3 speed overdrive!!, now about getting it in.......

[Janky59]

OK, finally time for an update and driving report.

I had a local mechanic do the majority of the installation. Between a lack of free time for me and him having a garage and lift it was the way to go for me.

While the tranny was pulled he had the flywheel resurfaced, it didn't need a lot taken off. I'd already purchased a new clutch kit from LMC, so that went in too. He decided to reuse the existing bronze pilot bearing, installed the new throw out bearing and clutch/pressure plate.

Being my OD was from a car (versus a truck one) he drilled/tapped/installed a Helicoil in the bottom two trans mounting ears to keep it the same as the old tranny. I wanted to have some skin in the game so I told him I would finish up the remainder of the installation (wiring and lock out cable hook up).

So the initial drive was just in 3 speed mode, but I could tell the freewheel effect the OD had right off the bat. The other thing was the new clutch was a 10X improvement over the old, that change was worth it alone. General shifting was better too. The old tranny always worked better with a double clutch between 1-2 and 2-3, but this tranny didn't need any of that.

All was not wine and roses however as the trans. would jump out of 3rd gear after a minute or so at a steady cruise. Very disheartening, but more on this issue later.

So, Sunday evening I got working on the lockout cable hook up and wiring. I'd already did some of the wiring installation earlier so there wasn't a lot to do. I thank those who posted earlier their wiring setups.

After checking over my work it was time for a road test. I admit the 1st couple of times I tried to get the OD to engage I wasn't successful. It was getting late so I packed it in, tail between my legs, and thinking what or where did I go wrong.

The next day at work I went over my wiring set up with an electrical engineer and confirmed I had the right layout and decided on a trouble shooting path.

Long story short, I think my unsuccessful attempts were my fault. Mainly I was being too impatient. When I went out on the next road test I lifted on the throttle longer than I had previously - and bingo - that was the trick! I felt the sort of tug of the engagement and when back on the gas, the rpm drop. Yeah baby, I was smiling ear to ear!

Since then I've done a commute to work and a couple of trips in to town and back, I've probably got 100 miles under my belt so far.

On my work drive I used a Garmin GPS to track my rpm/speed and odo readings. The odo reading were spot on in agreement with each other, confirming the speedo drive was the same as the original tranny. FWIW my speedometer reads right about 10 mph under (what's deal with that?) the GPS reading.

This other part is the best - I'm cruising right at 60 mph and my tach reading is dead nuts on 2,000 rpm (give or take 50 rpm). As I thought from the ratio numbers, instead of screaming along at 3,000, she's humming along relaxed at 2,000 - perfect. This is with the stock 3.90 rear and P235/75R-15 tires.

I'm getting the hang of the other traits of the OD too, like clutchless up and down shifts, no 1st gear grinding at walking speeds. I'm digging the Borg Warner T10 Over Drive life!

I've tracked my mpg over the last 6 months and I'll continue and post up later what I learn. Thanks again to those who have posted in this thread - invaluable information.

[MikeN]

Originally Posted by Janky59

All was not wine and roses however as the trans. would jump out of 3rd gear after a minute or so at a steady cruise. Very disheartening, but more on this issue later.

My truck is not an OD, but...my original 3-speed failed, and I replaced it with one from a passenger car. Mine replacement transmission would jump out of 3rd gear just as yours does. I eventually figured out that the bearing retainer on the front of the passenger car transmission was smaller in diameter than the one on the truck transmission, and therefore did NOT fit tightly in the hole in the rear of the bell housing. I could never prove that this caused the problem, but either way, it's not correct and something you should be mindful of.

I ended up swapping to a much beefier, later model all-synchro 3-speed from a 69 Chevelle.

[Gianyveedub]

Glad to hear that you are getting to drive the overdrive. Post pics of the truck and show off the fruit of your labor.

[frankslagoon]

I been runnin mine for two years now and just use a 30 amp switch to the sol. no problems yet. I stay in O/D most of time unless I want to play around. then just turn the switch off and punch it. if I'm cruisen I use it like a passing gear.

[luvbowties]

Originally Posted by frankslagoon

I been runnin mine for two years now and just use a 30 amp switch to the sol. no problems yet. I stay in O/D most of time unless I want to play around. then just turn the switch off and punch it. if I'm cruisen I use it like a passing gear.

Very Nice!

So, does that give you 6 forward gears? Tons of fun to drive, isn't it? Take off easy, and by flipping switch & shifting properly, you can reach cruising speed w/out exceeding 1500 RPM's--well, maybe a tad more, but NO strain on the engine to get from 0mph to 60mph. ....and keep left foot off the clutch pedal for many of those shifts! (Had mine switched/wired thru a 2nd dimmer switch I installed in the floor & used left foot to do the engaging/disengaging of the solenoid.

Know you enjoy it. I used to until I broke it driving too hard, like an idiot.
Sam

[frankslagoon]

Originally Posted by luvbowties

Very Nice!

So, does that give you 6 forward gears? Tons of fun to drive, isn't it? Take off easy, and by flipping switch & shifting properly, you can reach cruising speed w/out exceeding 1500 RPM's--well, maybe a tad more, but NO strain on the engine to get from 0mph to 60mph. ....and keep left foot off the clutch pedal for many of those shifts! (Had mine switched/wired thru a 2nd dimmer switch I installed in the floor & used left foot to do the engaging/disengaging of the solenoid.

Know you enjoy it. I used to until I broke it driving too hard, like an idiot.
Sam

Well, I actually have 8 fward gears, but ya can only use 4 at a time. I can't really go 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 very easy.

[waspp]

Originally Posted by frankslagoon

Well, I actually have 8 fward gears, but ya can only use 4 at a time. I can't really go 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 very easy.

So with the switch you can eliminate the governor switch on the trans and simply have manual control something like a splitter? I am getting ready to install mine soon but not sure about how I want the solenoid to operate.

[frankslagoon]

Originally Posted by waspp

So with the switch you can eliminate the governor switch on the trans and simply have manual control something like a splitter? I am getting ready to install mine soon but not sure about how I want the solenoid to operate.

That's correct. I used a nice 10 or 12 guage wire from the ign. side of the fuse block. I only pull the cable out a couple times a year just to keep it freed up. But the correct way is to use the governor to trip a relay so it comes out of o/d when ya get down to 25 or so. starten out in 1st in o/d is hard on the o/d unit and your clutch. Mine is a 4 sp. so first is low enough that I can just leave it in o/d if I don't push it. But ya just flip the switch when your comin to a stop and it will shift out of o/d and then turn it back on when ya want to go into o/d. Even if you use the governor you won't be able to drop out of o/d when your cruisen to pass or climb a hill without the kickdown circuit unless ya have a manual switch like mine someplace. In this pic you can see the wire following the speedo cable and goin up to the shifter and then back down to the solienod. I think the second dimmer switch on the floor would be cool also.

[waspp]

I like the idea of another floor "dimmer" switch, you could leave the governor to control low speed function but have the switch available for manual kick down out of o/d when you want.

[Janky59]

I have an update since my installation last fall. The OD side of things have been working great, the hang up is the jumping out of 3rd gear.

The mechanic has had it out 2 or 3 times, we've tried different things, I honestly don't recall the specifics, but the short of it is nothing that was tried made any difference about the problem. I chalk it up to a dud of a tranny I happened to get, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

So, rather than spend more time and money chasing down the issue, I cut my losses and bought a fully rebuilt tranny. Yeah, it looks a lot like the old one coming out, being silver and such, but I don't think the color will jinx me In all I put a little over 1000 mi. on the old one, everything worked, except for the 3rd gear problem.

I'll have the new one installed this weekend and post a follow up.

I do have one question for now, in the bottom picture, I have an arrow drawn to a hex head screw on the solenoid. This is the correct screw I connect my power from the relay to - correct? This terminal has "4" stamped near it on the cover.

My old solenoid has a different wiring set up so I just wanted to ask. I think this is the right one. Thanks.

[frankslagoon]

I think your right. just touch a hot wire to it and it should try to kick the sol. in.

[Janky59]

Frank - it was the right spot to connect the power circuit.
I got the new trans installed on Saturday, I did some other cleaning and painting while it was out so I didn't test drive it until the next day.
I'm very happy to report this tranny does everything it is supposed to, shifts normally, stays in gear, OD engages as it should. I'll enjoy many miles cruising this spring with my fully working overdrive.

[frankslagoon]

[Gianyveedub]

That's awesome to hear. I hope that you enjoy it as much as I did. These transmissions make driving on the freeway so much more manageable.

[ncoonen]

I will soon have a Muncie 319 with R10 overdrive unit and plan to put it behind a fresh-built 292 in my '63 C10. I have gone over the wiring and hoped to setup the kickdown switch as originally intended but the 292 will be using an HEI distributor. Is there a way to setup the ignition interrupt - which is necessary to drop out of overdrive - with HEI? I think there isn't a way to do this without compromising (that is, ruining) the HEI distributor electronics.

Thoughts? Plan B is to put a switch of some sort in the governors ground circuit. That will work, but not be as clean.

In related news, I found a scan of a Studebaker Service Manual for the 3-speed overdrive transmission. Just another useful resource to understand and service this wonderful transmission.

Thanks...ned.

[frankslagoon]

First let me say I don't use the kick down circuit, but if the system is wired correctly with the proper relays and kickdown switch, the kickdown will shut off the O/D sol. and ground the primary ign. as soon as the pawl slides back it reenergizes the primary circuit and away ya go, passing gear. this happens super fast. less then 1/2 a revolution. When ya let off the throttle the solinod gets power back and ya go into O/d again. So, anyway you probably know all this and I might not be totally correct, anyway. The only thing the system does is complete the ground circuit to the neg. side of the coil. . The gov. is already grounded at hway speed so a switch that interuped that circuit would bring ya out of over drive but you would still have to let up on the throttle to release the sol. pawl. That's why I don't use the kickdown interrupt. I have a switch in the wire goin to the sol. to kick it in and out. The ground controled relay to bring ya out of O/D at 25 mph is a good idea, but the kickdown is a whole nother pain,

[ray_mcavoy]

Originally Posted by ncoonen

I have gone over the wiring and hoped to setup the kickdown switch as originally intended but the 292 will be using an HEI distributor. Is there a way to setup the ignition interrupt - which is necessary to drop out of overdrive - with HEI? I think there isn't a way to do this without compromising (that is, ruining) the HEI distributor electronics.

You're right, grounding the negative side of the coil (as is done with the stock interrupt) can damage the HEI module.

However, you could use a relay to interrupt power to the HEI. Run the HEI power feed through the relay's N.C. (normally closed) set of contacts. Hook one side of the relay's coil to power and the other side to the OD interrupt wire.

[ncoonen]

That idea had occurred to me but I was thinking that cutting all power to the HEI might be a little brutal. Would it recover as quickly as the old school coil-n-points setup? It's worth a try I suppose...I have the relays. The kick-down circuit as designed is a pretty elegant setup I want to keep it if possible.

...ned.

Originally Posted by ray_mcavoy

You're right, grounding the negative side of the coil (as is done with the stock interrupt) can damage the HEI module.

However, you could use a relay to interrupt power to the HEI. Run the HEI power feed through the relay's N.C. (normally closed) set of contacts. Hook one side of the relay's coil to power and the other side to the OD interrupt wire.

[ncoonen]

I think you've got all the facts there. The manual switch to interrupt the OD solenoid like you've hooked up is my Plan B at the moment but it would still require you to "switch-lift-mash" in order to drop out of OD and accelerate. Doing all that by just mashing the go pedal is the slick setup I'd like to replicate while using HEI.

...ned.

Originally Posted by frankslagoon

First let me say I don't use the kick down circuit, but if the system is wired correctly with the proper relays and kickdown switch, the kickdown will shut off the O/D sol. and ground the primary ign. as soon as the pawl slides back it reenergizes the primary circuit and away ya go, passing gear. this happens super fast. less then 1/2 a revolution. When ya let off the throttle the solinod gets power back and ya go into O/d again. So, anyway you probably know all this and I might not be totally correct, anyway. The only thing the system does is complete the ground circuit to the neg. side of the coil. . The gov. is already grounded at hway speed so a switch that interuped that circuit would bring ya out of over drive but you would still have to let up on the throttle to release the sol. pawl. That's why I don't use the kickdown interrupt. I have a switch in the wire goin to the sol. to kick it in and out. The ground controled relay to bring ya out of O/D at 25 mph is a good idea, but the kickdown is a whole nother pain,

[frankslagoon]

I know what you mean. I quess the real goal is to reverse the torgue flow really fast. I wonder if you could get the throttle to hick up some way other then, switch lift mash,

[ray_mcavoy]

Originally Posted by ncoonen

That idea had occurred to me but I was thinking that cutting all power to the HEI might be a little brutal. Would it recover as quickly as the old school coil-n-points setup? It's worth a try I suppose...I have the relays. The kick-down circuit as designed is a pretty elegant setup I want to keep it if possible.

That thought crossed my mind too. But other than being at a higher RPM, it's not really much different than when you switch off the ignition and it cuts power to the HEI.

However, you don't typically switch the ignition right back on a split second later. So that's a little bit of an unknown as to how quickly the HEI will recover and/or if switching power back on so soon will have any detrimental effects.

[1restorick]

I use an MSD 6AL ignition box on my truck. I have the cut off circuit wired to the white trigger wire on the box. It has worked perfect for over twenty five years. Just another option to consider.

[62 Barnfind]

I am trying to get my 3 speed overdrive in. I now have it painted and ready butt I'm missing a speedometer housing. As you can see in the pic. I have looked everywhere and called transmission shops and no luck. Can someone measure theirs and tell me how long and what is comparable?

[frankslagoon]

10 pm here and just pulled in the yard. I have a O/d like yours in the shed. I'll pull the bullet and compare to a reg. 3 sp. in the morning.

[frankslagoon]

the one on the left is from a Muncie o/d the one on the right is from a Muncie standard 3 sp. which is the common speedo bullit. dia. are the same. the long driven gears are available new I know. the bullet, not sure.