Engine will not fire, coil questions.

[In The Ten Ring]

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

He's got an L6. Lots of room for the HEI distributor on a 250. 4WD V8s have the firewall/headroom issue.
I would get the points system going first, before the HEI transplant. I had a Pertronix and after 7 years it would cut out at freeway speeds [+3000 RPM, 60-65 MPH], went back to points for a year, then got HEI. My Autometer tach works just fine with all those systems.

When a member first mentioned the "no room for HEI/tight fit" issue I immediately thought "that guy must be talking about a V8." I didn't correct him then as I really don't want an HEI. I think it looks out of place, that big thing.

I've said the same thing before about other things though and later come to love those very things I was so against. At one time I was dead set against betting my life on a revolver but then I took a job as a motel clerk and only a revolver worked with the uniform. Now I still carry the same revolver in the same holster every time I leave the house. Maybe HEI and I have a similar destiny.

*Thanks for remembering what engine I have. I thought about that in the shower this evening.....I keep thinking everyone knows what engine I have and what I've done to my truck but that's really too much to ask anyone. I don't know what everyone else has in their truck.

['68OrangeSunshine]

Well, it sounds like you're almost sold on the Pertronix set up. They are fun, but I found GM's logistics made an AC/Delco/Remy-designed distributor and related ignition components, a necessity for reliability and supply reasons. You can find a GM dealer or local auto parts store with your components on the shelf anywhere. You may wait a couple of days for Fedex to bring you your factory-supported Pertronix piece-that -makes-it go. That assumes there is any factory support at PT. I went to another system.
Crane also made an electronic ignition, but Crane folded a few years ago.

On the other hand, dialing a goods points system is fun, and not too difficult with a timing light, a dwell meter and a vacuum gauge for leaning out the carb. The key is first class components -- which has become increasingly difficult to find for sale. Points, Condenser, Cap, Rotor, Coil are all expendable components, just like plugs and wires, and need to be upgraded constantly. I've always liked Blue Streak.

Unless you change your handle to ''Ten Ring, The L-Six Guy'', everyone is gonna assume you have the same engine as them. Human nature. I put my most-recently built 292 in my avatar, that gives the more observant ones a clue, I guess. People mean well, they just don't absorb all the initial info at first. It's only a truck forum.

[rockyrivermark]

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

Well, it sounds like you're almost sold on the Pertronix set up. They are fun, but I found GM's logistics made an AC/Delco/Remy-designed distributor and related ignition components, a necessity for reliability of supply reasons. You can find a GM dealer or local auto parts store with your components on the shelf anywhere. You may wait a couple of days for Fedex to bring you your factory-supported Pertronix piece-that -makes-it go. That assumes there is any factory support at PT. I went to another system.
Crane also made an electronic ignition, but Crane folded a few years ago.

On the other hand, dialing a goods points system is fun, and not too difficult with a timing light, a dwell meter and a vacuum gauge for leaning out the carb. The key is first class components -- which has become increasingly difficult to find for sale. Points, Condenser, Cap, Rotor, Coil are all expendable components, just like plugs and wires, and need to be upgraded constantly. I've always liked Blue Streak.

Unless you change your handle to ''Ten Ring, The L-Six Guy'', everyone is gonna assume you have the same engine as them. Human nature. I put my most-recently built 292 in my avatar, that gives the more observant ones a clue, I guess. People mean well, they just don't absorb all the initial info at first. It's only a truck forum.

I installed my HEI in a stock 350 with no clearance issues.
Really wasn't even see if behind the air filter.
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[VWNate1]

I think I covered the dwell and timing in your other thread, if not ask again as once you know how it's dead simple and will make even a worn out, smoking i6 engine run very strongly .

As far as pertronix, the normal failure is either failure to tech the coil for the proper resistance or, leaving the key on whilst you're doing other things, this over heats and damages any ignition system .

I have more than one Pertronix Ignitor running over twenty years and have never had one fail yet .

I've changed lots of Delco (original GM brand) ignition modules but never once on my own rigs and I search out old original Delco modules to carry as spares as I believe they're the best .

Delphi, maybe, I don't really trust Delphi .

The Devil, as they say, is truly in the details : how you build, use, maintain it has every thing to do with how much trouble any given machine gives you .

['68OrangeSunshine]

Supposedly the Ignitor II, which I had, did not burn out with the key left in ON too long. Also I had the Pertronix coil recommended for the Ignitor II, the Flamethrower II. My biggest mistake was buying it and leaving the Pertronix kit on the shelf for about 5 years. So I had no valid warranty claim.
I talked with the Pertronix Tech Rep on the phone, he said mail in the module and they would check it out. Then I never heard back from them. So I went to points.
Two possible factors are the seasonal high heat in Southern Arizona, and voltage spikes from the EVR.
My HEI has not failed. But it's only been on a year.

[Coley]

Ha....I'm guilty in assuming it was a V-8 truck...lol.
That said, I've got a '66 1/2 ton as well, with the 250-6 cylinder in it and I converted that over from points to pertronix.
The 6 cylinder pertronix unit I used in that was the Pertronix 1161 unit.....it works great, again I won't go back to points...lol

Coley

[VWNate1]

Leaving the ignition on without the engine running is bad practice no matter what .

Once you experience the improvement of breakerless ignition, no matter which one you choose, you'll never go back .

[In The Ten Ring]

While my dad was undergoing hernia repair yesterday I walked from the hospital over to Advance Auto and ordered a complete tune up set. New points, condenser, button cap, armature, distributor cap, and spark plug wires. I may have ordered new spark plugs also, I don't remember.

I meant to pick that up after taking him home but I was so tired I went to sleep on the couch and didn't wake up until 5 PM. I'll go over for it tomorrow.

I'll ask about timing (no plans to mess with that at this time) and points gap.

I now see how to adjust points gap and I see how much easier it is to do with the passenger inner fender off compared to reaching over the grill.

[VWNate1]

? What brand of parts does this chain sell ? .

Remember to rub the point faces with a clean rag until they're shiny as points come with an anti corrosion coating .

I use Isopropal (! SP !) alcohol from the .99 CENTS Store to clean them, beer DOESN'T WORK ! .

You'll need a tiny bit of distributor grease too, about the size of a broken off pencil tip, put it just inside the rubbing block and it'll self distribute .

? Maybe you can distract your Dad with Football ? it's really important to not stress the hernia repair until it knits fully, when they rip apart and need a second repair, it will hurt forevermore (guess how I know this ?) .

BTW : I have short (32") legs so I often stand on an old milk crate when doing tune ups etc.....

[In The Ten Ring]

I had them pick out there best parts they had listed. Can't say anything more than that.

Dad had mentioned the grease, I will try to remember to ask for that. Dad had also mentioned the part you are talking about, to grease that.

So I need some vodka to clean the points? *I actually hate beer.

[VWNate1]

No ;

Either go down into a Holler and get some juice right off the still or use isopropal alcohol ~ it's handy stuff .

Points lube is special grease BTW...

[VetteVet]

I bought a pertronix igniter II for my corvette 350 and the flamethrower coil, only to find out later that the coil was a 3 ohm coil that the six cylinders need, so I have to get the 1.8 ohm coil for the v-8s.

This is the resistance between the positive and negative terminals on the coil. If you don't get a reading or it's too much, then the coil is bad.
I can't remember why they are different for the sixes but they are.

Here's a diagram showing the check. It says .75 to ,8 but they are usually just over 1 ohm.



Here's a diagram showing the wiring of the pertronix ignition.

[In The Ten Ring]

Thanks for the diagram! I'll give it more of a look later.

My coil is now working, we got the truck started two days ago. Today I bought new points, condenser, button cap, distributor cap, and new plugs. I don't care for the drab color of the new spark plug wires, I want to find a set of orange ones. The points came with a capsule of grease.

[VWNate1]

VetteVet ;

You're wrong ~ the resistance of the coil is decreed by the voltage reaching it .

Read the instructions or manual .

[B. W.]

Originally Posted by VWNate1

VetteVet ;

You're wrong ~ the resistance of the coil is decreed by the voltage reaching it .

Read the instructions or manual .

VetteVet is talking about the internal resistance of the coil itself. The resistance is inherent to the design of the coil (how many turns or wraps of wire).

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by VWNate1

VetteVet ;

You're wrong ~ the resistance of the coil is decreed by the voltage reaching it .

Read the instructions or manual .

Good gawd you almost caused me to have a stroke.

[In The Ten Ring]

I think my thread has been hijacked.

I don't like the spark plugs wires I bought (grey). Anyone buy blue or red ones from Summit Racing?

Do they have pretty wires for 6 cylinders?

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by In The Ten Ring

I think my thread has been hijacked.

I don't like the spark plugs wires I bought (grey). Anyone buy blue or red ones from Summit Racing?

Do they have pretty wires for 6 cylinders?

Sure. Just buy a set of V8 wires and cut 'em down. You get two free plug wires with every set. Every 4th plugwire change is free.

[In The Ten Ring]

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

Sure. Just buy a set of V8 wires and cut 'em down. You get two free plug wires with every set. Every 4th plugwire change is free.

I decided to do that. My wires seem to work and there is no hurry. Next summer I'll go for some pretty wires.....just another project to add to the list. I returned the grey ones to Advance today.

[In The Ten Ring]

Just spoke with dad, he confirmed the original wires were black.

[VWNate1]

Like I said : the primary coil resistance is determined by the actual voltage reaching the power side of it, not the number of windings .

Either learn these basics or have ignition problems forever.......

[VetteVet]

It doesn't get any more basic than this.


Electrical Circuits

7 of 31





WHAT IS OHM'S LAW?
A simple relationship exists between voltage, current, and resistance in electrical circuits. Understanding this relationship is important for fast, accurate electrical problem diagnosis and repair.

OHM'S LAW
Ohm's Law says: The current in a circuit is directly proportional to the applied voltage and inversely proportional to the amount of resistance. This means that if the voltage goes up, the current flow will go up, and vice versa. Also, as the resistance goes up, the current goes down, and vice versa. Ohm's Law can be put to good use in electrical troubleshooting. But calculating precise values for voltage, current, and resistance is not always practical ... nor, really needed. A more practical, less time-consuming use of Ohm's Law would be to simply apply the concepts involved:

SOURCE VOLTAGE is not affected by either current or resistance. It is either too low, normal, or too high. If it is too low, current will be low. If it is normal, current will be high if resistance is low, or current will be low if resistance is high. If voltage is too high, current will be high.

CURRENT is affected by either voltage or resistance. If the voltage is high or the resistance is low, current will be high. If the voltage is low or the resistance is high, current will be low.

RESISTANCE is not affected by either voltage or current. It is either too low, okay, or too high. If resistance is too low, current will be high at any voltage. If resistance is too high, current will be low if voltage is okay.

NOTE: When the voltage stays the same, such as in an Automotive Circuit... current goes up as resistance goes down, and current goes down as resistance goes up. Bypassed devices reduce resistance, causing high current. Loose connections increase resistance, causing low current.



If you want to understand how ignition works just grab the coil wire while the engine is cranking.

[VetteVet]

Here's a good diagnosis for coil condition. It contains information on how to check the primary resistance of the coil. There are several websites on this and they all say the same thing.
http://clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/ign-04.htm

[VWNate1]

Sorry to be so late with this, here are (I hope) the coil power relays I mentioned, you should use these to run any no breaker points ignition:

Well that's odd, I can see it in manage attachments but it won't show up when I use the paper clip to add it here.....

I'll go fiddle with it and try again later, sorry .

[VWNate1]

There it is ! .

These relays are cheap and plentiful in most junkyards, they're rated higher than most expect (look for the "xxA" marking) and they're all rated for continuous duty making them excellent for high power lamps, HEI ignitions, blowers, on and on .\

Try to not buy Chinese made ones although I've never had a Chinese one fail yet .