. I didn't panic, didn't go right for the brakes, I just let off the gas and steered toward the shoulder and coasted to a stop. Then afterwards I got out and looked for some toilet paper.

[LONGHAIR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by project 67 sub
Cant you just make some copper or steel lines and run those? If so than that would just about cure your chance of an airline blowing out or melting on you.


you would need to run a seamless stainless line. this prevents corrosion and can withstand high psi... this does reduce the risk of melting or haveing a blow out, but in my experience when you hardline a system it is much harder to have a leak-free system. also if you do punture or smash or destroy a hardline in any way while you are out on the road it is hard to "patch" it to get moving again.

Why? the air pressure in a bag system is very low compared to what a steel line can withstand. Your brake lines are steel and "hopefully" leak-free.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by cajundragger

Problem your not seeing is the bag hits its internal bumpstop when the truck hits the ground...this meants weight is distributed between the frame on the ground and the 4 wheels. Weight is still pushing down on the wheels even though its on the ground, if it wasnt the bag wouldnt deflate.

This is incredibly twisted logic, based on an absurd premise-- that is, you seem to indicate that a bag won't deflate without weight on it. First, I doubt anyone would argue that, given the bag's role as the intermediary between the spring and unsprung weight of the car, there is indeed weight on the bag. Second, I can set a bag in the middle of my garage floor, pump it whatever pressure I choose, and when a hole is made in it, it will indeed deflate. It a crazy little physics term we like to call equilibrium... we can all thank that wacky dude, Robert Boyle for figuring that one out.

Adding to the preposterous argument you'vfe made above, you may be aware that steel has a significantly lower coefficient of friction than rubber. This is (I suspect) why tires are made of rubber instead of the more durable steel.

Getting called by the SO... otherwise I'd bore you with more facts.

[cajundragger]

Originally Posted by Shane

Not all bags have internal bumpstops, so your point is moot .... now, what was that you were saying about "experience?"

The only bag that I can think of would be an f9000, either way your shocks should bottom out to keep it from over collasping or you should have external bumpstops, so my point is still valid. Keep trying to get me on specifics, Im still waiting for the details of your laid out truck to give your claims against what I say any backing.

Originally Posted by 67Fleet

I can say from "experience" that when driving my buds S-10 at 70mph on I-75 through Atlanta and losing an airline directly off the tank that a frame-dragging vehicle "if properly set up right" is still controllable at higher rates of speed. I didn't panic, didn't go right for the brakes, I just let off the gas and steered toward the shoulder and coasted to a stop. Then afterwards I got out and looked for some toilet paper.

Thanks, glad someone else has real world data on the subject instead of "lab" calculations.

Originally Posted by XXL

This is incredibly twisted logic, based on an absurd premise-- that is, you seem to indicate that a bag won't deflate without weight on it. First, I doubt anyone would argue that, given the bag's role as the intermediary between the spring and unsprung weight of the car, there is indeed weight on the bag. Second, I can set a bag in the middle of my garage floor, pump it whatever pressure I choose, and when a hole is made in it, it will indeed deflate. It a crazy little physics term we like to call equilibrium... we can all thank that wacky dude, Robert Boyle for figuring that one out.

Adding to the preposterous argument you'vfe made above, you may be aware that steel has a significantly lower coefficient of friction than rubber. This is (I suspect) why tires are made of rubber instead of the more durable steel.

Getting called by the SO... otherwise I'd bore you with more facts.

Bore me with facts, keep telling me my truck that lays frame will crash and burn when it touches the ground. My truck sets the frame on the ground at the exact moment the bags bottoms out...Most of my weight is still on my tires eventho the frame is barely on the ground. I have plenty of weight on my tires to keep control when the frame is on the ground.

[cajundragger]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

Why? the air pressure in a bag system is very low compared to what a steel line can withstand. Your brake lines are steel and "hopefully" leak-free.

I've seen brake lines used for airlines without problem...Their much easier to bend than SS hardline as well.

[cajundragger]

Heres lets try this...

I have a 2000 pound truck with perfect weight distrobution. 500 pounds of force are pushing down on each wheel. I air the truck out and the frame touches the ground.

you claim that theres no way to keep weight on the tires so my truck would turn into a 2000pound metal sled with ~2000 pounds of force pushing on the ground through the frame and the wheels just sitting there.

This would be true if the truck was setup to lay past the frame. But I wouldnt consider that setup correctly.

So on a correctly setup truck the frame may only exert 2-300 pounds of force on the ground, keeping each wheel at a nice ~450 pounds of force.

Its like making your truck lay exactly 1 inch from the ground all the way around, then adding a piece of 1x1 under each rail. Your frame now touches the ground, but you wheels still have plenty of weight on them.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by cajundragger

Its like making your truck lay exactly 1 inch from the ground all the way around, then adding a piece of 1x1 under each rail. Your frame now touches the ground, but you wheels still have plenty of weight on them.

Now all we need is a perfectly flat road.

/you've been twitted.

[Shane]

The only bag that I can think of would be an f9000

show me ANY firestone bag that has a bumpstop ...

I have a 2000 pound truck with perfect weight distribution. 500 pounds of force are pushing down on each wheel. I air the truck out and the frame touches the ground.

I suggest you put your truck on a set of race scales before making such claims ... one's that measure weight distribution on each individual tire contact patch ... I'm betting you a dollar to a donut that your truck is way heavier on the front two tires as opposed to the rear two.

If it's perfectly balanced, as you so boldly state above, then there are multiple race chassis fabricators that would love to ask you a few questions.

[cajundragger]

Originally Posted by Shane

I suggest you put your truck on a set of race scales before making such claims ... one's that measure weight distribution on each individual tire contact patch ... I'm betting you a dollar to a donut that your truck is way heavier on the front two tires as opposed to the rear two.

If it's perfectly balanced, as you so boldly state above, then there are multiple race chassis fabricators that would love to ask you a few questions.

hey bud it was just a "for instance". your trying so hard arent you

[cajundragger]

and Shane, Im still waiting for any backing to your talking...

[randomhero472]

What the **** is w/you guys... the dude has an opinion, just like everyone else on this board, why not leave it alone instead of insisting on ranting and raving and BEATING A DEAD horse, if your going to preach to this dude about an unsafe truck that's frame touches the ground, you better start preaching to the other 50 trucks on the board that do the exact same thing