My 83' Crew Cab Dually project

[DblTrbl]

There's nothing like a lack of materials to spoil plans to get **** done. Steel supplier can't get the rest of my material until next week now. Kinda puts a damper on my plans for the 5 day weekend.

[DblTrbl]

Okay, I've got a question about the Z. I'm seeing where most guys are not just raising the front, but also moving it forward 1" to "center the wheels in the fender." Is a new driveline in order after doing this, or am I missing something? I don't appear to have any slip shafts. I'm also wondering, does the carrier bearing need to be moved the same distance upward?

[Ghostwhite]

Your slip may be at the carrier bearing and needing to extend would depend on how much useable slip you have when you cycle everything during mock up. Moving the carrier bearing will put it back into optimal alignment but compromises can be made and usually are in a build like ours. Most put it where it fits first and worry about angles second.

I'm far from an expert in that field but there are plenty of resources online I usually find thru google. The 4x4 forums are usually helpful as they push the driveline angles to the extreme.

[SCOTI]

I'm dealing w/the driveline angle stuff now. Even w/my drop, I have a vibration. I have my pinion set @ zero but the working angle between the 2 shafts is excessive.

You'll definitely need to move the carrier bearing up if doing a Z. Mine is just a notched x-member w/the motor in the stock location.

[Ghostwhite]

You wouldn't want zero degrees. In a perfect world you would have the trans output aimed downward 3* and the carrier bearing positioned inline between the trans output and pinion but angled with the the front of the carrier up 3*, making the 'output' of the carrier pointing down 3*. Then the pinion up 3* to cancel out the angles. This makes the trans, carrier and pinion parallel angles.

The hardest part is getting the carrier inline between the trans output and the pinion but having the angles cancel is more important.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Ghostwhite

You wouldn't want zero degrees. In a perfect world you would have the trans output aimed downward 3* and the carrier bearing positioned inline between the trans output and pinion but angled with the the front of the carrier up 3*, making the 'output' of the carrier pointing down 3*. Then the pinion up 3* to cancel out the angles. This makes the trans, carrier and pinion parallel angles.

The hardest part is getting the carrier inline between the trans output and the pinion but having the angles cancel is more important.

I'm aware of how it 'should' go. Good luck getting those numbers w/o cutting up the entire floorpan (Z up front + step notched rear).

[DblTrbl]

Originally Posted by Ghostwhite

You wouldn't want zero degrees. In a perfect world you would have the trans output aimed downward 3* and the carrier bearing positioned inline between the trans output and pinion but angled with the the front of the carrier up 3*, making the 'output' of the carrier pointing down 3*. Then the pinion up 3* to cancel out the angles. This makes the trans, carrier and pinion parallel angles.

The hardest part is getting the carrier inline between the trans output and the pinion but having the angles cancel is more important.

That's actually extremely helpful. Thanks!

I can already see that I'll have to do some work on the trans hump. I hope to be able to make use of the high hump that's in the donor burb.

The carrier has to move up anyhow...even without a Z. It hangs a good 2" below the (new) frame.

[DblTrbl]

I moved forward on the one side that I had material for. Got it all burned in and cut the lower frame off.







The remaining stock frame looks like Swiss cheese. I'll have to put some time in welding the holes up.

[ruffrida2005]

Frame is looking good. I was gonna do 4x2 for my frame, but I'm really starting to think about doing 4x3 instead.

[Ghostwhite]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

I'm aware of how it 'should' go. Good luck getting those numbers w/o cutting up the entire floorpan (Z up front + step notched rear).

I hear ya, packaging always ends up making things like this a compromise. The crank center-line on my Cummins is ridiculously tall, my floor-pan will most likely have to be channeled from the huge hole I'll need for the trans all the way to back, even after taking 2" out of the oil pan.

Originally Posted by ruffrida2005

Frame is looking good. I was gonna do 4x2 for my frame, but I'm really starting to think about doing 4x3 instead.

4x3 makes for a nice, easy weld joint along the top of the tube.

[DblTrbl]

Originally Posted by ruffrida2005

Frame is looking good. I was gonna do 4x2 for my frame, but I'm really starting to think about doing 4x3 instead.

Yep, what Ghostwhite said. Plus, our trucks are a long span (11' 1" on mine), and the additional size should help to curb the flex. I'd have actually gone taller if I could have fit it. My stock frame varies in width from 2 1/4" - 3" (a product of poor quality control in the factory it seems), so the 3" wide cleans all of that up.

[ruffrida2005]

I hear ya about the 4x3, I already have 40' of 4x2.

[DblTrbl]

Originally Posted by ruffrida2005

I hear ya about the 4x3, I already have 40' of 4x2.

Can any of you guys point me to some more info on Z'ing the frame? I've seen straight Z's and the inch forward Z's. My wheels appear to be centered in the fender already. The forum search function doesn't like just "Z" as a search and most everything I bring up doesn't touch on what I need to know; is the inch forward really needed?

[tinydb84]

Try "Z'd" "Z'ing"

I did 1 inch forward. The wheels looked more centered. I wouldn't have cleared the firewall of I didnt.

[Ghostwhite]

Originally Posted by DblTrbl

Can any of you guys point me to some more info on Z'ing the frame? I've seen straight Z's and the inch forward Z's. My wheels appear to be centered in the fender already. The forum search function doesn't like just "Z" as a search and most everything I bring up doesn't touch on what I need to know; is the inch forward really needed?

Like tiny said its all up to you whether you want to or not. Most trucks do not have the front wheels centered in the fenderwell but if yours are I wouldn't worry about it. The clearance for big wheels is also a huge factor, I had thought about Z'n forward on my build and still am not decided. The dropmember I have should have moved it forward enough but the few times I've glanced at it it looked back a bit. I am also going to tub the firewall as much as I need to gain some turning clearance.

The best search utility for me to use google's site specific searches. Enter "site:67-72chevytrucks.com" without quotes before your search terms and it will search only this site. It is not perfect and will not order the results by date but I use it for searching forums every day.

Here is an example ->
site:67-72chevytrucks.com frame z

[DblTrbl]

Thanks guys. I think I've got enough knowledge to do the Z correctly now. 😉

Since I'm still without material, I decided to move into the next logical step and did some tear down today. Front clip is off and engine/trans are out. Now I need to figure out how I'm going to get these cleaned with it being 10* outside...

[DblTrbl]

Finally got the rest of my material. I finished putting the driver's side rail in and tied in the remaining (very little) part of the original frame. Now I'm measuring and getting ready to do the Z. I was able to get the slip on the driveshaft to break free, so I'm moving the Z an inch forward.

[ruffrida2005]

Post measurements if you can

[DblTrbl]

Originally Posted by ruffrida2005

Post measurements if you can

Which measurements do you want?

[DblTrbl]

Here's the (updated) Z measurements. Guessing that's what you're looking for?

[DblTrbl]

Finished for today. I got the Z in place and started on the bracing and tying into the front part of the frame. I can't decide at this point if I'm going to put another piece of tube under the one that's in place or if I'll just trim and plate the underside before I do the fishplates. I've been staring at it for too long, so it's time to quit and ponder for a while...

Anyway, here's what I got done today.

[DblTrbl]

Made some filler plates and started finishing off the Z.







Still need to do some cleanup and make a small sliver of a filler for the top of the frame where it goes from 3" to 2". I plan to grind it all down and smooth it when I'm done.

[ruffrida2005]

Yes sir. Those are what I was looking for. Truck is looking good.

[tinydb84]

Nice clean work!!

[DblTrbl]

Thanks guys...

I finished up the filler plates today and smoothed all of the welds. The whole thing was incredibly time consuming...did I mention how much I loathe grinding?









There's some kind of shmutz on the 3/16" plate that I got from Pacific; it was a drop from their plasma table, so something must have gotten on it...whatever it is, it doesn't grind for sh!t. I may have to hit it with the sand blaster before I paint it...