Best All Around Motor?

[Ticker]

The best all-around engine for a budget-minded guy is a late model, roller-cam, Vortec head 383 with an upgraded cam, dual-plane aftermarket intake, 650 cfm vacuum-secondary carb, HEI and headers. A smart guy can make a killer pull-out buy on one of these and be on the road cheap...and make 400+ HP.

In terms of power per dollar...it's impossible to beat

If money is no object...a supercharged LSx454

[AirSpeed]

I was reading some trade magazine a couple years ago and there was an artical about some engineering award given to the Chevy 350 as the best engineered machine in the last 100 years.(something like that) mine has never been out of the truck since my grandfather bought the truck new In 1970. I have had it for more than 20 years and have only changed the alternator, that's the only thing that has ever gone wrong with it.

[gchemist]

Power, economy and price......

Roller cam block, 383, Vortec heads, aluminum intake, Qjet, 700R4 and gears based on tire size.

[boostat4500]

IMO, power, economy, and price has to go to a 6.0L LQ4/LQ9.
They're becoming ridiculously cheap to buy complete and you don't have to touch them to match or beat a SBC with a bunch of upgrades.
Personally I think it's easier to get a late model running right than a carb motor and you never have to touch it once running.
As far as ease of swap, I'd be willing to bet 9 out 10 people that say it's hard, haven't actually tried it. There's just too much support and info out there now.

[Ticker]

Originally Posted by boostat4500

IMO, power, economy, and price has to go to a 6.0L LQ4/LQ9.

As far as ease of swap, I'd be willing to bet 9 out 10 people that say it's hard, haven't actually tried it. There's just too much support and info out there now.

I agree - but the issue isn't so much hard as still kinda expen$ive. Easier for our trucks since we don't have hood clearance issues.

[C-10 simplex]

1) If you're sticking with gas, then the small block chevy;

It can be swapped in under 8 hours. If it's your first time, then in 3 days or less. i don't think an LS can be swapped in under 8 hours because of all the fiddling involved. In fact, i would say the average time is probably 3 months. Time is money; Think about all the time that could be spent working, earning money vs. fiddling with the engine.

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by 68c10burb

Ls swaps are getting pretty cheap. I see them on cl with trans and harness for $600 on ocassion.

Favorite I've had so far was a 400 small block. I had one in a caprice wagon- with a qjet and 700r4 I could get 20mpg. Took a trip from IL to NH and got 22 mpg, until I got in the mountains.

I had a caprice/impala SS clone with an LT1 that I couldn't ever get better than 18mpg.

I was going to say LT1, Their cheap, dependable, it bolts in. Vortec heads are based off the iron LT1 B-body head. Ive bought wrecked B-bodys for 800 bucks....... can be done very cheap just my opinion.

[Camaro_nut2001]

Originally Posted by beuford

i like the 400 small block. It uses no more space and weighs no more but makes a lot more torque. They are compareable cost to rebuild and most all the brackets are interchangeable,

x2

[67ss&99ss]

I love my 406.

[69 longhorn]

If you are talking "old school SB", the 327 has my vote also. IMHO, that short stroke /big bore SB did give up a little tork as compaired to a 350....but that lill bioch would REV & do it fast! The thing that we all understand, & that there is no replacement for displacement. However, that is not the complete game......make ALL the pcs match(cam/gearing/ect), & that lill short stroke mouse will kick some azz, even in a 3800 lb truck. I ran a flat top 327 +.040 LJ, in a 4 bolt block. She was wearin LT-1 heads & a mild cam(216 dur @ .050),headers 650 vac spreadbore . The old truck ran a saginaw 4 spd, with 3.50 1st gear & 3.73s in the rear, & was just as happy pulling 5000 lbs on the towbar as she was bustin gears playin with those old carburated 302 Stangs. I have heard it said many times, by old racers....."if you got the gears, you dont need a big motor"....you just need enough rpms to run the gears! crazyAL

[Clyde65]

with proper prep ( as with any engine/trans swap) the LS is your best bet. There are parts readily available for this swap into just about any 60-87 Chevy truck. If you buy a crate motor, even a close to stock one, you will be paying about the same as a low mileage 6.0l Gen3 or 4 from the yard. Use Thealien's swap discussion and see what you thing. I am finishing up now and I, like most of us here, arent rolling in the dough. Single dad, one income, house and car payment just like us all. I started buying parts after reading the Classic Trucks magazine writeup. It took me about 3 months to gather the parts I needed, because of $ and no other reason. ( I wish I would have had Thealien's write up before I started) Then I jerked my tire 350/400 out and put the ls in, it was like it was made for it, I used the 4l60e trans for the 4speed and mileage. Everything is all done except the exhaust which I am currently saving for it, couple more weeks. It runs 10 times better than my 350, more juice and should get around 17-20MPG highway. Dont let this intimidate you, it is no more expensive than the crate motors and it will be a vast improvement over the gas guzzler you got. BTW I went with a 5.3l not the 6.0, just cuz I found it and the trans out of a wreck, with all accessories and harness/pcm under $1000.

Look into it, you will be glad you did.

[Ticker]

Originally Posted by Clyde65

Look into it, you will be glad you did.

Willing to share the total cost involved for the swap?

I agree the BEST swap is an LS swap...but I kinda factor in the almighty buck in this stuff too.

[C-10 simplex]

AND how long did it actually take (in hours) to install everything and get it to the point where it would run with no issues?

2) If a SBC is used, the stock exhaust could be used.

[Clyde65]

well, Thealien does this in his write up but, I got my engine/trans for say $1000.00, I bought engine and trans mounts- $200.00, wiring harness redo/pcm reprogram- $360.00, misc $100.00

Now, I put electric fans and redid my radiator, so about $300.00 for that. this isnt neccesary but it was in my case.

With a friend, you can have all removed, installed and ready in a weekend easy. You will need to do something with your driveshaft more than likely. probably another $100.00 or so.

I see these motors every day for around 500.00 with less than 60K miles, these engines will easily last 200K miles if taken care of ( my B.I.L ran his for over 265K and he is anything but nice to his vehicles). If you want you can run a TH350, TH400, 200 or 700r4 behind them with an adapter.

You will need to match these with the existing exhaust yes, I went with Sanderson Shortie headers, but you can use a form of stock manifolds too, this is covered in Thealiens write up too. I am replacing my exhaust so mine will be more, total I think I have spent for the swap only, not counting freshen up stuff I did along the way, about $2600.00. My swap has taken alot longer since I am totally by my self, no help and I can only get to it a couple weekends a month.

The crate motors I was looking at was a 350HP 350 and a 400HP 383, they both were over $3k alone.

I sure hope this helps, if you have any other questions or anything, I will be happy to help.

Clyde65

[coater]

May I ask where you find this write up?

[Clyde65]

Sure, Here it is.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=377348

[C-10 simplex]

1)How long did it take(in hours) to physically install the engine and trans?
a) Can't use stock mounts with a LS; How long did it take to figure out what mounts to use? How long to wait for them to come in or build?

2) Again, How long (in total hours) did it take after the engine was installed to get it and the trans running with NO issues?

[karl]

350 or 400 if you dont bore the 400 too much. They(400) tend to overheat when bored .060. 383 if you dont mind a little machine work. I wouldnt use a 307 because none of the 307 blocks had much nickel and they wear out fast. Look for a 350 truck block with 4 bolt mains and high nickel content. Thats what i use. 454 is next to go in my C10. Of course its not a daily driver.

[boostat4500]

I'd like to coment on the total time thing here for a LSx swap. I did mine over the weekend out in the street, so this was strictly daylight hours.
Friday night: yank old motor/tranny
Saturday: install new motor, hook up fuel and P/S and put front of truck back on.
Sunday: build exhaust system, finish wiring, hook up new gauges.
All that was left was to get the driveshaft modified, which obviously couldn't be done before hand, and I was ready to go. Before I started I had the following ready to go: harness modified, PCM tuned, new guages in the truck, and electric fans mounted on the radiator. I used a universal LS swap crossmember, so that went quick, and used the stock tranny crossmember.
So my main point here is, if your prepared before hand, it goes pretty quick. Having a properly prepaired and labled harness is the biggest thing to make sure of. Even if nothing had been prepared prior, I don't see any reason why it couldn't be done over 2 weekends. Once you're done, you'd be amazed how simple it really is.

[Clyde65]

I completely agree with boostat4500. I think it took about 7 or so hours to pull the old eng/trans and stick the LS in, buttoned up and wired. This was by myself, in a carport. It took me longer to get it running, just because I can not leave well enough alone and I decided to replace the master cylinder/prop valve, brake lines, radiator, install dual electric fans, entire wiring harness, guages, tail lights. since I had the parts and it needed to be done.

I would buy the fuel pump and filters, electric fans if you want them, trans and engine mounts, have the harness reworked or buy a standalone, reflash/reprogram the PCM before I started anything, then start on a day you can devote the whole day, maybe with a friend and get after it. There is alot of help here and maybe if someone lives near you from this forum, maybe they would be that friend. I have never removed/replaced an engine before, I have seen it done but never have done it...I also am a computer guy so read whatever you want to into that, if I can do it, ANYONE can do it. just be well prepared dude! I wasnt, I had alot of problems with motor mounts and perches, but I got them figured out finally. It really was easy, especially with our trucks.

Good luck, btw where are you located? Anyone here reading this can you help him?

Clyde65

[C-10 simplex]

So, you guys were able to install the engine AND install an electric fuel pump in 7 or so hours or 1 saturday(24hrs?) AND have the engine running WITH NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER? (not to mention re-installing the whole front sheetmetal?)

If that's the case, then congratulations.(i think?)


NOTE: i am not anti-LS motor, i think they are great. However, despite some information being on the web/books etc., i still feel that LS conversions and fuel injection in general are still not plug and play. At least not at this point.

a) i'm not counting against on driveshaft or exhaust issues in the LS conversions because those are fairly straightforward. However, that is another factor to consider in terms of total time, effort, and money.

b) As a time/ease of installation comparison:

After 8-9 hours (sbc-to-sbc swap), and about 1/2 hr. carb tuning, i was able to go on a 110 mile trip--it was a test run. The truck ran with no major issues. Yes, there was a choke problem which took about 1hr, 45 mins total to solve afterwords(went on web, read books etc.). But the point is, i was able to have a completely running vehicle in about under 10 hrs.

i do not think this is possible with any LS conversion. Hence, my vote for the SBC.

[Clyde65]

It is completely your call there C10. It is what you feel comfortable with. I understand you apprehensiveness, but just think about it, price it out. Even with a crate engine and such, issues are always possible. I am waiting on $ for the exhaust but when that is done, I believe I will be much better off. My 350/400 was real tired when I got started, ran but was REAL tired. I have ran my truck with the LS in there and it runs massively better than the 350, better throttle response and MUST get better than the 8-9 MPG I was getting. I must admit right now it is VERY loud without the exhaust but it does give me the chance to pi$$ off the neighbors some. The only REAL issue I see is the AC, which i havent even thought of til I get it moving on a daily basis.

[FLDBRED]

Hands down the LS motors are better,no one will argu that,and for some it might not be that hard a swap.But I like many,do very few engine swaps.Yet I know I can change SBC to SBC or SBC to BBC in a weekend.Maybe after I tried the swap I would see it differently!

[Clyde65]

"So, you guys were able to install the engine AND install an electric fuel pump in 7 or so hours or 1 saturday(24hrs?) AND have the engine running WITH NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER? (not to mention re-installing the whole front sheetmetal?)"


the fuel pump took me approximately 1-1.5hours. you drill 3 holes, use rubber lined clamps and run -6 hose, I had to run the return all the way back too ( pre 03 eng)

The front sheet metal only took me ( with a cherry picker) 1 hour to put back on, would have been alot faster if I had help though. 14 bolts I think.

"no Issues"? no, I found out my battery was bad....and I didnt tighten the output -6 line from the fuel pump, what a mess.

If your asking about clearance issues and all that, no none, with the aftermarket motor mounts and trans mounts and the research done to fit these in the 62 and up Chevy/GMC trucks, somebody has Got to be wanting it or their wouldnt be a market for it. Take a look at Performancetrucks.com , ls1trucks.com and ls1tech.com. people are putting LS engines in anything, datsun, mercedies, volvo anything!

Those people, the ones who have the metal fab skills and tools are way above me.

[boostat4500]

I'm pretty much with Clyde65 on the time frame. The fronts of these trucks basically fall off. What issues would you expect to encounter as far as how the engine runs? Saying you spent 1/2 an hour tuning the carb sounds like an eternity to me when it come to making an engine run right. Unless the motor is heavily modded there's nothing to tune other than turning off/eliminating certain things in the PCM. Now that it's done, I would say that if I had all parts in hand, I could do the swap into a bone stock truck and have it driving all in the same day.
I don't think that anyone would argue aqainst installing a new SBC being faster and easier, but in the end you still have the same garbage (comparatively) Gen. 1
Just trying to show it's not the daunting task that people make it out to be. It's all just nuts and bolts.