Make it handle

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by taank

i recently orderd a rear bag kit from avs. its going to be a stock to 4 inch drop at various times. do i need to replace the panhard bar or do a shock relocate?

If you're adjusting the ride height, I would recommend getting an aftermarket rear Panhard bar. The short OE bars & their mounting location would allow for more side to side travel vs. an aftermarket (longer) Panhard bar would (the longer the bar, the less side shift when the suspension cycles up/down).

On the shocks, I would determine your preferred ride height & mearure for shock travel. It's possible the 4" drop will be @ the max for shock compression but if it's only @ that height for a limited period of time, it might not be worth messing with. Once you know your typical ride height, it should be fairly easy to crunch the numbers & see if relocating the mounting points would benefit your set-up.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by taank

i recently orderd a rear bag kit from avs. its going to be a stock to 4 inch drop at various times. do i need to replace the panhard bar or do a shock relocate?

You'll need both. Check out our new adjustable long panhard rod and rear relocated shock mount kits. use the 'B' length shock.

[taank]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

You'll need both. Check out our new adjustable long panhard rod and rear relocated shock mount kits. use the 'B' length shock.

part numbers? your site is under construction

[robnolimit]

Oops, I'll have Michelle post uo friday. We're on our way to Pleasanton for the goodguys show. If your close, come on out, this show is open to all years, american made.

[robnolimit]

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU !!!!!! To all veterans and active duty, thank you for protecting our freedom. Have a great veterans day. You deserve it.

[snm95ls]

I am very impressed with the info contained in this thread.

Robnolimit, congrats to you guys for all of your success at the various races. It is truly impressive to see trucks being tossed around on an autox course and not only doing well, but winning events.

Keep up the great work guys.

[robnolimit]

Thanks, chalk up another one. We won the truck class this weekend in Pleasonton at the GoodGuys show. We ran 28.961, Mike Maier ran 27.227 to win the vendor class. Hobauch ran 26.885 in the Wilwood camaro, winning the street machine class and fast lap overall. Had a great weekend up here.
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[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Thanks, chalk up another one. We won the truck class this weekend in Pleasonton at the GoodGuys show. We ran 28.961, Mike Maier ran 27.227 to win the vendor class. Hobauch ran 26.885 in the Wilwood camaro, winning the street machine class and fast lap overall. Had a great weekend up here.

Hobauch's Camaro is killer.... I was disappointed he didn't do better @ OUSCI.

[djw32]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Hobauch's Camaro is killer.... I was disappointed he didn't do better @ OUSCI.

Brian did come in 3rd...not that bad of a showing.
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[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by djw32

Brian did come in 3rd...not that bad of a showing.

Definitely agree there, not bad @ all. I just felt that car had the makings of being THE winner.

[jimmydean]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Thanks, chalk up another one. We won the truck class this weekend in Pleasonton at the GoodGuys show. We ran 28.961, Mike Maier ran 27.227 to win the vendor class. Hobauch ran 26.885 in the Wilwood camaro, winning the street machine class and fast lap overall. Had a great weekend up here.
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Was that your run I overhear in the tour video from facebook? Man, the group of muscle makes for nice eye candy. Congrats on another win.

[67cheby]

i am cheering you on from here....wearing my NO LIMITS shirt as i type !! ROCK ON MAN

[Grimee]

Great job Rob ! we could not make it to Pleasonton the Tahoe is on the Dyno at Whipple for some much needed tuning . Congrats on the win!

[robnolimit]

Yesterday I got to drive a run in Mike Meair's yellow mustang. A full on race car. I timidly ran a 28.446. To say the least, the car is rocket fast and turns like crazy. Mike was turning 26.200. Then, I put Mike, a 25 yr Autocross driver, in the Bullit, and he ran a 28.643 on a check out pass!!!!! This tells me a lot about tuning what's in the drivers seat.
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[wickid demon]

This thread has gotten huge. Thank you Rob and everyone here for there Q&A. I have started my front suspension, got it set up in the computer but my next step is to actually weld my suicide mission suspension together. My question is when building the chassis. Should I build my main rails with Dom tubing are just do box tubing? All inner structure will be done in Dom tubing, just wanting to know the best route. Any input will be great. The box tubing will be easier to build off of. But the round I can bend my self so it can flow better, basically look pretty. The Tubing will be more involved to. Is there advantage going with DOM verses box? Thanks again

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by wickid demon

This thread has gotten huge. Thank you Rob and everyone here for there Q&A. I have started my front suspension, got it set up in the computer but my next step is to actually weld my suicide mission suspension together. My question is when building the chassis. Should I build my main rails with Dom tubing are just do box tubing? All inner structure will be done in Dom tubing, just wanting to know the best route. Any input will be great. The box tubing will be easier to build off of. But the round I can bend my self so it can flow better, basically look pretty. The Tubing will be more involved to. Is there advantage going with DOM verses box? Thanks again

Good questions. Most would use box tubing. Like 2x6, 2x5, or 2x4. Using all round is more work, and must be more carefully thought out to be a success. I built 10 chassis in '05-'07 on a double stacked, round tube platform. The most notable of these was under a copper and black 56 F-100 for Ford's 50th anniversary of the 56 ford. I used 1 3/4", .120 wall for most of the construction on these chassis. I have to say they drove really nice. Due the the build time, appx 160 hrs, they were expensive, and I promised to only build 10. So, I doubt I will build any more any time soon. They are however, a testament to your fab skills, and set you apart from the rest. If this is for an early truck, tahe advantage of ALL of the space under the body, make the chassis as big as you can.

[wickid demon]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Good questions. Most would use box tubing. Like 2x6, 2x5, or 2x4. Using all round is more work, and must be more carefully thought out to be a success. I built 10 chassis in '05-'07 on a double stacked, round tube platform. The most notable of these was under a copper and black 56 F-100 for Ford's 50th anniversary of the 56 ford. I used 1 3/4", .120 wall for most of the construction on these chassis. I have to say they drove really nice. Due the the build time, appx 160 hrs, they were expensive, and I promised to only build 10. So, I doubt I will build any more any time soon. They are however, a testament to your fab skills, and set you apart from the rest. If this is for an early truck, tahe advantage of ALL of the space under the body, make the chassis as big as you can.

My plans are to use 1 ¾ for the main rails, double stacked & plated in between the lower rail and upper rail, or is the plating not really needed? The lower rail will be used to pick up the lower control arm and upper rail will be used to pick up the upper control arm and of a course all need internal Skelton to give it rigidity. When you say “make the chassis as big as you can” do you mean the gaping between upper and lower rails, basically making it a 2X10 like one of your chassis or the width of the truck? I planned on making the gaping around 2.5 in which would give me a 2X6 rail and bending the rails out to the outer edge of the rockers. Rob thanks for the advice it helps out tremendously. Would you do IRS or just go with straight axle? I’m really trying to make my truck the best that I can.

[Greywolf200]

Hi Rob, back to the camber gain question. I was thinking that a full width 1" front crossmember section would bring the A arms closer together increasing the camber gain similar to the Shelby/Guldstand mods except that the lower arm would be raised rather the lowering the upper arm. To make this work, you'd need 1" lowering springs and combined with dropped spindles, you'd get 3.5" drop with improved geometry? Even though you're using 1" dropped springs, you'd still have normal suspension travel? The dropped springs re-establish the relationship of the LCA to the spring pocket. Would ball joint bind be a problem in normal operation (no frame laying or anything like that)?

While we're looking at this, do the tie rods need to be in a straight line from spindle to spindle to have proper steering geometry? That doesn't happen in the stock design and is one of the things you were trying to correct with the R&P set-up?

Inguiring minds want to know.....lol. I am going to figure out how to modify my C10 suspension before next spring and don't want to do it twice.

Thanks, the article in ST didn't give you near enough credit.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by Greywolf200

Hi Rob, back to the camber gain question. I was thinking that a full width 1" front crossmember section would bring the A arms closer together increasing the camber gain similar to the Shelby/Guldstand mods except that the lower arm would be raised rather the lowering the upper arm. To make this work, you'd need 1" lowering springs and combined with dropped spindles, you'd get 3.5" drop with improved geometry? Even though you're using 1" dropped springs, you'd still have normal suspension travel? The dropped springs re-establish the relationship of the LCA to the spring pocket. Would ball joint bind be a problem in normal operation (no frame laying or anything like that)?

While we're looking at this, do the tie rods need to be in a straight line from spindle to spindle to have proper steering geometry? That doesn't happen in the stock design and is one of the things you were trying to correct with the R&P set-up?

Inguiring minds want to know.....lol. I am going to figure out how to modify my C10 suspension before next spring and don't want to do it twice.

Thanks, the article in ST didn't give you near enough credit.

This is an interesting deal. my first thought is you may need a little more drop from the spring. Try to get the lwer ball joint even, or just slightly above the center of the lower A-arm pivit. One thing to remember is to keep the roll center in a reasonable range. I'd shoot for 3" to 4". Ball joint bind will not be a problem. I have been thinking about crossmember mods lately, so, here's a thought. Nock the upper A-arm mounts off the crossmember, and move them back 1", then re-attach. when you re-install the crossmember, align the holes through the side of the rails first. This will move the crossmember forward 1", and with it, the lower A-arm. The wheel will be centered, and the caster will be appx 7 deg. You can weld, or re-drill the holes through the bottom of the rail. As for steering, you'd have to raise, or bend, the pitman arm and idler arm up 1", OR, fab a center link with the inner tie rod mount holes up 1" (look at Ride Tech's new True Turn kit), OR, go with a rack set up that indexes off of the crossmember/lower arm mounts. (ours would work fine.) This has me thinking, i may plug in the numbers and see what the computer says.

[gringoloco]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

This is an interesting deal... ...This has me thinking, I may plug in the numbers and see what the computer says.

Please do! I've been contemplating something VERY similar- would like to see what, if any, benefits come from this.

[Spla'nin]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Try to get the lower ball joint even, or just slightly above the center of the lower A-arm pivit. One thing to remember is to keep the roll center in a reasonable range. I'd shoot for 3" to 4". Ball joint bind will not be a problem. I have been thinking about crossmember mods lately, so, here's a thought. Nock the upper A-arm mounts off the crossmember, and move them back 1", then re-attach. when you re-install the crossmember, align the holes through the side of the rails first. This will move the crossmember forward 1", and with it, the lower A-arm. The wheel will be centered, and the caster will be appx 7 deg. You can weld, or re-drill the holes through the bottom of the rail. As for steering, you'd have to raise, or bend, the pitman arm and idler arm up 1", OR, fab a center link with the inner tie rod mount holes up 1" (look at Ride Tech's new True Turn kit), OR, go with a rack set up that indexes off of the crossmember/lower arm mounts. (ours would work fine.) This has me thinking, i may plug in the numbers and see what the computer says.

For camber gain, you got me thinking and after examinating my 76, I was wondering if the stock upper A arms could just be swapped L/R R/L...on a stock spindle? Looks to move the top of the spindle back +1.75" or so...Not sure if that would induce ball joint bind or not ... I wonder what the design range of movement on ball joints is?...thinkin this mod may gain +5*...? Any thoughts...

And then again maybe it's just better to bite the bullit...and get a complete lightweight performance front clip... will you be offering anything like this in the future Rob...?

[NPilot1975]

Rob, Thinking about making my truck a Trazer or maybe just a topless roadster with a cage. What would you recommend for building the inner structure of the bed area? Was thinking of 1x1 or 1x2, but how thin can I go but keep good strength? I want it to be strong, but as light as I can make it. What did you use when you raised the floor on JT? Also, for overall rigidity, are there gains/losses to tying the frame and rockers together (bolted to allow it to be removed)
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[robnolimit]

The floor of the JT is all original parts, just raised 4", and it's heavy. You can use .065 wall, as long as you don't drop an engine block on it. Not sue tying the rockers in would help that much, but then again, any little bit helps. 1rst to 2nd in charlotte was .039 sec. If you want to get really trick, form all of your mounts and bracing with .040 aluminum.

[ferk_3131]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

If you want to get really trick, form all of your mounts and bracing with .040 aluminum.

Rob what mounts are you talking about I just happen to have a sheet of .040 in the shop
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[robnolimit]

If you form up nice 3-D mounts, you can use .040 for all sorts of light duty components. Bed, floor and inner tubbs and mounts, Dash, inner panels, guage pods. Cooling and electronics mounts. If you need to shock mount something, such as electronics, check out the rubber isolators used for Harley oil tanks.