47-59 Help Please - 4x4 S10 swap questions

[JayB22]

Just a quick update. I got a motor for the truck, as I was tearing into it to replace the seals, I’ve now decided to do a full rebuild on it. It’s a 97 vortec 350. It had 280,000km on it so I figured I was best to pull it apart and do everything. This will take me some time to do, but once it’s done I should be ready to install it and make sure the motor mounts work and figure out the steering. I’ve got most of the parts here or coming. I’m hoping in a week or so I’ll be able to mount the motor.
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[dsraven]

that era of vortec had some issues with the engine block cracking fore to aft above the lifters. if you have never done an engine before take a wood block and drill in some holes to put the lifters in so they go back in the same hole when you assemble. check them for wear where they rub against the cam and also check the cam for wear. take some brake cleaner and clean the area, wipe it off and blow it dry. then take a propane torch and heat up the areaa little. if there is a crack it will likely show up as a spot that weeps so it doesn't dry like the area around it. if it dries up like it should, but you are worried about it then there are crack check aerosols available or you could have the block and parts hot tanked/cleaned/checked

[dsraven]

are you doing a complete rebuild? checking the crank journals, cylinder bores, piston skirts, resizing the rods, replacing cam and lifters, removing the frost plugs oil gallery plugs and cam bearings before hot tanking (or cleaning at home with oven cleaner or something) and rebuilding the heads? or will you be refreshing with a set of rings, bearings and a general clean up?
in general, keep things that wear as a set together, cam and lifters, pistons and bores, rocker arms and their trunion ball, valves and their spot they came from etc. tghe old book "how to hotrod small block chevies" covers a lot of that stuff but was put together before the vortec series was put out. a lot of that is still relevant. it's a good idea to dissassemble and check every wear part before you start putting things back together. this could save you time and money later. have you ridge reamed the block, deglazed the cylinders?
if unsure about something just ask, theres lots of help available on here.

[JayB22]

My plan is to just clean it up and give it a refresh. I’m doing all the gaskets, seals, bearings and rings. As well as timing chain and gears. I am picking up a ball hone and de glazing the cylinder walls as well. I am still limited with the transmission etc that I have so I just want to put in a reliable motor. Not trying to get too carried away with it. I just want something that runs good and doesn’t leak oil. I’ve been debating on swapping the cam etc out but I don’t think I want to do that yet. I have enough hurdles in front of me that I just want to get the motor cleaned up and installed and see what other roadblocks I run into. During removal everything seemed in good shape. I could still see some of the etching on the cylinder walls, bearings still looked good. No wear marks on anything. So hopefully I don’t run into hidden issues.

I’ve really been taking my time and trying to lay it all out in the order it came out and make sure it’s all marked on where it goes. I have it laid out on the bench and everything’s been paired up with how it came off. I’ve never done a rebuild to this extent and haven’t done anything like this for almost 20 years. So it will be a learning experience. I do have some good guys to lean on for advice. But I kind of want to do this on my own to see how it goes. I just won’t force anything if I’m not sure.

[burger]

Hello Jay,

I don't think I've ever seen someone keep the 4WD on one of these swaps! Did you end up notching the crossmember in front of the torsion bar mounts? How much did you slide everything back? Any other hurdles with the 4WD?


Thanks,
Ed

[JayB22]

Originally Posted by burger

Hello Jay,

I don't think I've ever seen someone keep the 4WD on one of these swaps! Did you end up notching the crossmember in front of the torsion bar mounts? How much did you slide everything back? Any other hurdles with the 4WD?


Thanks,
Ed

Hey Ed,

I'm still a little bit away from jumping through all the hurdles. My motor rebuild is taking a little longer then originally expected, I'm diving a little farther into it then originally planned. It should be well worth it by the end of it all.

Once I get the motor back together I'll be trouble shoot the issues with trying to keep the 4wd. I'm not set on keeping it yet, but my current plan is to move and adjust everything so that I can keep it, I just might wait a bit to do the front driveshaft etc. I'll see what the cost is for extending it and see how far out of budget I've gone on the build by then. I'm planning to build the motor close to stock with a slight cam upgrade with hopes that I can keep the T5 trans and re use it.

I just got notice that Amazon allegedly delivered my headers to work on Friday, but there is no package here after the weekend. So I'm back looking for headers. Finding headers for the 4wd swap isn't as easy as the standard 2wd headers. I might just order the 2wd headers and see if they will fit. I also have some sorting out to do with the engine mounts. Flipping them over from Right to Left side etc didn't work on my Vortec 350 block. It has the casting area for the fuel pump and this interferes with the motor mounts. In the end this might work better as I'll just mount the bushing part to the motor and drill new holes for the bracket on the frame and mount it where it seems to fit best. I just need to get my block back from being cleaned and getting the new cam bearings installed so I can proceed with putting it all back together. I'm curious to see if with the 4wd if I'll have to run the steering shaft through the headers or if I can just use standard headers, which could also open up the option for long tube headers.

We had some family stuff to deal with and have my wife and daughters birthdays coming up so things have drastically slowed down with my progress. But hopefully this will pick up soon again.

So far with the 4wd setup the trans and transfer case shifters will work well with the hole in the floor. I'll just have to adjust the bend in the shifter arm for the transmission as it will be too far back once everything is moved back to where it needs to be. I have my cab mounts all ready to go on, but I don't want to finalize them until the drivetrain is set just incase there is some slight movements to the cab that could help me out, but other then cutting a few more inches around the trans hole in the firewall, it all looks like it will fit good.

[burger]

Hello Jay,

I could see header selection and engine mounts being difficult! In addition to the usual challenges, you've got torsion bars, a transfer case, and an added driveshaft.

A while ago I came across a place called Astro Performance that sells upgraded T-5 parts.

Good luck and please keep posting pictures! Curious minds want to know!


Ed

[dsraven]

gm made a version called chevy syclone or gmc typhoon which was a v6 4x4 high perf version. I wonder if looking at the performance parts, like headers etc, for these would show some results for a v8 version or at least some pics of how the headers etc are routed. hedman also made headers, oil pan and engine mounts for a swap in a box made for the s10 4x4 v8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xuxyqvuo6UE
its an old youtube from 2010 and the kit is probably not available anymore but you could contact them I guess. the video shows what the parts look like anyway. this is what they have on their swap page
https://www.hedman.com/s10-v8-kits
here is a quick read on an old thread about what to do when installing a sbc into a s10 4x4
https://jagsthatrun.com/pages/introduction

[JayB22]

Turns out my headers were delivered to the bay next door to my office. So I have them. They are the standard shorty v8 swap headers. Last minute I decided to upgrade my valve springs so I’m hoping those arrive sometime this week. I’ve got most of the motor back together, just waiting on the valves so I can install the heads then do a test fit.

Last night I mounted the front fenders on again and I’m having some clearance issues with the grill and the ends of the Frame rails. I need some more time to head back out but I might experiment with moving the body forward maybe 1/2”-1”. Just to see how the wheels work in the wheel wells and to see if this gives me the clearance I need at the front. I’m hoping if this works and looks good, that it saves me some distance that I need to move the motor back.

[JayB22]

While I’m still waiting for some motor parts to come in I decided to cut my box down to mock it up. I ended up cutting 13.5” off of the box. I really tried to keep it 8’ inside but it just didn’t look right. I’m not sure if all boxes have as many cross bars as mine has coming from a 1 ton truck. But I’ll end up having to drop the box down 2-2.5” so they line up with the running boards. I’m not mounting anything to the frame until the motor is all in and ready to go but I’m happy with how it’s sitting for now.

[dsraven]

Looking good.
Good plan to wait for engine parts to come in and get that in place before mounting body stuff. Sometimes the wheels look ok in the openings until you lower the body down over the frame, then they can start to look to close to one end or the other.
Looks like the weather is cooperating too, weird.

[JayB22]

Originally Posted by dsraven

Looking good.
Good plan to wait for engine parts to come in and get that in place before mounting body stuff. Sometimes the wheels look ok in the openings until you lower the body down over the frame, then they can start to look to close to one end or the other.
Looks like the weather is cooperating too, weird.

Yeah I’m a little worried too that it might change as I drop the box down. With the teardrop style hole in the back fenders it was tough to find a alignment that worked best with the rear wheels as you can’t really just center them in the opening. I took some advice from Joedoh and used the rivets in the fender as a center mark. It seemed to work good. And yes for the end of May, we’ve been lucky with the weather. Although it wouldn’t bother me if we got some moisture soon.

[Tempest67]

keep in mind, if you want to maintain maximum depth of the box, you can lower the fenders only to line up to the running boards. There may be some additional sheet metal to add to the bottom edge, but this may be easier that lowering the entire box.

[JayB22]

That’s a good thought too. Thanks for the idea.

I think I’m going to start by taking the front and back braces and move them up so the bottom bolt holes go through the top bolt holes. This moves the floor up about 2”. I can test fit it without drilling any additional holes. I’m going to keep the middle braces out til I get a final measurement and fitment for the box. I have a bunch of 1 1/2” square tubing laying around that I was planning to use to build some braces for it. I’ll have to change the location of some of the braces to go in front and behind the stock gas tank just to give some additional support.

I’m not too worried about full functionality out of the box. I probably won’t put much more then a dirt bike and some riding gear in the back.

[JayB22]

I had debated on painting the grill so I took a wire brush to it last night to see how much of it would just flake off. To my surprise it ended up buffing out a bunch of the cloudy finish and rust off of the surface. It actually shined it up fairly well. I think I’ll be leaving it like this.

[joedoh]

wow looks great! both the side view and the grille

[JayB22]

This is the best before picture I have

[burger]

Grill cleaned up nicely!

[JayB22]

Thanks Burger

I’ve still got some finishing touches to do to the motor but I decided to put the valve covers and intake on quickly to see how it’s going to look. I’m getting excited to get the motor rebuild completed.

[dsraven]

grille turned out great. depending on the look you are after, some of those dings could be worked out. I would hit it with some metal polish or protector just to keep the rust at bay.

[JayB22]

Originally Posted by dsraven

grille turned out great. depending on the look you are after, some of those dings could be worked out. I would hit it with some metal polish or protector just to keep the rust at bay.

That's a good call on the metal polish. I'll make sure I get some on there. I tried to hammer some of the dents out but didn't have much luck. I also didn't get too carried away as I wasn't sure if I was going to keep the grill or not. Now that it looks pretty good I'll definitely spend some more time trying to hammer some of the dents out.

[dsraven]

kms tools has a little book called the key to metal bumping. it has some techniques that may help if you're not bodywork savvie. sometimes a hardwood block sanded to shape can be used for the hammer (punch actually) for places where you can't get a hammer into.
engine looks great in the pics.

[JayB22]

I took some hardwood that I had and made a black to use as a bunch to try and hammer it out from the back side. I had a hard time getting it to rest on a block where I needed it to hammer down on the dent. I’ll definitely give it another try before putting the front clip on for good.

Today I finished putting the motor together. I quickly mocked up the motor to see where the mounts need to go. I will definitely have to remove the cross member from behind the transfer case to make it all fit. Still lots to sort out.

[dsraven]

I sure hope you got that thing inside before it started the 3 day downpour.
is the oil pan gonna fit?
cross members were made to move, lol.

[JayB22]

Oil pan fits good without issue.
As I finally got the last motor mount bolt out the rain started. Had to panic to get the motor back on a stand and wheel it all back in.

I’ll get some better pictures of the mount setup for anyone looking to do the same thing. I put the bushing side on the motor and the mount side on the frame. I used the two bottom bolt holes from the existing mounts as the two bottom bolt holes on the s10 v8 swap mounts. I’ll have to drill a lower hole for the top bolt hole. I was going to turn the mounts around and bolt them to the motor but the casting for the fuel pump was in the way. This seems to move the motor back a good amount. I didn’t get a change to test fit the cab. I’ll work on that this week.