No Limit Trailing Arm Rear Suspension

[SierraMtns]

Worked with Jessica at No Limit this morning and got this kit order. Went with 12" 250 lbs springs and 2" blocks. It sounds like they don't have a c-notch built for this kit yet. I'll mount the kit and see how much of a notch will be needed. Would like to keep as much of the frame a possible. I have looked at a couple pipe notches. I'll keep you guys posted.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by SierraMtns

Is a 1 5/8" bit needed or 5/8" drill bit? I marked it in red.

Thanks

Oops, it is a 5/8" drill bit. You will need three bits in total. 1/4", 3/8", and 5/8".

Thanks for the order, - no notch yet, appx 60 days

[SierraMtns]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Oops, it is a 5/8" drill bit. You will need three bits in total. 1/4", 3/8", and 5/8".

Thanks for the order, - no notch yet, appx 60 days

Thanks Rob I'll keep checking back on the c-notch.


Does the kit come with any cool No Limit stickers? I have a tool box that needs more stickers.

Thanks Nick

[turbotruck]

can this kit be used without a notch?

[Trixxterr]

Like very much. Now, if could justg get my build going. This would be perfect, upgrade.

[dfraze]

This setup is what I have been looking for. I should finish up the install this weekend. Top quality components and company. It will be while for I get to put on the ground since I just started my build.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by turbotruck

can this kit be used without a notch?

Yes, you would loose about 1" in total available drop/compression range.

[turbotruck]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Yes, you would loose about 1" in total available drop/compression range.

It would be used for drag/street racing and daily driving. 4' drop it has now is plenty

[crakarjax]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Yes, you would loose about 1" in total available drop/compression range.

Is that all? The CPP notch added at least 2" additional clearance on my truck with the provided shorty bump stops, and even more when considering where the stock bumpstops were setting the rearend.

[SierraMtns]

Rob,

Is the yellow truck bed floor wood or steel? Also, did the owner cut holes in the trailing arm cross member to run the exhaust through?

Thanks

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by SierraMtns

Rob,

Is the yellow truck bed floor wood or steel? Also, did the owner cut holes in the trailing arm cross member to run the exhaust through?

Thanks

This truck has a wood floor. Yes, the OE crossmember was ported for the exhaust.

[robnolimit]

Update. Cory brought his truck out to Cruisin the Smokies for two days of Auto-X fun, and we did a little tuning. The truck showed us very quickly that without the ability to tune the front shocks, the trucks performance wall came up pretty quick. We could have 1) increased neg. camber, 2) added more positive caster, 3) added some toe-out, but we were trying to keep it in very street friendly trim. Also, we were having too much fun to get real serious. The truck handled great, and drives smoother and more predictable than ever. Cory did finish 2nd in the truck class - first was a supercharged Trail Blazer SS - hard to beat the ABS and traction control. With some driving under his belt now, Cory is eyeing a WideRide IFS to replace the current set up. If you are interested in the Hotchkis TVS components and brakes, it is now for sale.

[68Stepbed]

I may have a video of Corey's truck. I'll look for it this evening.

[empi1776]

Hi
how much is the tvs system?

[The Pitt]

I see that shock placement was already addressed but maybe you would consider input for future iterations or options.

Why not incorporate the coilover mounts into the trackbar mount and behind the axle? or at least on the c-notch brackets to bring them more vertical and closer to the rear axle?

Wouldnt this allow the shock to control compression and rebound more effeciently?

Of course doing either of those would severely limit exhaust routing for a rear mounted gas tank. I would rather have my exhaust exit in front of the rear axle personally.

[crakarjax]

Originally Posted by The Pitt

I see that shock placement was already addressed but maybe you would consider input for future iterations or options.

Why not incorporate the coilover mounts into the trackbar mount and behind the axle? or at least on the c-notch brackets to bring them more vertical and closer to the rear axle?

Wouldnt this allow the shock to control compression and rebound more effeciently?

Of course doing either of those would severely limit exhaust routing for a rear mounted gas tank. I would rather have my exhaust exit in front of the rear axle personally.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I see it the shock can be tuned to perform the same no matter what angle it's at -- it's effectiveness is lessened at greater angles necessitating a stiffer shock for equivalent performance to a vertical shock. Angling the shock might make it easier to find a shock since it becomes longer, physically.

The downside to an angled shock that I can see is that as suspension travels, the shock angle changes. This results in a inconsistent shock performance throughout the suspension travel, as the performance varies with shock angle. On the other hand, maybe you want the shock's performance to vary in this way due to your suspension design. I have not seen any designs that claim to take this into consideration though.

[robnolimit]

Way back in the late '90's, we made a coil over mount set up for these trucks that mounted the shock behind the axle. - Just like what everyone else is doing now. It's all about leverage, so the farther back you are from the trailing arm pivot, the less the shock is leveraged. A shock/spring behind the axle is great for hauling rocks, but looses it's ability to help the tire stay stuck to the road when the truck is empty (no rocks). While our coil-over may seam 'out of place' compared to others, think about the location of the factory coil spring, not too far from our new mounting points. As to shock valving/action, it's just a question of matching the valving to the ratios and weights. Just like the difference of front shocks and rear shocks, 50% leveraged compared to 1-1 ratio. Also, many suspension designs incorporate the shock angle as it relates to the suspension travel angle, which is usually no straight up and down, as the suspension travels in arcs, and the shock needs to stay close to 90 degrees to the suspension motion, not 90 degrees to the ground.
Thanks for the input, and all of those things are a factor we need to think about.

[crakarjax]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

A shock/spring behind the axle is great for hauling rocks, but looses it's ability to help the tire stay stuck to the road when the truck is empty (no rocks).

Can you explain why this is?

I'm imagining two shock locations, one in front and one behind the axle and both mounted to the frame rails. Both locations are selected for identical shock angle and length. I'm considering the frame to be actually stiff between the two shock mounting points. The only difference that I can think of here is the force applied to the shock due to leverage, which can be compensated for with different valving.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by crakarjax

Can you explain why this is?

I'm imagining two shock locations, one in front and one behind the axle and both mounted to the frame rails. Both locations are selected for identical shock angle and length. I'm considering the frame to be actually stiff between the two shock mounting points. The only difference that I can think of here is the force applied to the shock due to leverage, which can be compensated for with different valving.

well, yes and no. Yes, it's leverage and force, it's also shaft speed of the shock. And, while it is reasonably true that custom valving and spring rates can be fitted to be a perfect match, the question is, are they available? Look at the current crop of aftermarket coil-over. Do they spec 'front' or 'rear' valve codes? Remember that most 'front' shocks are at close to 2 to 1 leverage ratio, and most 'rear' shocks are at a 1 to 1 ratio, or close. Factor in the weights and it is clear that the typical front shock need 4x the valving resistance as compared to a rear shock (very wide liberal estimate for discussion) While they do offer adjustable valving, it is all in a set range. So , our job is to use what is available, test it on a shock dyno, set the valving range and then design a way to use off the shelf parts and make them work to the best of their ability.

[crakarjax]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

well, yes and no. Yes, it's leverage and force, it's also shaft speed of the shock. And, while it is reasonably true that custom valving and spring rates can be fitted to be a perfect match, the question is, are they available? Look at the current crop of aftermarket coil-over. Do they spec 'front' or 'rear' valve codes? Remember that most 'front' shocks are at close to 2 to 1 leverage ratio, and most 'rear' shocks are at a 1 to 1 ratio, or close. Factor in the weights and it is clear that the typical front shock need 4x the valving resistance as compared to a rear shock (very wide liberal estimate for discussion) While they do offer adjustable valving, it is all in a set range. So , our job is to use what is available, test it on a shock dyno, set the valving range and then design a way to use off the shelf parts and make them work to the best of their ability.

From what I read just now, shock leverage ratio is the ratio of wheel movement to shock shaft movement -- I might be misunderstanding though, because the only way to get a 1:1 ratio would be to have a shock mounted along the axis of axle motion, correct?

[robnolimit]

Yes, that is correct. to simplify the discussion, I am painting with a VERY wide brush. There are way too many factors to discuss them all here down to the last detail. So, for our basic discussion, a shock mounted to the axle, and somewhat close to straight up/down, would be somewhere near a 1 to 1 ratio.

[SierraMtns]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Oops, it is a 5/8" drill bit. You will need three bits in total. 1/4", 3/8", and 5/8".

Thanks for the order, - no notch yet, appx 60 days

Hey Rob,

Any updates on the notch? I am going to order the Wide Ride front but holding out until the rear notch is done.

[SierraMtns]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

Oops, it is a 5/8" drill bit. You will need three bits in total. 1/4", 3/8", and 5/8".

Thanks for the order, - no notch yet, appx 60 days

Originally Posted by robnolimit

OK OK. Here are some picts. The truck sits good now with the bed on, but no floor in it yet. The truck has appx 1" rake. One of the things that slowed picts down is that the truck was apart again for a cam swap and a tune. The owner reports that the torque and throttle response is WAY better, and even with the increased power, the truck hooks and leaves with a lot less wheel spin. He also reports that mid corner grip and corner exit grip/acceleration inspires a LOT of confidence. (maybe too much) - But that it really stays connected to the road. The current spring is a 14" 225 lb. We are going to try a 12" 250lb spring to get a little bit more drop, more adjustment on the spring collar, and a bit firmer - about 10% is all. One pict shows the clearance in the notch at Ride Height.

Rob,

When you guys went to the 12" 250lb spring did you change the shock? Or did he stick with the C213-W shock (7.00" shock stroke)?

[SierraMtns]

Parts are here. I worked with Tina and Jessica get them ordered. Great ladies over there and AWESOME customer service. When the coilovers arrived ViKing sent the wrong springs. Jessica took care of everything and got new springs shipped the next day.

The only bummer was a couple of the parts arrived with powered coat nicked up. I assume this happened during shipping since I wouldn't think No Limit would let them leave the shop this way.

[crakarjax]

Originally Posted by SierraMtns

Parts are here.

Just curious, did the heims come with dust boots? IDK if that's required but I keep seeing people say that heims don't last as long as OE stuff and I'm wondering if that would help longevity...