Make it handle

[robnolimit]

Last night we track tested again with the flexi-bar panhard rod. changes are made slowly, one at a time to see any change, and again, most of the changes are driver error. First, we started with the same set up we left off with. The big thing I notice is that in the tight banked 220* turn, the rear is really hooked up, so I'm going a bit faster than normal, then, the flexi-bar hits it's limit (I guess), and the tire slips, the chassis unloads, and the truck 'bucks' to the side a bit, and this repeats through the corner. First change was to tighten up the bushings in the flexi-bar. - better. Next, run 2 psi higher in the left side tires (32ft, 22 rr) - running clockwise. - better. Tighten the bar more - better, Then we added more rebound compression in the rear shocks, - worse. Last, rebound back to the previous setting, added 5 clicks of low speed compression to the rear, - better. On the track, this is al done by feel. We don't get times until we leave the pit area and go the the clubhouse. We got 9 timed laps (3 lost to timing equip error) Our fast lap was 48.45 - pretty fast. average was 49.06 - .58 faster than last week. and the high/low was 1.19 - pretty good for all the changes. My thoughts on the flexi-bar idea? well, the jury's still out. It is helping, but the truck is more challenging to drive. I may need to tighten it a bit more, or try some more shock tuning. But, we are going faster, so, we'll see what's capable from this set-up. More to come, I'm sure.

[Jonboy]

Rob, any more ideas on leaf spring tech? Where would the rear leaves need to be cut? I would like to keep a little payload capacity- it is a truck- or would I be money ahead to do a trailing arm rear setup? I do not want to go to air.

[leftcoast66]

That sounds like some great progress. Thanks again for all of the help as well as posting up your methods of testing. Its great to know while I build my truck, I'm sure there will be a lot of testing.

[CSGAS]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Last night we track tested again with the flexi-bar panhard rod. changes are made slowly, one at a time to see any change, and again, most of the changes are driver error. First, we started with the same set up we left off with. The big thing I notice is that in the tight banked 220* turn, the rear is really hooked up, so I'm going a bit faster than normal, then, the flexi-bar hits it's limit (I guess), and the tire slips, the chassis unloads, and the truck 'bucks' to the side a bit, and this repeats through the corner. First change was to tighten up the bushings in the flexi-bar. - better. Next, run 2 psi higher in the left side tires (32ft, 22 rr) - running clockwise. - better. Tighten the bar more - better, Then we added more rebound compression in the rear shocks, - worse. Last, rebound back to the previous setting, added 5 clicks of low speed compression to the rear, - better. On the track, this is al done by feel. We don't get times until we leave the pit area and go the the clubhouse. We got 9 timed laps (3 lost to timing equip error) Our fast lap was 48.45 - pretty fast. average was 49.06 - .58 faster than last week. and the high/low was 1.19 - pretty good for all the changes. My thoughts on the flexi-bar idea? well, the jury's still out. It is helping, but the truck is more challenging to drive. I may need to tighten it a bit more, or try some more shock tuning. But, we are going faster, so, we'll see what's capable from this set-up. More to come, I'm sure.

Do you have any way of changing the angle of the flexi-bar while keeping the centers? (or even changing the centers if they aren't in sync with the front ones)

I know the NASCAR guys swapped the mount points long ago left-to-right but that mainly showed an advantage on left-hand oval tracks. Your right-hand sweeper should respond more to a bar angle that plants the tire that's slipping better...any idea on the tire temps across the rears?

My next "seat-of-the-pants" adjustment would want to be raising the left frame anchor point and lower the right axle mount an appropriate amount so the roll center of the flexi-bar remains the same and see the results. This may not jibe with simulations, wish I had Mitchell software to double check my pants with.

I wish I also had more experience to talk from--mainly a hobbyist and learned a lot from other people as well as attending a Mech. Engineering program now. Still I tend to pick a lot of the best people to learn from--you are on that list, now, Rob!

[RANDOMIZM]

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...3277577&type=1

Some cool pics of the No Limit trucks. (and other vehicles)

Hey Rob, that El Camino looks pretty sick. You know anything about it?

[NPilot1975]

Rob,

I will take you up on the offer, that should set me up perfect. I should be able to purchase the above in a couple weeks.

I had planned on 20" rims on the front and 22" rims on the rear, now looking at 18's again. LOL

Thanx again,
Jamison

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by RANDOMIZM

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...3277577&type=1

Some cool pics of the No Limit trucks. (and other vehicles)

Hey Rob, that El Camino looks pretty sick. You know anything about it?

The 'Elco is James Crosby of Creative Suspension. His is a long time friend of mine, from Ontatio, ca. He is currently working with Ride Tech doing R&D and some car building. Their new 'True=Turn' steering update is his baby. - He is also the designer of the Shockwave, as well as some of the air ride bikes seen on TV. If you ever get a chance to meet him, ask him 'what the fastest Hot Wheels car is'? (Trash truck or Dump truck is the answer - long story) lol.

[stealthy '69]

Glad to see the times slowly getting lower and lower. It just shows all your hard work paying off. Do you happen to have any pics of the exhaust routing through the crossmembers and frame?

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by stealthy '69

Glad to see the times slowly getting lower and lower. It just shows all your hard work paying off. Do you happen to have any pics of the exhaust routing through the crossmembers and frame?

I'll see what I can do.

[NPilot1975]

Rob, you definitely stand out in that crowd with 2 show worthy trucks next to all the beater looking imports.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ItsRandy]

Hey Rob, any chance the rear sway bar for 67 - 72 Chevy truck is available yet? I sure would like one like the one you have on your shop truck.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by ItsRandy

Hey Rob, any chance the rear sway bar for 67 - 72 Chevy truck is available yet? I sure would like one like the one you have on your shop truck.

They are finally in production. We have about a 2 week wait for the first batch to be heat treated, and powder coated. I'll post up picts and specs next week. Thanks for the interest.

[chase1873]

Originally Posted by spike38

Rob

I lowered the truck 3" F / 4" R drop. (CPP springs and shocks)
So to regain most of the lost trailing arm pitch,
I flipped the brackets over. This reclaimed 3 1/4" of the 4" lost.

I removed the 12 hulk rivets, And replaced them with 16
bolts, Flat washers, Lock washer, And connicle nuts.(pics attached)

I also ordered a 24" adjustable track bar, And considering CPP's HD swaybay
kit ( 1 1/4" front, 1 1/8" back sway bars)

Now I'm not building a racer, It will be my DD. It's a 68 stepside sbc,
HD 350 turbo, PB and PS. Converted the front to a 72 disc brake system,
I will convert the back to SS Impala discs.(as soon as the axle arrive)
And moving the tank to the rear frame.

Are there any other mods you would recommend for basic handling.

Spike

This morning I was looking at the trailing arms on my c10 thinking it would be great if it was possible to flip those brackets over. First thing I did was sign on and make my way to this thread... Guess this answers my question.

keep sharing the knowledge, you guys are awesome

[robnolimit]

Glad to hear this is helping. Keep Building, It gets a lot more fun when you can drive 'em.

[jimmydean]

So I am not a NASCAR guy, but I have read and heard that NASCAR race cars run a C10 style trailing arm setup. Having never seen on before in person, I couldn't confirm nor deny this myself.

On Friday, a company in my building sponsors a NASCAR style race team and they set up in the parking lot. I went over and crawled under it to see what's what.

I was a little shocked to see how similar it was to the factory truck trailing arm.


The adjustable trailing arm height and corresponding panhard bar were very cool.

I'm sure this isn't new to most in this thread, but I found it interesting.

[robnolimit]

Thats pretty cool. I like the panhard mount. Notice it's long, low, and behind the rear axle? Hmmm, kind of like our FatBar set-up! lol, no, I don't think the Oval Boys copied us, we just know what works. Cool to see them using O E style arms.

[FRENCHBLUE72]

Hey rob is there a kit out yet that has the rack and pinion and stand offs avalable yet? Or is it possible to get just the standoff by them selfs? I looked on your website and either missed them or they are not listed?

[robnolimit]

The rack kits are ready to go, we're waiting on some cutom rubber isolators to show up. We should have them this week.

[ItsRandy]

Hey Rob, any chance the rear sway bar for 67 - 72 Chevy truck is available yet? I sure would like one like the one you have on your shop truck. I was able to see the bar on your truck...it looks to fit real well. I was able to go for a ride in your truck and the bar seems to work real well.

[gmtec93c1500]

I DID IT 3 DAYS 30 PAGES AND ALOT LESS HAIR!!!! what a wonderful pile of information ...now to read it all again so i can understand it... i have a 93 c1500 i was gonna lower ... but after reading this i think im going to go a completely route... new plan.. 2" drop spindles, 2" fornt drop springs ... for the rear after reading this i think converting to a trailing arm setup in the rear... would be worth while? what would you recommend for rear springs/bags maybe/coil-overs? any advise would be greatly appreciated
thanks for all the great info George

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by ItsRandy

Hey Rob, any chance the rear sway bar for 67 - 72 Chevy truck is available yet? I sure would like one like the one you have on your shop truck. I was able to see the bar on your truck...it looks to fit real well. I was able to go for a ride in your truck and the bar seems to work real well.

Looks like 3 weeks. We made one more change, seems wood beds are just a bit different than metal beds. - found out the hard way. But, one small change to the bar shape fixes it for everbody. Remember, good things come to those who wait. thanks.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by gmtec93c1500

I DID IT 3 DAYS 30 PAGES AND ALOT LESS HAIR!!!! what a wonderful pile of information ...now to read it all again so i can understand it... i have a 93 c1500 i was gonna lower ... but after reading this i think im going to go a completely route... new plan.. 2" drop spindles, 2" fornt drop springs ... for the rear after reading this i think converting to a trailing arm setup in the rear... would be worth while? what would you recommend for rear springs/bags maybe/coil-overs? any advise would be greatly appreciated
thanks for all the great info George

It is a bunch. to match a 4" front, you need about a 6" rear drop.
A) flip kit, C notch, helwig bar, and bilstien shocks. simple and effective.
B) Ride Tech rear 4 bar kit, C notch, your choice, bags or shocks.
+ no axle wrap, - no sway bar provision.
C) Trailing arm swap, this will require reshaping the rear rails to get it right. Advanced fab. Honestly, it may not be worth it.
D), take a look at the rear suspension on a '82 - '92 camaro. 2 link + torque arm. factory had coils, easy to bag. The rears have factory disks. Easy to fab in to that chassis, good ride and handling, use the factory camaro sway bar.

[jimmydean]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

D), take a look at the rear suspension on a '82 - '92 camaro. 2 link + torque arm. factory had coils, easy to bag. The rears have factory disks. Easy to fab in to that chassis, good ride and handling, use the factory camaro sway bar.

I would never thought about that as an option, but love it. Great info as always Rob.

[gmtec93c1500]

yeah my buddy has a 92 camaro .. they got like a 3 link long arm goes to the trans 2 short lowers out by the wheels... could i use the front leaf mounts for my lower links? then the torque arm.. that goes to the trans on the camaro.. i got a LWB truck... thats a long torque arm .. is there a length ratio i should be after... ??? then ill need somethin to center my rear axle ... have to build a panhard bar or a watts link.. advantage disadvantage of a watts link .. they look kinda complex but i get the concept keeps the rear perfectly centerd
i would keep my rear axle i think goin to a 7.5 ring grear would be goin the wrong direction... pics comin ... now you got me thinkin


thanks for the info rob ur the man

[gmtec93c1500]

soo took some quick measurements ... took some quick pics... did some quick math.. from my trans cross-member to my rear axle housing its aprox. 84" and its aprox. 33" from axle center to front spring center thats aprox. 2.54/1 ratio on links... is there a number im aiming for here? ... second there are no mount holes on axle housing and its cast so i cant weld to it... BUT it has 3 cast points that i could bolt to and a flat rib that goes almost inline with the pinion ... thinking i could use these to fab up a mount to?? check out pic one ... also the fab of the torque arm itself.. this would fall into sprung weight right? so making it of aluminium would be better right? ... and more... i would remove the factory shocks and relocate outside the frame... thinking of going coil overs here ... and im on a budget... a little budget ..a coffee budget really ... ... what is my best bang the for buck... now this is still gonna be a truck that is daily driven ... i dont really haul much and theres no form of racing here of any sort (not the legal kind anyway lol) what are my options im not broke really just cheap thanks guys for all the advise im just a young guy tryin to lean the ropes and i can use all the help i can get ...


George