D60 Front Brake Upgrade

[Last_Paladin]

Nice tech... I am amazed that someone asked for your files though. I've been looking at those calipers for years.

[mcmlxix]

I got the brackets back from the powder coaters today. I'll take pics tomorrow. One of the holes on the knuckle was helicoiled and needs to be redone. I also want to replace the nuts that hold the spindle to the knuckle... I also picked up some new kingpin cap gaskets... If everything goes smoothly, I hope to have it assembled this weekend... And I'll have a 4" steering block to sell...

[Last_Paladin]

Originally Posted by mcmlxix

OK. I assembled the hub, rotor and H2 wheel... and my extra long lug nuts are too short...They bottom out the stud on the inside of the lug nut... I cut the top off of two and that works... So I have two options...

1. Cut the tops off all the lug nuts
2. Cut down the tips of the wheel studs. (not even into the threads)

3. Put an H2 wheel on and measure that. Mine are almost a HALF inch thick at the flange.

[SADMAX]

Im building a D60 Axle almost from scratch as they dont produce what I am looking for. Like you, I don't like the brakes origionally used on the D60. So I like your thread and progress. My idea is similar to yours in that I was using the factory 2003 Chevy 2500HD brakes since they are already installed on my truck. Since reading this thread I liked the size difference of the Dodge rotor only for one reason. I installed a tone ring on my hubs similar to what Danatrac did. My Chevy rotors have more room than the D60 rotors but it was tight. The dodge Rotors will give plenty of room to mount the sensors. Anyway here is my thoughts/issues with the brackets. Im not sold on using 5/16 plate for the brackets. Even the 3/8 is somewhat iffy IMO. I havent ruled it out yet just a concern as Im driving this on the road as much as the dirt. Also I am having issues with the Lug bolts. I found a Dorman Bolt you may want to look into the 610-215. It looks good in that the rotor holes are very snug to the bolt. Probably the best we can find that is already produced. It may need a couple thousandths taken off the shoulder area but I will see. First I need a lug nut to ensure it will work in my wheel. Good luck with getting this finished.

[mcmlxix]

Originally Posted by SADMAX

Im building a D60 Axle almost from scratch as they dont produce what I am looking for. Like you, I don't like the brakes origionally used on the D60. So I like your thread and progress. My idea is similar to yours in that I was using the factory 2003 Chevy 2500HD brakes since they are already installed on my truck. Since reading this thread I liked the size difference of the Dodge rotor only for one reason. I installed a tone ring on my hubs similar to what Danatrac did. My Chevy rotors have more room than the D60 rotors but it was tight. The dodge Rotors will give plenty of room to mount the sensors. Anyway here is my thoughts/issues with the brackets. Im not sold on using 5/16 plate for the brackets. Even the 3/8 is somewhat iffy IMO. I havent ruled it out yet just a concern as Im driving this on the road as much as the dirt. Also I am having issues with the Lug bolts. I found a Dorman Bolt you may want to look into the 610-215. It looks good in that the rotor holes are very snug to the bolt. Probably the best we can find that is already produced. It may need a couple thousandths taken off the shoulder area but I will see. First I need a lug nut to ensure it will work in my wheel. Good luck with getting this finished.

If I need to upgrade the bracket material, there is an option. Solid Axle makes a new hub that has .33x further offset, so the brackets could be made out of 3/8" or probably 1/2". I just wasnt going to buy new hubs because mine were still usable. If I have issues down the road, I can always take it to the next level.

As far as using 5/16 plate, my though was there isn't really any lateral force on the bracket, only rotational.

The only other option woud be machining a bracket out of billet. It would be alot more expensive but you couldn't beat the cool factor....

[mcmlxix]

[Last_Paladin]

Originally Posted by mcmlxix

I see no problems with 5/16" when you consider that most modern brackets are almost sheet metal. I also agree with the rotational forces, for which there is ALOT of meat there to resist.

Look at the flange the backing plate bolts to on a 14B. Or the backing plate itself.

[ryanroo]

Originally Posted by Last_Paladin

I see no problems with 5/16" when you consider that most modern brackets are almost sheet metal. I also agree with the rotational forces, for which there is ALOT of meat there to resist.

Look at the flange the backing plate bolts to on a 14B. Or the backing plate itself.

my thoughts exactly. i plan to try something similar when i get to the front axle and although i may do it a little differently i would have no issues using 5/16 or even 1/4

ryan

[68 TT]

Parts are looking great.

The shear strength of that 5/16" material with the total surface area you have for the brackets is pretty high.

I doubt you will have any issues with it, but if needed you can put some gussets on it in critical areas and not have to build the whole bracket out of thicker material.

[70custom20]

Just bringing this thread back to the top, as I am very interested in seeing how Rich makes out with all of this. I too feel that the 5/16" thick bracket would be adequate. If someone wanted to make that bracket stronger, but keep the same thickness, a bracket could be cut out of chromoly plate. Just my opinion.
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[kiszka6911]

I too am very interested, I need to do a brake job and I would rather upgrade. I have a set of 17" rims ready and waiting. Working on rebuilding king pins right now. Also changing out the rusted metal brake lines the old rubber lines. If possible I would actually like to purchase a set of brackets. Might help with the testing since my truck is driven daily. Thanks.

[ryanroo]

Originally Posted by 70custom20

Just bringing this thread back to the top, as I am very interested in seeing how Rich makes out with all of this. I too feel that the 5/16" thick bracket would be adequate. If someone wanted to make that bracket stronger, but keep the same thickness, a bracket could be cut out of chromoly plate. Just my opinion.
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the only issue with CM is the welding. someone who knows what they are doing needs to weld it. CM is more heat sensitive than normal steel and can crack if care isnt taken when welding. brake systems are the last thing i would want to worry about cracking.

ryan

[70custom20]

Ryanroo, I'm not saying you don't have a point, but most of what's said about chromoly being this or being that is myth (in my opinion) I wouldn't be afraid to use/weld chromoly at all.
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[Last_Paladin]

Originally Posted by 70custom20

Ryanroo, I'm not saying you don't have a point, but most of what's said about chromoly being this or being that is myth (in my opinion) I wouldn't be afraid to use/weld chromoly at all.
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Same.

[ryanroo]

oh i agree. i am a professional welder though so i feel like its my responsibility to inform the public that improper technique could possibly cause issues. chances are slim, but in an area such as brakes, its not good to invite trouble. really CM is not hard to weld, nor does it weld different. in this application i would temper the part just to be sure i wasnt inviting cracks.

Ryan

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by ryanroo

oh i agree. i am a professional welder though so i feel like its my responsibility to inform the public that improper technique could possibly cause issues. chances are slim, but in an area such as brakes, its not good to invite trouble. really CM is not hard to weld, nor does it weld different. in this application i would temper the part just to be sure i wasnt inviting cracks.

Ryan

I agree. As a certified TIG welder I welded plenty of 4130 in the air force and it is no big deal as long as you watch your heat and use the correct filler material.

The biggest misconception with chome-moly is people thinking it is going to make a part deflect less vs. a mild steel part of the same dimensions which it will not. They both have the same modulus of elasticity so they both bend the same amount under load. The chrome-moly just has a higher ultimate strength so it will fail at a higher load than mild steel giving you more safety margin. Same goes for titanium. It flexes a lot but fails at a very high load. You have to design with the flexibility in mind.

That is why sanctioning bodies allow thinner wall chrome-moly tubing in place of mild steel. They will both end up failing at the same load but the mild steel tubing being thicker is just heavier. It is the primary reason race teams use it. They can lose weight with it.

Dragsters have found they can actually use the extra flex of their thinner wall chrome-moly tube chassis to absorb some of the shock off the line allowing them to put more power to the ground off the line.

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by ryanroo

oh i agree. i am a professional welder though so i feel like its my responsibility to inform the public that improper technique could possibly cause issues. chances are slim, but in an area such as brakes, its not good to invite trouble. really CM is not hard to weld, nor does it weld different. in this application i would temper the part just to be sure i wasnt inviting cracks.

Ryan

I agree it is pretty easy to get into trouble using unfamilar metals.

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by mcmlxix

The 3/8 bracket with the Dodge rotor only has a few thousandths of interference.....

I havent figured out the rest of the braking system yet. I will probably need an adjustable proportioning valve to tune rear bias. The MC only has two ports so I will need a distribution block or a T block for the front. I'm not sure what would have been used in the 2005 GMC from the facotry. Fisrst step, and the reason for this thread, was to see if I can get the parts mounted to the D60. I hope to see the brackets on Monday and have it machined this week coming up....

The way I did my 42jeep was to run the front line to the front cross member to a "T" then to the braided lines and calipers. I ran the rear through a adjustable proportioning valve That i mounted by the master cylinderback to a braided line to a "T" on the axle. Then I took it for a ride and nearly did a stoppie

[kiszka6911]

I am going forward with my conversion project. I picked up a set of 2010 dodge 3500 calipers which crossover to the 2009 parts used from a local reycycler for $5 each which included the abutment and pads with 30k miles. Front u-joints are gone so 35 spline conversion might be on the list. I am planning trying the soild forged hubs (my truck was a dually so I need new hubs) and is powered by a 6BT cummins. I have so many things to repair, king pins, inner axle seals, axle u-joints, bearings. So its going to be quite a project running in parallel with the brake upgrade. Thanks for the great info.

[mcmlxix]

I havent updated in a while because I havent accomplish much... just collecting parts for the LQ9/4L80e swap. Its all connected, disc brakes, hydroboost, etc. so it will all be done in one teardown. I hope this will all start at the end of June and take 2 months MAX... we'll see. Once I know it works I'll figure out about cutting more brackets and at what cost...

[mcmlxix]

Originally Posted by kiszka6911

I am going forward with my conversion project. I picked up a set of 2010 dodge 3500 calipers which crossover to the 2009 parts used from a local reycycler for $5 each which included the abutment and pads with 30k miles. Front u-joints are gone so 35 spline conversion might be on the list. I am planning trying the soild forged hubs (my truck was a dually so I need new hubs) and is powered by a 6BT cummins. I have so many things to repair, king pins, inner axle seals, axle u-joints, bearings. So its going to be quite a project running in parallel with the brake upgrade. Thanks for the great info.

I wanted to go with the solid hubs, but there was nothing wrong with mine. If I did that I could have gone with 3/8" plate for the brackets because the hubs are .33" offset.... I just couldnt justify the $440 bucks at the time.

The banjo bolt on the Dodge calipers are metric, but you can use the stock 3/8 (same as 10mm) banjo fitting, same as stock I believe. I'll probably be getting custom length braided brake lines from www.kore3.com when I get to that point, but I'm not sure yet how much longer they'll need to be....

[mckustomfab]

Any Updates? Killer tech and awesome build, i cant wait to try this out as well.

[mcmlxix]

Getting closer. A few seals and sone paint and I'm ready to assemble the axle...

[mckustomfab]

Originally Posted by mcmlxix

Getting closer. A few seals and sone paint and I'm ready to assemble the axle...

Sweet, cant wait to hear your thoughts on how it works! Great work on the setup.

[70custom20]

Bump. Any updates?
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