Steering Linkage Interference

[65 C20]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

The '67-'72 idler arms are completely different than the '63-'66 idler arms. Are you currently using the idler arm that is original to your truck?

Also not mentioned, did you use a different year cross member?

[CRGRS 66]

Cross member is original.

I have the original idler arm, and I see that the 67-72 idler arms are completely different, they have a shaft mount on both sides, how are these mounted to the frame?

[CRGRS 66]

I appreciate all of the input, and apologize if I am asking dumb questions. I thought I had the front suspension/steering all planned out, but I apparently overlooked a few things.

Thanks a million guys!

[CRGRS 66]

Okay, found a picture of the idler arm and mount. Any where I look they offer the arm with the two shafts, what I need to get my hands on is the bracket that bolts to the frame.

[Captainfab]

I'm confused.......if you have the original idler arm, why are you looking at changing to the '67-'87 style? Have you changed the entire steering linkage?

[CRGRS 66]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

I'm confused.......if you have the original idler arm, why are you looking at changing to the '67-'87 style? Have you changed the entire steering linkage?

Can I use the original idler arm? The center to center on the original is approx 6-1/2". The center to center on the new pitman arm is 5-1/4" I am now wondering if I should be swapping to the 67-72 idler...

[65 C20]

First off be skeptical of anyone that says they have an original anything on their truck. I have been corrected before, this is how I know.
With a 40 + year old truck you never know how many back yard mechanics have worked on it putting what ever they had or could get theirs hands on.
I believe you have a 67-72 idler arm on there now.
Check out Rock Auto part cat. and check out idler arms for a 66 and the 67.
The 67 comes with a seperate bracket, like yours.
The one I have on my 65 looks very similar to the 66 and it measures approx. 5 1/4 ".
I noticed that your pitman bracket is mounted on an angle to the left and mine is mounted straight up and down. It looks like you have the 2 holes in the frame to do this already.
As far as I know you need a pitman arm for the year of box and idler arm for the year of truck.
What year is your box off of ?
Mine is from a 70 and has casting #7802644 with pre-metric hose connections.
70 box = moog K6131 pitman.
Truck 65 = K14 idler.
What size motor and water pump do you have ?
If it is a 283 with short water pump Edelmann #70917 p/s hose worked for me. On the return line I bent up a brake line to bring it into engine bay then hose.
I also used a Dorman #31015 rag joint. If you kept your old rag joint use the original bolts and nuts as they are better.
As stated before I am not sure mine is original but it works.
Keep us posted.
Cal.

[65 C20]

Sorry, thought first one did'nt go through.

[CRGRS 66]

Sorry for the confusion everyone...

Picture in post #29 is just a picture I downloaded from a google search, the following picture is what I currently have. It is a new idler arm that I got from Classic Parts, ordered it from the 60-66 catalog.

The following is what I currently have:

67-72 power gear box (mounted with captains bracket)

67-72 pitman arm K6131 5-1/4" C to C

original 66 drag link - do I need to change this to 67-72 or are they the same?

new 66 idler arm as pictured 5-3/4" C to C (assuming I need to change this to the 2 piece 67-72 unit)

standard stock replacement 66 inner and outer tie rods

[Captainfab]

When I have done PS and disc brake upgrades in the past, I typically upgrade the entire steering linkage to match the spindles and steering box. With that said, there are many many '63-'66 trucks out there with '68-'87 power steering and their original idler arm. Contrary to popular belief, the idler arm is not always the same length as the pitman. I find that it is typically 1/2" longer

One thing that I think is causing some of your interference issue is the fact that your pitman arm is not fully onto the sector shaft of the steering box. The distance between the bottom of the steering box casting and the pitman arm should be aprox 9/16".

Additionally I measures a '68-'72 pitman arm (K6131) and a '73-'87 pitman arm (K6143) and they appear to be the same length and have close to the same offset.

I do not have an answer to your issue yet.

[CRGRS 66]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

When I have done PS and disc brake upgrades in the past, I typically upgrade the entire steering linkage to match the spindles and steering box. With that said, there are many many '63-'66 trucks out there with '68-'87 power steering and their original idler arm. Contrary to popular belief, the idler arm is not always the same length as the pitman. I find that it is typically 1/2" longer

One thing that I think is causing some of your interference issue is the fact that your pitman arm is not fully onto the sector shaft of the steering box. The distance between the bottom of the steering box casting and the pitman arm should be aprox 9/16".

Additionally I measures a '68-'72 pitman arm (K6131) and a '73-'87 pitman arm (K6143) and they appear to be the same length and have close to the same offset.

I do not have an answer to your issue yet.

Thank you, I have solved my clearance issue with removing the spacers on the sway bar, so I think I am okay.

[LostMy65]

Any updates?

[Palf70Step]

When I did my 70 from manual to power (and the 64) you have to use the pitman arm that goes to the box ( 1984 in both of my cases) , not the truck. That and some of the tweaks to pull the sway bar down closer to the A-arm should do the trick.

[oliver63]

Has anyone ever figured this one out? I just installed a power steering box and Captain Fabs bracket. The steering shaft and drivers side inner tie rod end are hitting the frame. It appears the pitman arm is not the correct one. It is a Moog K6143. I have searched the forum and found several threads about this problem...but none of them have a solution for it.

[Palf70Step]

Far as I know, the idler arm, pitman arm must match to the year/setup your are using (like 73-87ish steering box). Did you change front brakes also? What spindles are you using?

[oliver63]

I have CPP spindles...but they have been on for a year. The only thing I have changed this time is going from manual steering to power steering. I have only installed the captains bracket which is cool, the box and pitman arm. I have found several threads about this problem...but none go as far as a solution.

Originally Posted by Palf70Step

Far as I know, the idler arm, pitman arm must match to the year/setup your are using (like 73-87ish steering box). Did you change front brakes also? What spindles are you using?

[luvbowties]

Originally Posted by oliver63

I have CPP spindles...but they have been on for a year. The only thing I have changed this time is going from manual steering to power steering. I have only installed the captains bracket which is cool, the box and pitman arm. I have found several threads about this problem...but none go as far as a solution.

SOLUTION IS FOUND AND STATED QUITE BRIEFLY IN Palf70Step'S 2 POSTS--HE STATES PRETTY MUCH JUST WHAT I DO/HAVE DONE, SUCCESSFULLY, ON PS CONVERSIONS ON 64-66'S IN THE PAST--INCLUDING MY OWN '66. HTH,
SAM

[Captainfab]

Member oliver63 as stated, is using a MOOG K6143 pitman arm which fits '73-'86 C series trucks.

Originally Posted by luvbowties

SOLUTION IS FOUND AND STATED QUITE BRIEFLY IN Palf70Step'S 2 POSTS--HE STATES PRETTY MUCH JUST WHAT I DO/HAVE DONE, SUCCESSFULLY, ON PS CONVERSIONS ON 64-66'S IN THE PAST--INCLUDING MY OWN '66. HTH,
SAM

Sorry oliver63, I do not have an answer for you. As you said, no one that has posted about this issue has ever posted back as to what the solution was. At this point all I can suggest is to double check that you have the steering box located according to the supplied template.

[65 C20]

oliver63 what year box are you using?
The box that I used was a 1970 with the standard thread hose fittings.
1970 box = moog 6131 pitman arm
I was told to only change the pitman arm and the idler arm stayed the same moog K14.
As far as I know my truck was original and only used Captains bracket the 70 box and the moog 6131 pitman arm with no issues.

Cal.

[oliver63]

Originally Posted by 65 C20

oliver63 what year box are you using?
The box that I used was a 1970 with the standard thread hose fittings.
1970 box = moog 6131 pitman arm
I was told to only change the pitman arm and the idler arm stayed the same moog K14.
As far as I know my truck was original and only used Captains bracket the 70 box and the moog 6131 pitman arm with no issues.

Cal.

I bought a new box from CPP. Most people think the K6143 and the K6131 seem to be the same. I ordered the K6131 and going to give it a try. I feel like the pitman arm is not going up on the steering gear far enough. I notice CaptainFab measured from the bottom of the box to the top of the pitman arm and got 9/16". Mine is measuring 3/4".

[vince1]

My steering box came off a 67 truck so maybe not original to that truck. The Pitman arm with a GM casting number is 5 1/4". It is mounted just shy of 1/2" to the box housing. When I get a chance I will measure the manual box Pitman arm that came off the truck to see if it is the same center to center length. At the time I thought it was.

The idler arm on my 66 truck looks original and measures 5 3/4 center to center. The drag link at center pretty closely parallels the cross member with about 1/4 inch clearance. Putting on a shorter idler arm might true it up a bit better or even skew it slightly the opposite way to the cross member. Putting on a shorter idler arm would definitely make the whole linkage set up run more true like as if it resembled a straight bar all the way across.

One thing I notice is that when making a tight turn left or right, the outboard wheel seems to want to push more than the inboard, like if you hit some pea gravel it will slip away. I don't know if a different length idler arm would change that.

[vince1]

I just had another look and my truck doesn't even have a sway bar so probably no help here to anybody.

[Palf70Step]

Don't know if this will help or not.

1972 Suburban pwr steering box and pitman arm. Stock 64 idler arm.

I used ECE 2.5" drop spindle (Plus 2" drop springs), ECE HD sway-bar. Because the spindles are for a 60-70 model, I use stock tie-rod ends inner and outer. It is close between the drivers inner tie rod and the front cross-member, but it doesn't hit ever. I had the same issue on my 70 that it was real close when I went to power steering and sway bar stuff, but never had an issue.
1st Pic is full lock to left
2nd pic is wheels striaght
3rd is passenger side

Do you have pictures of your's oliver?

[vince1]

Mine is still original cross member and no lowering or anything like that. I think I remember the new box using at least one of the holes that was used by the manual box.

Worn out manual box will soon be going for metal recycling.

[luvbowties]

Originally Posted by vince1

Mine is still original cross member and no lowering or anything like that. I think I remember the new box using at least one of the holes that was used by the manual box.

Worn out manual box will soon be going for metal recycling.

Hey vince1, you are correct. First one I ever did--having never seen one done before--I did just what you said. Dunno what it looked like on a front-end machine, but when I equalized the tie-rod end adjusters to obtain equal turning distances/degrees to left and to right, it drove perfect.

Iirc, I only mounted it with 3 bolts, same number as factory manual. I figured if 3 were sufficient to support the manual box, it would be sufficient for the power. When locating other 2 holes, I was careful to line up the drag link parallel to the cross member just as it was with the manual. I had to space the box outwards from the frame, and Ford 1/2-inch thread lugnuts with flat washers were the ideal thickness. This method was quick, used all original '64(I think that was the model) parts exc. for a newer box, and drove like it was supposed to.
Sam