Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? - Page 3 - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

BigBlocksRule · 10-02-2013, 06:58 AM

^ It made 117 more hp with aftermarket rectangular port heads, intake and cam swap.
Ain't hardly apples-to-apples.
And 2 1/8" primary headers are too big for the rectangular combo, waaay too big for peanuts.

LynnJr · 10-04-2013, 01:12 PM

Yeah I linked the wrong story.I will try and find the right one.
If your going from peanuts to large ovals the manifold is getting changed or there is no reason for the swap.Cam needs changing no matter what his plans are.
In the old days we would pick up an engine at the wrecker and first order of business was to throw the peanut heads in the scrap pile.
Today they are considered good.

INSIDIOUS '86 · 10-04-2013, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LynnJr

Yeah I linked the wrong story.I will try and find the right one.
If your going from peanuts to large ovals the manifold is getting changed or there is no reason for the swap.Cam needs changing no matter what his plans are.
In the old days we would pick up an engine at the wrecker and first order of business was to throw the peanut heads in the scrap pile.
Today they are considered good.

Today there is more widespread knowledge of cylinder heads and cams and what's good for what and good combos.

BigBlocksRule · 10-05-2013, 06:49 AM

Waaay back in the day, nobody would dream of building a 454 without those big honkin' rectangular port heads. Ovals were for old lady cars and peanut ports were for tow rigs and industrial engines.
Large ovals are generally still the best choice for hot street and street/strip engines. Peanut port heads can be made to work for the street, but with similar combos, the large oval 781/049 heads will out power peanut port heads and are still the better choice in all but a dedicated tow motor.

D.FENS · 12-31-2013, 05:36 PM

IMO this guy figured it out. From the speedtalk forums, in a thread about tow rigs.

"One of the local Super Stock racers, Mike Lynch, was one of the first, if not the first, to take a stock carbureted 454 truck, add a mild cam, a set of headers, and the intake and heads off of a 67 396/350. It was like a whole different animal, the truck would pull any trailer you put behind it back then, never ran hot, and got decent fuel mileage.

Later, I built a 0.040" over forged flat top 454, same heads as Mike head, with 2.19 and 1.88 valves, some porting, a Weiand dual plane, 1-3/4" Hedman Camaro headers, and a Comp 268 cam. It made 450HP and 480 foot pounds of torque, it got 12 MPG with a 28' all steel goose neck trailer with 10,000 pounds of cabbage on it, there was maybe 2500 pounds of cabbage on the truck. It was an older truck, all steel, steel flat bed, steel wheels, 3.73 gears, and 3 speed automatic with no over drive. It went 200,000 miles before a guy ran him off the road and totaled the truck"

More:

"8:1 compression leads to glowing exhaust manifolds, with cracks, excessive coolant temps, with the attending coolant system damage, low power, and poor fuel mileage. As soon as I got mine up above 9:1, all those problems went away. I didn't have detonation, because I was no longer lugging the engine to death at high temperatures for extended periods of time. I wouldn't give a thin dime for a low compression gasoline engine in a tow vehicle, I've seen what compression will do, and it is great.

You don't need a lot of timing, you don't need a lot of fuel, and you don't need to run those "RV cams" with such short valve timing that all you get is detonation and an engine that is sucking wind at 3000 RPM while you're stuck in second gear trying to pull a hill at 30 MPH with a line of traffic behind you cursing your very existence. Even GM finally wised up and quit building those sick 8:1 454 truck engines with 220cc intake ports and flat intake manifolds.

Build one right and you can also say good bye to burned thrust bearings, blue and/or ballooned torque converters, and trails of white smoke from boiled transmission fluid."

"If you'll add a little camshaft, you can run over 9:1 compression for more torque without the excessive cylinder pressure from the small RV cams, and when you have to pull at 3/4 throttle up a hill at 3500 to 4000 RPM, you'll have a lot more torque to do it with.

The problem with those small cams and low compression is you can't make mid range power, so when you need to drop back to second gear to pull a hill, you stay stuck there, because you have torque dropping rapidly above 2500 RPM because it can't breathe through 205 degrees duration @ 0.050 tappet lift, and then the low compression becomes no compression at 3500 to 4000 RPM, your EGT goes through the roof, because your combustion temperature is out of sight, and then you're pinging the rings out of it. You can't put any timing in it at all to make up for lacking compression, because you're already detonating it to death. Then you'll be wondering why you're stuck with "all big block Chevy engines use a little oil" because you've beaten the rings, ring lands, and valve guides to death.

It's a 454, or bigger, it's not a 350, trying to make it breath through 205 degrees @ 0.050 is like feeding it through a straw. With a 205 @ 0.050" flat tappet and 8:1 compression, especially on 110 with 6 degrees advance, torque is over with at 3000 RPM, and there simply is no HP. So when you drop back to the next gear, and turn 3500 RPM to pull that hill, it just lugs and surges.

I've tried it your way, and tried it mine. My way I top the same hill going 65MPH instead of 45MPH, my headers aren't warped, my coolant temperature is 190 instead of 210, and everything under the hood is happy."

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28801

D.FENS · 12-31-2013, 05:43 PM

This build seems to be related - TBI 454 build in a Sub. Buddy bumped up the compression, slid in a pretty snotty sounding Comp Cams retrofit roller made for TBI 454SS trucks and did the Moates ECU tune.

http://www.performancetrucks.net/for...burban-515920/

The build thread kinda stops short with him talking about some ping issues under load. I've been in communication with him, apparently the engine builder installed the cam either 4 degrees or 4 teeth retarded (not sure which). Got that resolved and now it's a hoss. Only drawback is it needs 93 octane with the hotter of two ignition maps. Says it's reasonably happy on 87 otherwise.

Gotta wonder how that cam would work with a fairly conservative oval port head, or even aluminum Edelbrocks. Since it's patterned with a peanut port in mind it might not work at all.

LynnJr · 12-31-2013, 07:05 PM

Here is a link to a guy making 800 HP with Oval Port cast iron heads.We use to toss them into the scrap pile for weight.
http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/t...7037040826/p/4

Lynn

SCOTI · 12-31-2013, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LynnJr

Here is a link to a guy making 800 HP with Oval Port cast iron heads.We use to toss them into the scrap pile for weight.
http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/t...7037040826/p/4

Lynn

Good info but seems to be a bit far from what the thread is about (what it might take to get 454tbi motors to generate ~400hp).

I know mine runs now but only has a few miles around the local neighborhood. Because of the limited seat time, I can't say how well the combo runs. I'm finishing up the rear suspension so I should have it on the road by February.

If it still feels lethargic, I'll go 6.0....

**texassquarebodies** · 12-31-2013, 10:36 PM

I had a 1989 CC with a 454 tbi.
I installed Msd wires, coil, distributor, and 3" single exhaust and did a really good tune on it. Cut the ridges off around the top of the tbi and smoothed them over. It would smoke the tires from a stand still !

I would look down at the speedo and be doin 80 mph and not even now it.
All this while pullin a 20' steel trailer and a 3/4, 4x4 on top.
I got 12 mpg regularly, and with a trailer maybe a lil less

anubisani · 01-01-2014, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texassquarebodies

I had a 1989 CC with a 454 tbi.
I installed Msd wires, coil, distributor, and 3" single exhaust and did a really good tune on it. Cut the ridges off around the top of the tbi and smoothed them over. It would smoke the tires from a stand still !

I would look down at the speedo and be doin 80 mph and not even now it.
All this while pullin a 20' steel trailer and a 3/4, 4x4 on top.
I got 12 mpg regularly, and with a trailer maybe a lil less

NICE did you remove the air tubes n pump

**texassquarebodies** · 01-01-2014, 02:35 AM

That truck had ALL the smog stuff on the motor. Even had the belt on the smog pump. I did gut the converter though when I had the exhaust done.

Reworking the tbi airflow is your best bet for power without getting into the motor.

**57NAPCO** · 01-01-2014, 10:12 AM

I had this big block guru build me a big block for my 76 dually a couple of years ago, best thing I ever did. Dynoed at 455hp with 528 ft lbs of torque. I have no affiliation with him, just a satisfied customer.

http://www.vortecproperformance.com/...binations.html

BigBlocksRule · 01-01-2014, 11:13 AM

^ Mark Jones (VortecPro) builds some amazing engines using factory cast iron heads. I have no doubt he could build anything to fit any application. He'd be one of the first I'd consult with when looking for a powerful engine.

eldogg · 01-01-2014, 11:46 AM

I don't have any clue what kind of HP/TQ mine makes, but it will pull anything.

My combo is .030 flat tops, stock peanut ports with stainless valves & good Serdi valve job, roller tip rocker arms, smallest Summit cam 208/218 duration .475/.500 lift, Edelbrock TBI intake and TES headers, 3" single exhaust with a HUGE Magnaflow muffler, TBIChips.com chip LT1 fuel pump, TH400, 4:10 gears.

Gets 10-12mpg around town and 8-10mpg hwy.

D.FENS · 01-01-2014, 12:37 PM

I found the links / info above researching 454 TBI performance build on Google. There's some good info on 454ss.com, if you can pick it out of all the arguing. Signal to noise ratio is kinda low there.

It seems that raising the compression about a point or a point and half, with increasing airflow (either through a big roller cam, or with a milder cam and some better heads) is the way to make it happen.

I'm not so sure picking up 50 - 100 CFM from a ported TB is gonna make THAT much difference (until you get the intake / exhaust opened up anyway), but it can't hurt, and it's cheap so what the hell. Probably just being clean with fresh injectors would make up most of the difference.

Dumping the OE manifolds (intake and exhaust) would be a given, as well as turning the fuel pressure up a little. Or a lot.

A decent tune through using Moates or Dynamic EFI seems to be a must. The factory ECU processor is bog slow and doesn't allow for much in the way of fuel / ignition mapping. Some Megasquirt fans too, but mostly on the 4X4 sites.

D.FENS · 01-02-2014, 10:06 AM

Was going to add this in an edit, but on here the edit option disappears after a little while. Interesting. Only V Bulletin site I've seen do that.

Anyway. Comparatively speaking:

Hot Rod mag did a 6.0 LQ9 LS motor buildup a while back. They were able to break 400hp and 450ft/lbs. with just headers and an ECU flash. Keep in mind this is a 9, with 10:1 compression, not the 9.5:1 LQ4.

Most of the LS swaps I've seen dollar figures for are averaging mid 4's to about 6K high, with a few higher and lower. I'm guessing a 6.0 with a 4L80E would run to the high end of that so let's say $6,000 in the truck and running.

On the other end, most of the "low buck" BBC builds I've researched average $2500 to just under 4, for the long block. Parts aren't that bad but machine shop work is out of sight these days. Using the info I posted about combined with what I picked out from 454ss.com I'm guessing 375 - 400hp with over 500ft/lbs.

Crunching numbers hardcore over Xmas holidays shows that, with machine work I'm looking roughly 5K low to 6 high, that's the motor in the truck and running, some performance goodies, freshened up TH400, new radiator, rebuilt TB, tune for the ECU, and fixing all the little stuff that's broken or worn out.

Now I know somebody said the other day they could "rebuild" a BBC for under $800 but I have to wonder what kind of parts they using and who's doing the machine work in that build.

*nekkidhillbilly* · 01-02-2014, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meatwagon83

people around really drank the ls kool aide didnt they? 400 horse out of a 454 is simple and will have tons more torque than an ls

i think i mentioned this before but the tq in the 6.0 or 6.2 is on par with a 454. the 6.2 stomps everything but the 70 engines. the 70 ls6 made around 500 ft lbs and was very high compression and runs on leaded gas. building a 454 to 400 hp is going to have about the same tq as a 6.2 and still have less power. its hard to beat the ls combo sorry. you can shave down and hog out 454s heads to get 400 hp but then its gonna run on higher octane and be thirsty. or do aftermarket heads but by the time you sink all the money in you can have a ls engine that making the same power out of the box. to the op you could super charge your 454. thats the cheapest easiest option.

meatwagon83 · 01-02-2014, 10:29 PM

a cam intake and headers will get a 454 to 400 horse as far as heads go 400 horse can be done with stock peanut ports

*nekkidhillbilly* · 01-03-2014, 08:14 PM

and then your making the same power as a 6.2 or some of the 6.0s

meatwagon83 · 01-03-2014, 10:39 PM

yes, for a quarter of the money and they make more torque

D.FENS · 01-03-2014, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meatwagon83

yes, for a quarter of the money and they make more torque

Wrong.

You came on here blowing smoke about building a BBC for $800. Not sure what kinda parts you build motors with, or maybe you do hillbilly rebuilds with no machine work.

Truth is that an LS swap costs about the same as building a BBC, turn-key for turn-key.

The LS with a 4L80E will have overdrive, and the BBC will have MAYBE 50 - 75 more ft/lbs of torque. MAYBE.

I researched it and posted what I found to help people make an informed decision.

BigBlocksRule · 01-04-2014, 07:22 AM

D.FENS, why don't you research an apples-to-apples comparison? That would require a Gen 6 454 (port injection, hydraulic roller cam, just like an LS). I've bought 4 in the past year, didn't pay $1000 for any of 'em WITH the 4L80E. They don't wear any more than an LS, crack the heads and there's still hone marks in the bores, so there's no rebuilding to be done. $600 gets a complete wiring harness, spend another $100 and it's repinned to run the 411 PCM that the LS engines use. Tune it like an LS and it will run off and leave it. The LS won't be within 50 - 75lbs of torque, more like twice that much.
I have nothing against LS engines - actually have a 6.0L iron block with LS3 heads that I'll stroke to make a 402 for my turbo race-only Firebird. Also have everything I need to build an LS7 as well. They're incredible engines, GM really did their homework when they designed them. But when it comes to towing grunt, they ain't got what it takes. GM decided to go with diesel engines for that...nobody I know does any amount of heavy towing with any LS engine, they'll spin bearings so fast it'll make your head spin.

meatwagon83 · 01-04-2014, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.FENS

Wrong.

You came on here blowing smoke about building a BBC for $800. Not sure what kinda parts you build motors with, or maybe you do hillbilly rebuilds with no machine work.

Truth is that an LS swap costs about the same as building a BBC, turn-key for turn-key.

The LS with a 4L80E will have overdrive, and the BBC will have MAYBE 50 - 75 more ft/lbs of torque. MAYBE.

I researched it and posted what I found to help people make an informed decision.

if it doesnt need machine work i dont do it, not on a stock rebuild, and i have an uncle that does my head work dirt cheap so yeah, about $800 for those of us who dont like to waste money and think they are better than others for doing so........oh, and i like how you used hillbilly in the pejorative sense, must be lonely up there in that ivory tower!

and a 4l80e bolts right up to a big block too

D.FENS · 01-04-2014, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBlocksRule

D.FENS, why don't you research an apples-to-apples comparison? That would require a Gen 6 454 (port injection, hydraulic roller cam, just like an LS). I've bought 4 in the past year, didn't pay $1000 for any of 'em WITH the 4L80E. They don't wear any more than an LS, crack the heads and there's still hone marks in the bores, so there's no rebuilding to be done. $600 gets a complete wiring harness, spend another $100 and it's repinned to run the 411 PCM that the LS engines use. Tune it like an LS and it will run off and leave it. The LS won't be within 50 - 75lbs of torque, more like twice that much.
I have nothing against LS engines - actually have a 6.0L iron block with LS3 heads that I'll stroke to make a 402 for my turbo race-only Firebird. Also have everything I need to build an LS7 as well. They're incredible engines, GM really did their homework when they designed them. But when it comes to towing grunt, they ain't got what it takes. GM decided to go with diesel engines for that...nobody I know does any amount of heavy towing with any LS engine, they'll spin bearings so fast it'll make your head spin.

I've talked to both Dirty Larry and Blake H and read their build threads (Larry has a really good 8.1 swap resource thread on one of off road sites). The HP/TQ figures on the 8.1 look good, but.....

I stopped short on researching that swap because one, the swap has to come from either a motorhome or a G-van (otherwise swapping the accessories and mounts costs $$$$$), and two, the few salvage yards near me that have an 8.1 on the shelf are trying to bend people over on them. Try more like $2500 for just a longblock - not sure where or how you guys buy stuff so cheap but here it's not like that, they've learned how to turn scrap into gold. And they're willing to sit on the stuff until somebody is either dumb or desperate enough to pay top dollar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meatwagon83

if it doesnt need machine work i dont do it, not on a stock rebuild, and i have an uncle that does my head work dirt cheap so yeah, about $800 for those of us who dont like to waste money and think they are better than others for doing so........oh, and i like how you used hillbilly in the pejorative sense, must be lonely up there in that ivory tower!

and a 4l80e bolts right up to a big block too

I build motors right so they last. If you can build it once and get 200K out of it then it's not wasting money.

You contradicted yourself pretty bad - you keep blowing sunshine and rainbows up your own ass about your $800 454's that make 400hp, but then you say "just a stock rebuild", we all know a stock rebuild isn't gonna make the number.

In addition, most of us don't have an uncle who does machine work for us for little or nothing. So good for you, but the numbers you spitting don't have anything to do with real world application.

IT's better to budget for a full rebuild and all the machine work, and not actually need it, as opposed to getting in there and having the project stalled (maybe permanently) because of money.

BigBlocksRule · 01-04-2014, 10:37 AM

I'm referring to a '96 - '99 7.4L "L29".
I wouldn't mess with the 8.1L due to scarcity of parts, etc.

I'm still anxious to try a stroked 454 (489) with a hairdryer on E-85...

Still curious as to why we see so many LS engines with spun bearings...maybe poor quality bearings used by GM?
I absolutely love the LS architecture, sure would like to see 'em build one on a 4.840" bore center like a big block so we could see some monsters - a 555 with 15* symmetrical port heads would make some unbelievable hp and tq.

10-02-2013, 06:58 AM	#51
BigBlocksRule Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 2,047	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? ^ It made 117 more hp with aftermarket rectangular port heads, intake and cam swap. Ain't hardly apples-to-apples. And 2 1/8" primary headers are too big for the rectangular combo, waaay too big for peanuts.

10-04-2013, 01:12 PM	#52
LynnJr Registered User Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: santa rosa,california Posts: 650	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? Yeah I linked the wrong story.I will try and find the right one. If your going from peanuts to large ovals the manifold is getting changed or there is no reason for the swap.Cam needs changing no matter what his plans are. In the old days we would pick up an engine at the wrecker and first order of business was to throw the peanut heads in the scrap pile. Today they are considered good.

10-05-2013, 06:49 AM	#54
BigBlocksRule Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 2,047	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? Waaay back in the day, nobody would dream of building a 454 without those big honkin' rectangular port heads. Ovals were for old lady cars and peanut ports were for tow rigs and industrial engines. Large ovals are generally still the best choice for hot street and street/strip engines. Peanut port heads can be made to work for the street, but with similar combos, the large oval 781/049 heads will out power peanut port heads and are still the better choice in all but a dedicated tow motor.

12-31-2013, 05:36 PM	#55
D.FENS Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Huntsville AL Posts: 284	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? IMO this guy figured it out. From the speedtalk forums, in a thread about tow rigs. "One of the local Super Stock racers, Mike Lynch, was one of the first, if not the first, to take a stock carbureted 454 truck, add a mild cam, a set of headers, and the intake and heads off of a 67 396/350. It was like a whole different animal, the truck would pull any trailer you put behind it back then, never ran hot, and got decent fuel mileage. Later, I built a 0.040" over forged flat top 454, same heads as Mike head, with 2.19 and 1.88 valves, some porting, a Weiand dual plane, 1-3/4" Hedman Camaro headers, and a Comp 268 cam. It made 450HP and 480 foot pounds of torque, it got 12 MPG with a 28' all steel goose neck trailer with 10,000 pounds of cabbage on it, there was maybe 2500 pounds of cabbage on the truck. It was an older truck, all steel, steel flat bed, steel wheels, 3.73 gears, and 3 speed automatic with no over drive. It went 200,000 miles before a guy ran him off the road and totaled the truck" More: "8:1 compression leads to glowing exhaust manifolds, with cracks, excessive coolant temps, with the attending coolant system damage, low power, and poor fuel mileage. As soon as I got mine up above 9:1, all those problems went away. I didn't have detonation, because I was no longer lugging the engine to death at high temperatures for extended periods of time. I wouldn't give a thin dime for a low compression gasoline engine in a tow vehicle, I've seen what compression will do, and it is great. You don't need a lot of timing, you don't need a lot of fuel, and you don't need to run those "RV cams" with such short valve timing that all you get is detonation and an engine that is sucking wind at 3000 RPM while you're stuck in second gear trying to pull a hill at 30 MPH with a line of traffic behind you cursing your very existence. Even GM finally wised up and quit building those sick 8:1 454 truck engines with 220cc intake ports and flat intake manifolds. Build one right and you can also say good bye to burned thrust bearings, blue and/or ballooned torque converters, and trails of white smoke from boiled transmission fluid." "If you'll add a little camshaft, you can run over 9:1 compression for more torque without the excessive cylinder pressure from the small RV cams, and when you have to pull at 3/4 throttle up a hill at 3500 to 4000 RPM, you'll have a lot more torque to do it with. The problem with those small cams and low compression is you can't make mid range power, so when you need to drop back to second gear to pull a hill, you stay stuck there, because you have torque dropping rapidly above 2500 RPM because it can't breathe through 205 degrees duration @ 0.050 tappet lift, and then the low compression becomes no compression at 3500 to 4000 RPM, your EGT goes through the roof, because your combustion temperature is out of sight, and then you're pinging the rings out of it. You can't put any timing in it at all to make up for lacking compression, because you're already detonating it to death. Then you'll be wondering why you're stuck with "all big block Chevy engines use a little oil" because you've beaten the rings, ring lands, and valve guides to death. It's a 454, or bigger, it's not a 350, trying to make it breath through 205 degrees @ 0.050 is like feeding it through a straw. With a 205 @ 0.050" flat tappet and 8:1 compression, especially on 110 with 6 degrees advance, torque is over with at 3000 RPM, and there simply is no HP. So when you drop back to the next gear, and turn 3500 RPM to pull that hill, it just lugs and surges. I've tried it your way, and tried it mine. My way I top the same hill going 65MPH instead of 45MPH, my headers aren't warped, my coolant temperature is 190 instead of 210, and everything under the hood is happy." http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28801

12-31-2013, 05:43 PM	#56
D.FENS Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Huntsville AL Posts: 284	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? This build seems to be related - TBI 454 build in a Sub. Buddy bumped up the compression, slid in a pretty snotty sounding Comp Cams retrofit roller made for TBI 454SS trucks and did the Moates ECU tune. http://www.performancetrucks.net/for...burban-515920/ The build thread kinda stops short with him talking about some ping issues under load. I've been in communication with him, apparently the engine builder installed the cam either 4 degrees or 4 teeth retarded (not sure which). Got that resolved and now it's a hoss. Only drawback is it needs 93 octane with the hotter of two ignition maps. Says it's reasonably happy on 87 otherwise. Gotta wonder how that cam would work with a fairly conservative oval port head, or even aluminum Edelbrocks. Since it's patterned with a peanut port in mind it might not work at all. Last edited by D.FENS; 12-31-2013 at 05:54 PM.

12-31-2013, 07:05 PM	#57
LynnJr Registered User Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: santa rosa,california Posts: 650	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? Here is a link to a guy making 800 HP with Oval Port cast iron heads.We use to toss them into the scrap pile for weight. http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/t...7037040826/p/4 Lynn

12-31-2013, 10:36 PM	#59
texassquarebodies Truck Nut Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Wills Point, Texas Posts: 407	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? I had a 1989 CC with a 454 tbi. I installed Msd wires, coil, distributor, and 3" single exhaust and did a really good tune on it. Cut the ridges off around the top of the tbi and smoothed them over. It would smoke the tires from a stand still ! I would look down at the speedo and be doin 80 mph and not even now it. All this while pullin a 20' steel trailer and a 3/4, 4x4 on top. I got 12 mpg regularly, and with a trailer maybe a lil less Attached Images __________________ Tony Kee Texas Square Bodies Last edited by texassquarebodies; 12-31-2013 at 10:42 PM.

01-01-2014, 02:35 AM	#61
texassquarebodies Truck Nut Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Wills Point, Texas Posts: 407	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? That truck had ALL the smog stuff on the motor. Even had the belt on the smog pump. I did gut the converter though when I had the exhaust done. Reworking the tbi airflow is your best bet for power without getting into the motor. __________________ Tony Kee Texas Square Bodies

01-01-2014, 10:12 AM	#62
57NAPCO F’B’D guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Texas/Maine Posts: 2,234	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? I had this big block guru build me a big block for my 76 dually a couple of years ago, best thing I ever did. Dynoed at 455hp with 528 ft lbs of torque. I have no affiliation with him, just a satisfied customer. http://www.vortecproperformance.com/...binations.html

01-01-2014, 11:13 AM	#63
BigBlocksRule Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 2,047	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? ^ Mark Jones (VortecPro) builds some amazing engines using factory cast iron heads. I have no doubt he could build anything to fit any application. He'd be one of the first I'd consult with when looking for a powerful engine.

01-01-2014, 11:46 AM	#64
eldogg Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Mooresville NC/Gainesville GA Posts: 499	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? I don't have any clue what kind of HP/TQ mine makes, but it will pull anything. My combo is .030 flat tops, stock peanut ports with stainless valves & good Serdi valve job, roller tip rocker arms, smallest Summit cam 208/218 duration .475/.500 lift, Edelbrock TBI intake and TES headers, 3" single exhaust with a HUGE Magnaflow muffler, TBIChips.com chip LT1 fuel pump, TH400, 4:10 gears. Gets 10-12mpg around town and 8-10mpg hwy. __________________ Eric Evans Queen City Shop Truck http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...34#post6139834 66 GMC http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=543110

01-01-2014, 12:37 PM	#65
D.FENS Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Huntsville AL Posts: 284	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? I found the links / info above researching 454 TBI performance build on Google. There's some good info on 454ss.com, if you can pick it out of all the arguing. Signal to noise ratio is kinda low there. It seems that raising the compression about a point or a point and half, with increasing airflow (either through a big roller cam, or with a milder cam and some better heads) is the way to make it happen. I'm not so sure picking up 50 - 100 CFM from a ported TB is gonna make THAT much difference (until you get the intake / exhaust opened up anyway), but it can't hurt, and it's cheap so what the hell. Probably just being clean with fresh injectors would make up most of the difference. Dumping the OE manifolds (intake and exhaust) would be a given, as well as turning the fuel pressure up a little. Or a lot. A decent tune through using Moates or Dynamic EFI seems to be a must. The factory ECU processor is bog slow and doesn't allow for much in the way of fuel / ignition mapping. Some Megasquirt fans too, but mostly on the 4X4 sites.

01-02-2014, 10:06 AM	#66
D.FENS Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Huntsville AL Posts: 284	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? Was going to add this in an edit, but on here the edit option disappears after a little while. Interesting. Only V Bulletin site I've seen do that. Anyway. Comparatively speaking: Hot Rod mag did a 6.0 LQ9 LS motor buildup a while back. They were able to break 400hp and 450ft/lbs. with just headers and an ECU flash. Keep in mind this is a 9, with 10:1 compression, not the 9.5:1 LQ4. Most of the LS swaps I've seen dollar figures for are averaging mid 4's to about 6K high, with a few higher and lower. I'm guessing a 6.0 with a 4L80E would run to the high end of that so let's say $6,000 in the truck and running. On the other end, most of the "low buck" BBC builds I've researched average $2500 to just under 4, for the long block. Parts aren't that bad but machine shop work is out of sight these days. Using the info I posted about combined with what I picked out from 454ss.com I'm guessing 375 - 400hp with over 500ft/lbs. Crunching numbers hardcore over Xmas holidays shows that, with machine work I'm looking roughly 5K low to 6 high, that's the motor in the truck and running, some performance goodies, freshened up TH400, new radiator, rebuilt TB, tune for the ECU, and fixing all the little stuff that's broken or worn out. Now I know somebody said the other day they could "rebuild" a BBC for under $800 but I have to wonder what kind of parts they using and who's doing the machine work in that build.

01-02-2014, 10:29 PM	#68
meatwagon83 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Preble county ohio Posts: 1,914	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? a cam intake and headers will get a 454 to 400 horse as far as heads go 400 horse can be done with stock peanut ports __________________ "DON'T TOUCH THE TRIM!!"-Early Kyler

01-03-2014, 08:14 PM	#69
nekkidhillbilly Account Suspended Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: hazard, ky Posts: 1,674	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? and then your making the same power as a 6.2 or some of the 6.0s



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01-03-2014, 10:39 PM	#70
meatwagon83 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Preble county ohio Posts: 1,914	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? yes, for a quarter of the money and they make more torque __________________ "DON'T TOUCH THE TRIM!!"-Early Kyler

01-04-2014, 07:22 AM	#72
BigBlocksRule Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 2,047	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? D.FENS, why don't you research an apples-to-apples comparison? That would require a Gen 6 454 (port injection, hydraulic roller cam, just like an LS). I've bought 4 in the past year, didn't pay $1000 for any of 'em WITH the 4L80E. They don't wear any more than an LS, crack the heads and there's still hone marks in the bores, so there's no rebuilding to be done. $600 gets a complete wiring harness, spend another $100 and it's repinned to run the 411 PCM that the LS engines use. Tune it like an LS and it will run off and leave it. The LS won't be within 50 - 75lbs of torque, more like twice that much. I have nothing against LS engines - actually have a 6.0L iron block with LS3 heads that I'll stroke to make a 402 for my turbo race-only Firebird. Also have everything I need to build an LS7 as well. They're incredible engines, GM really did their homework when they designed them. But when it comes to towing grunt, they ain't got what it takes. GM decided to go with diesel engines for that...nobody I know does any amount of heavy towing with any LS engine, they'll spin bearings so fast it'll make your head spin.

01-04-2014, 10:37 AM	#75
BigBlocksRule Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 2,047	Re: Best way to get to ~400hp, 454 tbi. Anyone build one? I'm referring to a '96 - '99 7.4L "L29". I wouldn't mess with the 8.1L due to scarcity of parts, etc. I'm still anxious to try a stroked 454 (489) with a hairdryer on E-85... Still curious as to why we see so many LS engines with spun bearings...maybe poor quality bearings used by GM? I absolutely love the LS architecture, sure would like to see 'em build one on a 4.840" bore center like a big block so we could see some monsters - a 555 with 15* symmetrical port heads would make some unbelievable hp and tq.

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