Sweet Cummins

[greguw]

I agree that diesel engine prices are over rated , look at Europe , just about every automotive manufacture has diesel powered cars and trucks , most its just standard of the base price .
In alot of cases its the Gasoline engine that cost more than a diesel .

[DetroitDan]

pi**es me off that diesel costs more at the pump, it's a dirty, less refined by-product of making gasoline, it should be cheaper. When I bought my first diesel pickup, diesel was 90 cents a gallon cheaper. First couple of years it would bump up in the winter due to heating oil cost/competition, but then it would go back down. Then one year it just didn't go down again. I'm convinced it has to do with them targeting the trucking industry, because it's a sitting duck of a target. Regular people can try to adjust their driving to save on fuel, but the trucking must go on no matter what it costs.

[Tx Firefighter]

Originally Posted by firenuttz

even though the cummins is a better bang for the buck engine i dont like it because everybody has one, wether it be in a dodge chevy or f@*d. i like the amount of power you can get out of them too but it has become more of a bolt in process to do the swap rather than an inovative thing, i would rather put a 6.2 or 6.5 in something with mild upgrades than put a cummins in because the older 12 valves are climbing in price and the 24 valves arent losing value so i dont want to be an arm and a leg into a stock engine with 400,000+ miles on it. and i have still yet to see a cummins with over 1000rwhp and get 32 mpg...but i have a seen a duramax do it

Apples to oranges here. Sure the Duramax is an awesome engine. But, the 12v Cummins takes exactly one wire to run (fuel shut off solenoid, and that's optional as it has a manual lever too). A set of Cummins injectors run well under 500 dollars. A set of injectors for a Duramax will break the bank. One is high tech and the other is stone age simple.

[DetroitDan]

Originally Posted by Tx Firefighter

Apples to oranges here. Sure the Duramax is an awesome engine. But, the 12v Cummins takes exactly one wire to run (fuel shut off solenoid, and that's optional as it has a manual lever too). A set of Cummins injectors run well under 500 dollars. A set of injectors for a Duramax will break the bank. One is high tech and the other is stone age simple.

very true. one thing that's turned me off of the duramax trucks, cause I used to really want one, was knowing people who paid $3500 to have their injectors done. I paid $280 iirc for all 8 on my 6.5 and did it myself.

My friend has a 96 or 97 and he can't find any modest power adders. Seems like if you want to mod it, you have to go all out. His dually struggles to pull his horse trailer in the mountains.I think there's a lot more cheap, simple power mods for the 24 valves.

I went camping with a guy had an 01 Cummins HO standard. I was embarassed at my truck climbing the last big hill in the Whites at 30 miles an hour, until he told me he cleared the top at 10 mph and his camper was a little bit smaller than mine.

[Edahall]

Originally Posted by DetroitDan

My friend has a 96 or 97 and he can't find any modest power adders. Seems like if you want to mod it, you have to go all out. His dually struggles to pull his horse trailer in the mountains.I think there's a lot more cheap, simple power mods for the 24 valves.

That's because the 6.2/6.5 engine has a bottom end that is not really designed for much more power over stock HP. Yes you can add propane injection and slap on a bigger turbo and significantly increase the power, but the engine likely won't last long. But in stock form and especially at the 150 hp level and less, these engines can last forever.

[DetroitDan]

Originally Posted by Edahall

That's because the 6.2/6.5 engine has a bottom end that is not really designed for much more power over stock HP. Yes you can add propane injection and slap on a bigger turbo and significantly increase the power, but the engine likely won't last long. But in stock form and especially at the 150 hp level and less, these engines can last forever.

It's been shown that 300 hp will kill a 6.5 prematurely. Idk where you got 150 from, they were rated at 180 or 195, depending on engine programming and emissions. I started with a stock 195 F engine, added marine injectors, a 50% larger turbo, (which btw lowers air intake temperature and makes the engine last much longer) a larger fuel pump and fuel system, a 4 inch exhaust and an ECM capable of increased fuel delivery. I didn't keep the propane long because it didn't do what I wanted it to do, which was help with towing. It made the truck a hotrod tire burner, but caused a pre-ignition (ping) condition under a heavy load, and I'd have to keep turning it down until it wasnt doing anything. Truck had 182k HARD miles on it when Isold it, and it's still out there working.

Military 6.5s have the Optimizer style engine with far better blocks and bottom ends. But at the end of the day, GM designed a light duty engine for use in a light duty line of trucks and suvs. At the time, it was more than sufficient for it's intended use, and LD pickups have never been built with more than 300,000 miles in mind. At least they built a motor, instead of outsourcing it, just buying medium duty engines and squeezing them into light duty pickups, which is what Dodge and Ford both did.

[willett]

i want it i want it i want it i want it

[firenuttz]

Originally Posted by Tx Firefighter

Apples to oranges here. Sure the Duramax is an awesome engine. But, the 12v Cummins takes exactly one wire to run (fuel shut off solenoid, and that's optional as it has a manual lever too). A set of Cummins injectors run well under 500 dollars. A set of injectors for a Duramax will break the bank. One is high tech and the other is stone age simple.

i fully agree and i think that the 12v cummins is a great engine but you see them in any/everything now and i dont like that, its like the cummins has its own cult following it and people are blindly following off of what someone else has led them to believe (meaning people will do the swap because someone told them its their best bet and then they suddenly become an expert and know everything about a cummins), being an engineman in the navy, part of my job is to work on ridged hull inflatable boats that have 12v cummins' in them and they break so often that i just get tired of working on them so i dont want to have to work on those all the time then go home and have to do the same thing

plus my dad has an 82 chevy and a 64 chevy with 12v cummins motors and everytime he pulls someone out of a ditch he always gets the same question... "hey man what kind of programmer you got in that thing?" and it bugs the f**k out of me

[Tx Firefighter]

If you were able to add up the numbers out there, I'd bet there are several hundred Cummins conversions for every Duramax conversion completed.

If you're standing in your shop looking at an empty engine bay and a modest amount of disposable money to spend on a conversion, the Cummins will always be the go-to choice. They are simple, cheap, pretty easy to install.

It's just more practical for most guys. I've had 5 Cummins Dodge pickups. The engines have been awesome, the trucks ran from "meh" at the best down to making me consider burning it to the ground at the worst. I've had 2 first gens, 2 second gens, and a third gen. The 1st gens are slow and quiet and very fuel efficient. The 12v second gen was reliable and steady. The 24v second gen would stand your hair up it pulled so hard (02 HO 6 speed). The third gen (03 HO 6 speed) is quiet, smooth and fast. I gave it to my ex wife and she uses it to pull horse trailers for her ranch every day without any complaint returning 15mpg towing and 20 unloaded.

[b454rat]

I don't want to do it cause everyone else is, my truck (far as I know) will be the only one in my area. Shoot, there aren't any crew cabs in my area anymore.

I want one cause they make crazy power with just simple stuff, pull the foundation of a house, and still get respectable fuel mileage. No other engine swap can do that. Duramax's are sweet, but totally electronic, something I want to get away from. All that stuff is nice till something goes wrong, then spending hundreds on trying to find and fix it.

Detroits might be good for mileage, but can't do much to get power out of them. Also, when was the last time you saw a Detroit 6.2/5 in anything other than a GM truck?? Cummins is used in alot of different equipment. Didn't do a great job, but we have a truck at work that has a Cummins, IIRC it's a 24v, 230 horse 7-speed, Freightshaker FL70, and that pulls doubles. Not very fast and it's screaming doing 65, but it pulls them. Like to see a Detroit do that....