47-59 Help Please - 4x4 S10 swap questions

[dsraven]

have you looked at the copart site or the calgary salvage disposal site for calgary? you could buy a complete wreck and salvage the driveline parts you need, then sell the rest.

[JayB22]

Originally Posted by dsraven

have you looked at the copart site or the calgary salvage disposal site for calgary? you could buy a complete wreck and salvage the driveline parts you need, then sell the rest.

I haven’t. I’ll make some calls tomorrow and see if I can find anything that could work.

I’m going to give myself a couple days to really figure out what I want out of my motor setup. This has definitely helped me get a few things sorted out.

I took a little break from thinking about the motor and found some seats to try in the truck. I saw a video on YouTube where a guy used a blazer or
Jimmy back seat for his driver seat and it got me thinking. I checked marketplace and found some back seats out of a Lexus. I have some frame work to do and just finished cutting the height down on the seat so it doesn’t hit the back windows anymore. It actually fits pretty good. There’s even metal brackets on the back that hook onto the original metal frame. I’m not completely sold on it long term, but for $40 I couldn’t pass it up.

[suburban99]

I started my s10 swap about 6 months ago. This forum is fantastic for information. I read Skymangs how to thread about 10 times...it has excellent information. My goal was for an LS powered street truck. I have swapped LS engines into a few vehicles and don't even consider any other engine. You get the power and reasonable economy. My 72 K10 went from 9MPG to around 18 MPG. It was a 350/350 ..now it's a 6.0 and 4L60E. LT1swap is also my go to for LS swapping info. I haven't yet fired the LS in my 50 GMC but will soon. All the info you need is here. The guys on this forum are top notch and knowledgeable. I am in BC so I know about the pricing of things. Thankfully the border is open again so I can order direct out of the US again. Good luck with your project.

[layinrocker65]

I have done an S-10 frame swap on my 53 and having done two different turbo LS swaps on an S-10 based 4x4 chassis(Syclone and Typhoon), Id argue that you are better off starting with a 4x4 chassis vs a 2wd chassis.

If you run 4wd, the motor will be so far back in the chassis, you wont have clearance issues with the oil pan as long as you chose the right pan. An H3 pan would be my best guess. You will also have better clearance for headers/manifolds because the control arms mount to the outside of the frame instead of the top. The front track width is wider for the 4x4 which will be a better fit in the AD fenders so you wont have to run spacers. There are easy brake upgrades and coil over upgrades for the 4x4 chassis as well. You could run a manual or auto trans with any drivers side drop t-case. Even running AWD would be easy and cheap if you run a 4472 t-case out of an awd astro van.

If you want to run 2wd, all the 4x4 front stuff unbolts leaving all kinds of room for activities. I cant comment on if you would need to run stub shafts to keep the hubs together but I have cut CVs to do that on a Colorado and its really easy to do.

[JayB22]

Thanks for the replies. It’s nice to hear there has been some luck with the LS swaps especially with the 4x4.

Layinrocker- did you have any clearance issues with the torsion bar mounts when you moved the motor back? I’m guessing you had to do all new driveshafts once the motor was moved back?

[JayB22]

Originally Posted by suburban99

I started my s10 swap about 6 months ago. This forum is fantastic for information. I read Skymangs how to thread about 10 times...it has excellent information. My goal was for an LS powered street truck. I have swapped LS engines into a few vehicles and don't even consider any other engine. You get the power and reasonable economy. My 72 K10 went from 9MPG to around 18 MPG. It was a 350/350 ..now it's a 6.0 and 4L60E. LT1swap is also my go to for LS swapping info. I haven't yet fired the LS in my 50 GMC but will soon. All the info you need is here. The guys on this forum are top notch and knowledgeable. I am in BC so I know about the pricing of things. Thankfully the border is open again so I can order direct out of the US again. Good luck with your project.

I’ve been spending most of my time reading through the build threads. There is definitely a ton of knowledge on this site. There’s been a few members that have reached out through PMs as well to offer support. My biggest hangup on the Ls swap right now is making sure it fits the 4x4 setup as well as finding a affordable transmission setup to work with it. I’m getting more and more tempted to find a lower power motor and try to take advantage of the T5 trans and transfer case that came with the truck. Allows me to get the truck on the road and saves some budget to make sure the rest of the build is done proper.

[dsraven]

your biggest savings for an LS will come from buying a complete running donor vehicle. you get the engine and trans you want, as a set that work together, the wiring harness & computer for that engine and trans along with the drive by wire throttle pedal and module for that set up. fuse and relay blocks. seats, steering column, extra wheels, and all the peripherals that can nickle and dime you later if you simply buy an engine here and a trans there. a throttle pedal here and a module to operate it there, etc. if you plan to do an LS eventually but just wanna get it drivng then go with what works-an S10 v6. look at the insurance write off lots. sell what you don't use when you're done. heck, you might even like the v6 once youre driving it, but at least your truck is finished and driveable and the LS engine swap can be a separate project done later when you have a bit more cash and time. check the kijiji ads as well. there was a guy near chestermere who was buying up S10's at the write off lot and parting them out. he may sell a vehicle with the stuff you need or just do a "kit" with what you need.
just my 2 cents but if you ask anybody who has done a project most will tell you to get a plan and try hard to stick to it. otherwise your budget will be blown on stuff you do ahead of time or parts you buy ahead of time before the plan changed. how many times have you seen a project vehicle for sale that has nice wheels and tires, a cool stereo and boxes full of chrome parts but the project stalled due to lack of money, ability, time or the guy felt the project had gotten so big he would never be done. doing a frame swap is a big project all by itself and doing an LS swap is another project that takes time and research to get the parts that work together. getting an engine/computer here and a trans there can also be costly as some of the internals or sensors change between different years so you end up doing mods you never thought of, buying different components like shift solenoids etc if going with an auto. if going with a std trans and transfer case first ensure the std trans you have is good to take the torque from the LS and also that it is in good shape inside, then ensure the transfer case is also rated for the torque and in good shape, then do some dimensional checks to see if the LS will even fit in the truck with the 4x4 option and still have room for a rad, fan, etc. some of the s10 forums may also be a good place to look since quite a few of the s10 guys have done v8 conversions. with the 4x4 you will need to be able to clear the cross member under the engine so that can limit the fore to aft placement of the v8 engine.
you just gotta get a plan that will take you through the steps in a sequence that gets you on the road for now but can be upgraded easy enough to get the combination you want later. or a plan that gets the engine and trans of choice right away, along with the frame swap and all the costs of doing both, and still allow you to buy grub, gas and all the other family requirements. finding an LS core engine for cheap or borrowing one from somebody would really help you figure things out. I have done that before on projects. I have used a bare block, bare heads held on with a couple of bolts, a set of manifolds that will fit between the frame rails, an oil pan that will fit around the cross member, etc. just to see how it fits or if it fits.

[layinrocker65]

The crossmember “under” the engine of the 4x4 frame is in no way a problem. It will sit under the very front of the engine. It’s so far forward that it’s mostly in front of the steering.

Adding more info:
The only clearance concern will be the front differential on the drivers side where the oil pan will sit.

[dsraven]

been awhile since I worked on a 4x4 s10. I remember doing a block heater on one and thought I shouldda just pullled the engine, lol.
if you wanna go 2wd but use the 4x4 frame you can just cut the bell section of the cv axle joint apart so you end up with the splined and threaded spindle section and then install and torque that like normal. if you have one that is extra long in the threaded section you can cut some of that off as well, just leave enough threads for the nut to fully contact

[joedoh]

i think we are getting farther afield...

layinrocker did an s10 swap on a 2wd frame. he did an LS swap on a SY/TY. neither needed the transfer case moved back, which will hit the torsion bar crossmember after only a couple inches. his recommendation to use coilovers is in line with that problem though, but coilover kits are pretty expensive, especially when compared to just buying a 2wd frame. if you want awd, and you want to move the motor back, a coilover kit is what you want.

one of the guys using my kit moved the crossmember back and used silverado torsion bars which are longer, so I dont know if that works yet but I am watching.

if you want to switch your 4x4 frame to 2wd, you can take apart the cv joints but the bearings are probably due for replacement anyway, and I think the 98+ 2wd bearing will fit the earlier frame.

[layinrocker65]

The transfer case gets moved back in the syty swaps. Both run 4l80e which are longer then 700r4s, then require a 1/2" adapter for the transfer case pushing it even further back. Approximately 3.5". On top of that, the Sy 4472 cases have a longer output than the Ty 4472 cases(I have ran both with torsion bars). If the torsion bar cross member gets in the way in the back, just notch it. not a big deal given the amount of work it takes to swap frames.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by layinrocker65

The transfer case gets moved back in the syty swaps. Both run 4l80e which are longer then 700r4s, then require a 1/2" adapter for the transfer case pushing it even further back. Approximately 3.5". On top of that, the Sy 4472 cases have a longer output than the Ty 4472 cases(I have ran both with torsion bars). If the torsion bar cross member gets in the way in the back, just notch it. not a big deal given the amount of work it takes to swap frames.

noted.

the 4.3 needs moved back 7.25-7.5 inches to have room for radiator and fan, 5.5 for just a radiator. it might be possible to notch for the tailshaft at 5.5", at 7.25 i think the transfer case is in the same spot as the crossmember, occupying the entirety of it. an LS swap will need more than 5.5, seems like 7.5-8" rearward.

some guys mount their LS really high for using the truck pan, if he did that maybe the transfer case would be over the crossmember. i also saw a guy reclock his transfer case on a dodge, i think you can get the same kind of clocking ring for a chevy transfer case. Its all guessing by me.

really though, all the extra work (and cost) just to use the frame you have.. if you plan to keep it awd thats great, but you are plowing new roads here. you may not find explicit instructions on how to do it, but you will have my respect when its done.

[JayB22]

Dsraven - your post pretty much sums up all of my thinking lately. Trying to find the right balance for the truck. My foggy vision for the truck comes from me not really planning on building on until after I bought it. I only rushed into buying it to help a family friend get rid of it. But now that I have it I’m trying to find the best and most efficient way to get the truck working and on the road. I didn’t research this far enough to get all the answers before buying the frame I did. Now I’m trying to make it work. I’m pretty well set on doing a modest build. Planning on a nice sounding v8 with around 300hp. I want to exhaust all options to see if I can use the t5 trans that came with the frame. Given it’s already setup for 4wd I’m going to see what I can do to make it all work together properly. I’m hoping it’s not a big waste of time.

Layinrocker65 - thanks for the info. I’m hoping I’m able to make some of this work. It looks like I’ve got about 4” behind the transfer case to the torsion bar cross member.

Joedoh - thanks for all of the clarifications. Have you ever played with mounting the body slightly more forward to avoid moving the motor back as far? I know this isn’t ideal, just curious if you could get away with maybe a inch or so movement. It seems like every little bit could help. I’m going to try my hand at some body mounts this weekend. See if I can get a rough idea on how it’s going to sit and try to get a better visualization on how it all needs to be moved etc. I have a feeling I’m going to get used to putting the body on and off this frame while I test fit things. Also hoping to pick up a motor in the next week.

The family friend that I got the truck off has taken a turn for the worse health wise. My big hope is to get this together in time to get him a ride in his old truck. I think I’d figured out my steering column and will get that on order right away, same with the wiring harness.

One question I do have for those that have been down this road a few times. Has anyone ever successfully used the original parking brake handle in the stock location. Mine was on the floor by the gear shifter. It’s a big long handle and instantly reminded me of the drift handles that the hoonigan guys use. I don’t plan on using this to drift in anyway but thought it would be kind of neat to re use the original handle and design.

Joedoh

[dsraven]

before you get married to the T5 maybe check the torque rating for the one you have and compare that to the torque output of the engine of choice. there are a couple of different T5 trans, some with a smaller input shaft than others, so it would suck to get it all together and then have the trans blow up on you. it may depend on the type of driving you do as well. fast starts, burnouts, dumping the clutch equals shorter life. also check the rating for the transfer case, just to be sure. otherwise you may be better off with an o/d auto. that would make a difference on the wiring harness you need possibly. the S10 T5 has a really low 1st gear I think too.

[JayB22]

I’ve looked into the specs on the t5. It’s definitely not the most robust transmission out there. Considering I had a free one I was tempted to use it. I’ve been looking for other options but there’s not much available right now. For short term goals of trying to finish the frame swap and get the truck driveable I’m hoping the transmission will hold up if I put a mild motor in it. I have read lots of reviews on the t5 stating that they don’t take abuse well. So I’m hoping I can manage with it for a few years while I drive the truck around and work on a bigger picture restoration down the road.

[JayB22]

I thought I’d post some more of my progress pictures here to not clog up the S10 how to page.

I got my cab mounts built and tacked into place. I went the more simple method and just used some 1/8” 4” square tubing with a 3/16 top plate. I botched my front cab mount 1 1/4” to go over the frame. I couldn’t find a accurate reference point that would work from the 2WD frames. Measuring from the oval frame hole didn’t work nor did measuring from the frame splice. I have the extended cab 4wd frame for reference. I used the 30.5” from center of front wheels back to center of front mount. If someone’s looking for a reference mark on the frame, where the bulges out there is a 1” hole. It works out to measure from the back side of the 1” hole, back 5/8” to the front side of the front cab mount. I then just measured back from my front mount the 33.25” to front of rear mount and mounted them there. The front cab mount sits 4” above the frame and the rear sits 4.75” above the frame. I still need to sort out some body mounts as the ones off my s10 were rotten so no holes have been drilled through yet. I also still need to finalize my cab fitment before fully welding the mounts in place and adding some gussets to the rear mounts.

The body sits great over the front wheels and I’m really liking the stance it gets with the 4wd axles and the tires that came on the truck. I’m not sure what the offset is on the wheels but they stick out about 4” from the front of the hole that the lug nuts go in.

[JayB22]

I had to notch the firewall about 8-10” up but it all looks like it’s going to fit nicely.

[dsraven]

will you set the box on before final welding any mounts? just to ensure the wheels set in the fender openings correctly?

[dsraven]

notching a firewall is pretty standard stuff. just to make it easier to install carpet or rubber flooring, think about how you will fill that hole when it comes time. if you don't have the sheet metal tools to make something whizzie, think about what you can find to make the shape. maybe a steel wheelbarrow sheel, maybe a piece of another vehicle's firewall, maybe something you make yourself. you need to leave room for the aceel pedal and your foot.

[JayB22]

Originally Posted by dsraven

will you set the box on before final welding any mounts? just to ensure the wheels set in the fender openings correctly?

I wasn’t planning to. I have the 9’ box and from my rough measurements I’ll have to cut about 17” out of the box to make it fit the frame so I will have some flexibility to make it all line up.

With the torsion bar suspension I wasn’t able to cut the frame horns back as far as I’d like so I still have some work to do there before I can get the front grill on where it needs to be and to where I can try the hood fitment. I was working on this late last night by myself so it took a bit just to get the fenders and grill bolted on to where I could check the cab mounts.

It’s exciting to see the fenders on and start to see some of the vision for the truck. Being new to all of this I’ll definitely be doing a few extra test fits just to help see the next step and plan it out accordingly.

Thanks for all of your help so far as well.

[JayB22]

Originally Posted by dsraven

notching a firewall is pretty standard stuff. just to make it easier to install carpet or rubber flooring, think about how you will fill that hole when it comes time. if you don't have the sheet metal tools to make something whizzie, think about what you can find to make the shape. maybe a steel wheelbarrow sheel, maybe a piece of another vehicle's firewall, maybe something you make yourself. you need to leave room for the aceel pedal and your foot.

With this in mind I’ve been eying up some steel barrels locally. My thinking was it would also work in case I had to do a small tub for the rear. I also have a metal brake at my shop so I was thinking if the barrel idea doesn’t work I can just put a couple bends in some sheet metal to make it all fit. I’ll probably have to make a few templates first.

My motor mounts should be in Monday or Tuesday. I’m hoping to also grab the motor for it one of those days as well. This way I can see how much I need to notch the cross member and get everything where it needs to be.

[dsraven]

good idea on the box cut down, you can figure it out when you get there and cut off as much as you need to. something that a bunch of guys do, too, is use the steel box floor from a newer truck, like an s10, and that gives you a steel floor, wheel tubs etc. just weld on the cross sills where you need them. check some builds by joedoh as I think he does that. a lot of the newer steel boxes have the anti rust coating, scuff and paint or leave the color it is just cover the weld areas so it doesn't rust. just a few ideas for you.
if you have nothing but time you can also peruse the scrap steel yards, like federal metals, as they sell scrap by the pound. you never know whats there till you go and it is a bit of a hike for you to drive is all. I would call them first just to mke sure they still allow pedestrians in the yard. they sell new steel in lengths as well if needed. cheaper than metal supermarket. they have a website with prices I think. you may also try some welding shopsas they usually have smaller left over pieces. there is a fabicator in crossfield that builds dumpster boxes and i have had them make some longer folded parts for me. cross sills for the box etc.

[joedoh]

looks great! you should add your info and pics to the s10 swap thread so that other guys can benefit!

[JayB22]

Originally Posted by joedoh

looks great! you should add your info and pics to the s10 swap thread so that other guys can benefit!

Okay I wasn’t sure if I should post it there or not. When I remove the cab I’ll get some more photos as well and try to help out the best I can.

[joedoh]

yeah its the catch all for questions and answers so new info is great