One reason to LOVE your square!

[rusty76]

When I was looking for another truck and one to beat around in I told the guy at the dealership I wanted something simple. We looked at a bunch of trucks. A ton of trucks. They were all okay. Most were exteded cabs and crewcabs. I'll be honest I didn't want either, nor did I want power windows, seats and all that other crap. So we kept looking and found a '07 Colorado. It was plane jane down to the rubber mats, non power anything. It only had 10k on it, that was in January. I've had people tell me you should have bought a four door or got power this or that. The nicest thing on the truck is the radio. I drive it daily right now, but I imagine once I get my '76 back on the road I will drive it much more. Why? Because looking out the windsheild of a classic truck is different than looking out the windshield of a new truck.

[GM-power]

Originally Posted by rusty76

When I was looking for another truck and one to beat around in I told the guy at the dealership I wanted something simple. We looked at a bunch of trucks. A ton of trucks. They were all okay. Most were exteded cabs and crewcabs. I'll be honest I didn't want either, nor did I want power windows, seats and all that other crap. So we kept looking and found a '07 Colorado. It was plane jane down to the rubber mats, non power anything. It only had 10k on it, that was in January. I've had people tell me you should have bought a four door or got power this or that. The nicest thing on the truck is the radio. I drive it daily right now, but I imagine once I get my '76 back on the road I will drive it much more. Why? Because looking out the windsheild of a classic truck is different than looking out the windshield of a new truck.

I agree people who don't have a classic don't understand the thrill to drive one, whether it be a car or truck.
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[clinebarger]

Never thought Id see the day people referring to square bodies as "Classics"

[GM-power]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

Never thought Id see the day people referring to square bodies as "Classics"

I know but 33 years seem like enough time to consider it somewhat classic. Sierra classic has to stand for something lol..
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[Firebirdjones]

Yeah that classic term still strikes me as odd for a square body. Just not quite old enough in my eyes and even then, it's just hard to fathem I think. Probably because I still use mine is it was intended, to tow and haul.

If it ever gets too old to the point I think it needs to be a sunday driver, then I'll have to find another truck

[ssapach]

I love my 1986 1 ton. I can buy all new wheel bearings and seals for the 4 corners and it's still cheaper than a single front wheel bearing unit for my 2006 Sierra.

Locking hubs, nothing wrong with saving some wear and tear on the front diff by not having it spin all the time.

Fixed yoke t-case outputs. I can remove a driveshaft and still drive home if I needed to.

My 2006 Sierra has some goofy balancer on the rear pinion shaft, it has half of the pinion seal attached to the balancer. It cost me about $250 to replace the rear pinion seal because this whole balancer needs to be replaced with it. The rear pinion seal for my 1986 1 ton is about $12 and takes 20 minutes to replace.

I'm sure I could think of a few other reasons to love the square body.....

[rusty76]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

Never thought Id see the day people referring to square bodies as "Classics"

Me neither but if you pat attention to the aftermarket they are starting to call'em classics. Though I don't really consider my truck old......But you know people considered '72 classics for years, although I don't get that either. Just like people calling '78 Malibus, '79 Mustangs and Caprices from the late 70's and 80's classics. I love reading some of the crap on CL where somebody is selling a " '80 Caprice Classic. Ready to restore and could be worth something 2k." Really?

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by rusty76

Me neither but if you pat attention to the aftermarket they are starting to call'em classics. Though I don't really consider my truck old......But you know people considered '72 classics for years, although I don't get that either. Just like people calling '78 Malibus, '79 Mustangs and Caprices from the late 70's and 80's classics. I love reading some of the crap on CL where somebody is selling a " '80 Caprice Classic. Ready to restore and could be worth something 2k." Really?

If it has electric wipers & a padded dash....Its not a Classic

[Rich84]

My TPI computer is 28 years old..I had an old TBI to use as a core , so I picked up a new computer as a spare for trouble shooting for $80.00...Long story short, for some stupid reason I have been running the truck with the "new" computer. Guess what. It lasted about 5000 miles. So I'm back to the 28 year old with no problems.

[Can't kech me]

i don't understand how you can argue that a carb is better than fuel injection from any standpoint. you might say it's easier to work on...changing jets on a carb can take hours...changing injectors can take minutes...changing the AFR on a carbed engine required the truck be stopped, with the hood open. changing the AFR on a fuel injected engine is as easy as plugging in the computer, which can be done will the truck is running, allowing you to tune on the fly. same with timing. some say gen I small block chevys are the easiest engines to work on, a cam swap on a LSX engine can take a matter of a couple hours. fuel injection is far superior in every single way...

a STOCK 325 cu in LS truck engine makes 300hp 320ft/lbs tq and gets 18 mpg in the city all long...

what does your stock carburated 350 make?

you may say that with a little work it could make that much...well you could spend maybe a total of 10 hours on that little 5.3l/325 cu in ls engine doing a cam, valvespring, intake, and longtube header install and have it tuned and make 400hp 425ft/lbs of tq

i understand that all the interior electronics and headlight computers and automated evrything is a little overkill, but saying that carburation is better than fuel injection? that's the craziest thing i've ever heard...

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by Can't kech me

i don't understand how you can argue that a carb is better than fuel injection from any standpoint. you might say it's easier to work on...changing jets on a carb can take hours...changing injectors can take minutes...changing the AFR on a carbed engine required the truck be stopped, with the hood open. changing the AFR on a fuel injected engine is as easy as plugging in the computer, which can be done will the truck is running, allowing you to tune on the fly. same with timing. some say gen I small block chevys are the easiest engines to work on, a cam swap on a LSX engine can take a matter of a couple hours. fuel injection is far superior in every single way...

a STOCK 325 cu in LS truck engine makes 300hp 320ft/lbs tq and gets 18 mpg in the city all long...

what does your stock carburated 350 make?

you may say that with a little work it could make that much...well you could spend maybe a total of 10 hours on that little 5.3l/325 cu in ls engine doing a cam, valvespring, intake, and longtube header install and have it tuned and make 400hp 425ft/lbs of tq

i understand that all the interior electronics and headlight computers and automated evrything is a little overkill, but saying that carburation is better than fuel injection? that's the craziest thing i've ever heard...

You conveniently forgot to mention the huge price differences Not to mention on top of that you need a laptop, and $650 software, plus a $400 wideband setup, just to tune an LS fuel injection setup properly, or run it with a FAST controller setup and tune with that. Neither are cheap. Most don't want to make the huge investment.

Carbs are still the favorite among the hobbiest, for good reason, they are dirt cheap to work on and maintain. I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty and actually love the simplicity and cost of a carb setup. I've already mentioned how road side repairs are much easier too. Not to mention every LS engine test done so far, carbs rain supreme on the dyno Even with an aftermarket FAST setup.

I don't mean to sound like a carb nut, I'm actually on both sides of the fence as I work on both and I own and drive both. They both have their place and an argument can be made either way. Everyone has their preference and a pocket book to work with.

[Rubble]

I am not talking about TBI,I am talking about all the newer computer controlled trucks out there now,too many sensors and stuff to deal with.Like firebird said,you need laptop,software etc to go along with it,or the GM dealership to service it.That computer controlled truck is great if you break down in town,but out in the bush where your miles from civilization,give me a carb any day!!! I can limp it home!!
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[C30trailerspecial]

yep! gotta love it when the Jones next door have a flash rig yet still look over to see whats going on with your classic pick up, some how you know to yourself.... got em and got em good

[Skunksmash]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

You conveniently forgot to mention the huge price differences Not to mention on top of that you need a laptop, and $650 software, plus a $400 wideband setup, just to tune an LS fuel injection setup properly, or run it with a FAST controller setup and tune with that. Neither are cheap. Most don't want to make the huge investment.

Carbs are still the favorite among the hobbiest, for good reason, they are dirt cheap to work on and maintain. I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty and actually love the simplicity and cost of a carb setup. I've already mentioned how road side repairs are much easier too. Not to mention every LS engine test done so far, carbs rain supreme on the dyno Even with an aftermarket FAST setup.

I don't mean to sound like a carb nut, I'm actually on both sides of the fence as I work on both and I own and drive both. They both have their place and an argument can be made either way. Everyone has their preference and a pocket book to work with.

Yeah but you can download that software online for next to free now. Gone are the days of $650 tuning software. You can get just the software itself for around $30 now. And who doesn't own a laptop or a tablet or even a desktop pc these days? If you don't own a laptop then you run a long USB cable out the door or window. They even have smartphone apps now, although those do cost more than $30. Carbs are for just dumping gobs of fuel, EFI is for precision.

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by Skunksmash

Yeah but you can download that software online for next to free now. Gone are the days of $650 tuning software. You can get just the software itself for around $30 now. And who doesn't own a laptop or a tablet or even a desktop pc these days? If you don't own a laptop then you run a long USB cable out the door or window. They even have smartphone apps now, although those do cost more than $30. Carbs are for just dumping gobs of fuel, EFI is for precision.

Gone are alot of the people with the knowledge to properly tune a carb (sad to say). When done right they actually meter fuel rather efficiently. More to it then slapping it on, setting idle mixture and go. Rarely does a carb truely perform to it's potential right out of the box, even if they seem fine. You really need to play with air bleeds, power valves, power piston springs and idle feed restrictors to dial one in.

I don't see HPtuner anywhere for $30, and frankly that's all I'd recommend to use. Didn't care for LS1edit and sold it. It's nearly the same cost anyway. I wouldn't let anyone near my stuff with a USB cable and phone And you can't tune it on a tabletop PC either.

You need the cable as well as credits, and tuning can't be done properly without a wideband so that is another expense. So you need the cable setup that is wideband compatable (= more money). If you are tuning without a wideband, you're shooting in the dark. You need to log real time and make your changes. I can't even fathem trying to do that on a tablet or phone. Yikes! I'm too old to look at that tiny stuff sitting still, let alone driving down the road You need a large screen to bring up multiple sensors at one time.

Just the correct OBDII software USED still fetches $400 or more. That doesn't include the wideband, or a proper sized laptop to run it, or the credits needed to tune each car/truck.

About the only thing out there cheap as far as tuning computers is the old Moates Eprom flash software that you can download. Only works if you still run a TBI or TPI, but we are mainly talking about OBDII stuff here that's been around since 96. Lets face it, That's all most tuners are doing nowadays and it's the EFI to have. Quite frankly I wouldn't bother with a TBI or TPI fuel injection swap. Could be done on the cheap, but you get what you pay for. It's primitive batch fire stuff compared to todays EFI.

[Chevrolado]

There's something about the smell... the SMELL of the old motors burning fuel. The exhaust. The general feel of the whole thing.. You could probably get it in any older vehicle, but then you add in all the greatness of the truck body and interior setup and you just cant beat it. You get it all rolled into one.


*Disclaimer - Please no do not go out to your truck and sit behind the tailpipe breathing in as much as you can to try and get the "smell."

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by Chevrolado

There's something about the smell... the SMELL of the old motors burning fuel. The exhaust. The general feel of the whole thing.. You could probably get it in any older vehicle, but then you add in all the greatness of the truck body and interior setup and you just cant beat it. You get it all rolled into one.


*Disclaimer - Please no do not go out to your truck and sit behind the tailpipe breathing in as much as you can to try and get the "smell."

at that, funny stuff.

For those that want to know, fuel injection will smell the same way once you remove those cat converters.


And I don't mean to sound like I'm busting skunksmash's balls here. As I mentioned, I'm on both sides of the fence and own/drive both. Fuel injection is nice and I understand that, I really do. But carbs also have their place. There is good reason why they are still the most popular fuel metering device to use among the hot rodding crowd, and cost is a big factor of that. To say carbs are just for dumping gobs of fuel would be a fool hardy statement, and I mean that in the nicest way .

[Rich84]

Firebird,
The tpi are cheap way to get your feet wet with fuel injection..to learn all the terminolgy etc. when this motor is ready to be replaced I would bet that there will be some cheap Ls software etc...Technolgy gets cheaper the older it gets.
Just got my 15 year old an IPhone 4 for .99...lol
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[greatwhite]

damn good point on relaiablity.
I have a 2007.5 2500hd....lights and bulbs cost an arm and a leg to replace. most stuff on newer trucks is dealer only for the time being as well, the motor has one computer, the tranny has another. There is an abuse mode limiter that keeps you from having all out power from and otherwise awesome motor. you get stuck going forward, you have nearly no reverse.

only had my 88 for a month...managed to fix a few minor wires and replaced the running lights with a few small nad very common bulbs and i was done. tuned the carb...starts easy, runs smooth. shifts smooth.

hard to beat simplicity. And this is coming from a 26 year old thats been around electronic controled trucks all his truck life

thats just me tho

[Chevrolado]

Originally Posted by greatwhite

damn good point on relaiablity.
I have a 2007.5 2500hd....lights and bulbs cost an arm and a leg to replace. most stuff on newer trucks is dealer only for the time being as well, the motor has one computer, the tranny has another. There is an abuse mode limiter that keeps you from having all out power from and otherwise awesome motor. you get stuck going forward, you have nearly no reverse.

only had my 88 for a month...managed to fix a few minor wires and replaced the running lights with a few small nad very common bulbs and i was done. tuned the carb...starts easy, runs smooth. shifts smooth.

hard to beat simplicity. And this is coming from a 26 year old thats been around electronic controled trucks all his truck life

thats just me tho

Ah yes. I didnt even think of that. The parts cost! My daily driver BMW makes me cringe everytime something breaks or a new warning light comes on.. The simplest of parts are ridiculously priced, even when you have hookup through parts and distributors.

But then I go to order parts for my K10 build and Im like.. what?? I can get ALL of this stuff for the same price as that ONE part I bought last month for the 328? Yes!

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by Rich84

Firebird,
The tpi are cheap way to get your feet wet with fuel injection..to learn all the terminolgy etc. when this motor is ready to be replaced I would bet that there will be some cheap Ls software etc...Technolgy gets cheaper the older it gets.
Just got my 15 year old an IPhone 4 for .99...lol
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Yes sir, I agree completely. It will all get cheaper as it gets older. I'll be the first to tell you I owned an 88 Iroc 350 TPI and loved that car. That was back when LT1's were still fairly new on the market. Used Moates software to tune that stuff.

I never meant to implicate there was anything wrong with the older setups, they work and do their job. But like everything else related to technoligy, they keep improving it.

The other cost issues related to any fuel injection are things we don't really consider. Things like a bad fuel injector (8 of those things aren't that cheap) or the thought of dropping the fuel tank to install a fuel pump (not something you can do on the side of the road) and it gets expensive. Map sensors, MAF's, TPS, all things that can go funky and cost money too if you own a FI car long enough.

The small sensors can be a roadside repair, but without the software to diagnose it, (and you would need to carry it with you too), you'll just be guessing what the problem is. Carbed cars are easy to diagnose.

When we take trips in any of our LS powered cars, I take the lap top and software with me, (that's basically your modern day tool kit ) even if it's something I can't fix on the road, I'll know what it is.

I'm with the rest of you guys though too, I like simplicity and carbs are hard to beat in that respect. I still run points in 4 cars out here, that tells you how much I like simplicity