Make it handle

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by 69gmcc10

Rob,

I was noticed that you added a splitter and a spoiler to Hellboy and it got me wondering about mechanical vs. aero grip on these trucks. We spend most of our time working on mechanical grip, but what and where are the gains of a sleek 67 hood, tonneau cover, splitter and spoiler? Can you elaborate on the principles, you must have done those things for a good reason?

Thanks for your willingness to share your wealth of knowledge.

I guess I should tell the truth. - Part of the reason for the splitter/spoiler was to pump up the look for SEMA, and to help get us in to the Optima Invitational. Looks does help create a buzz. But, There is a performance reason. Two weeks before SEMA we were at the "Return to the Coast" event in El-Toro, and that was the first time I had ran the HellBoy on a big coarse (100mph+) I was surprised to learn that I won the road coarse event, beating the #2 finisher (Karl Dunn in his 'Blu-Balz' camaro, who I raced with a few times and like and respect) by more than a full second. I laughed a bit at this. You go out for four 'hot' timed laps per session, three sessions per day. I know the exact lap I went that tfast, and I was a bit scared most of the way around. This was the first time I entered a corner at 80+ and the bach was more than a little loose. On the main and back straight I could feel the front bobble around a bit, and it took a little brake check to get it settled before a corner. WOW, that was interesting. Two weeks until SEMA and the road coarse at Optima is bigger and faster. Splitter/spoiler. It didn't need much, and they work very well, too well maybe. With the radiator in the back I need some air to cool it. The splitter kept so much air out from under the truck that the temps got into the 'nervous' region. But the feel on the track was great. My fast lap at Optima was good for 9th overall on the big track, fastest truck, and shocked the crap out of myself. I may lift the splitter appx 1", it looks cool, but it scrapes on everything. Again, trail and error, and a whole lot of fun.

[AJohn6]

Originally Posted by hotrod1

Hey Adam

Let us know how the 3/4 front and 3/4 rear works for you.

I sure will, just keep in mind that the completion date is a long way off. Justin @ Scotts Hotrods runs them on his '67 and said they work great with the tunability of the balance bar.

-Adam

[69gmcc10]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

I guess I should tell the truth. - Part of the reason for the splitter/spoiler was to pump up the look for SEMA, and to help get us in to the Optima Invitational. Looks does help create a buzz. But, There is a performance reason. Two weeks before SEMA we were at the "Return to the Coast" event in El-Toro, and that was the first time I had ran the HellBoy on a big coarse (100mph+) I was surprised to learn that I won the road coarse event, beating the #2 finisher (Karl Dunn in his 'Blu-Balz' camaro, who I raced with a few times and like and respect) by more than a full second. I laughed a bit at this. You go out for four 'hot' timed laps per session, three sessions per day. I know the exact lap I went that tfast, and I was a bit scared most of the way around. This was the first time I entered a corner at 80+ and the bach was more than a little loose. On the main and back straight I could feel the front bobble around a bit, and it took a little brake check to get it settled before a corner. WOW, that was interesting. Two weeks until SEMA and the road coarse at Optima is bigger and faster. Splitter/spoiler. It didn't need much, and they work very well, too well maybe. With the radiator in the back I need some air to cool it. The splitter kept so much air out from under the truck that the temps got into the 'nervous' region. But the feel on the track was great. My fast lap at Optima was good for 9th overall on the big track, fastest truck, and shocked the crap out of myself. I may lift the splitter appx 1", it looks cool, but it scrapes on everything. Again, trail and error, and a whole lot of fun.

I guess those are two good reasons! I wont lie the aero hardware looks mean! How beneficial is the tonneau cover vs an open truck bed, should we all be running one?

[moregrip]

was thinking about this thread today and front upper/lower a-arms......not sure if its been covered....is there an ideal relationship to the ground for best handling? i.e. flat (parallel to ground), pointed up, pointed down?

[1970 C10 MJW]

SUB'D this is a awesome page a lil over my head but i am trying to learn how to make my truck turn a corner

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by moregrip

was thinking about this thread today and front upper/lower a-arms......not sure if its been covered....is there an ideal relationship to the ground for best handling? i.e. flat (parallel to ground), pointed up, pointed down?

I usually try to keep the lower A-arm level to the road. This would be the line from the center of the pivit bushing to the pivit center of the ball joint. - this ma bee a bit different than the arm itself. On street cars, I would want to just a bit more spring hieght, with the ball joint slightly lower than the bushing, and for a track set up, just the opposit, with the ball joint slightly higher. All of this would be within 5 degrees of being level.

[jimmydean]

I want to see these pics of Hellboy with the road course spoiler!

[C0UCH]

These wheels are amazing! Truck looks great Rob! Very impressed.

[jimmydean]

Rob, the pic you posted on Facebook of Hellboy in downtown Portland is one of my favorite truck pics. I love everything about that truck and to see it in my part of town is awesome.

[C0UCH]

I'd give my first born for those wheels.
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[67cheby]

that is a SUPER COOL PICTURE

[cory d]

put my 1 1/4" bar on and replced the control arm bushings with energy suspensiond black bushings. i just need to test it out lol. DARN YOU ICE

[moregrip]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

I usually try to keep the lower A-arm level to the road. This would be the line from the center of the pivit bushing to the pivit center of the ball joint. - this ma bee a bit different than the arm itself. On street cars, I would want to just a bit more spring hieght, with the ball joint slightly lower than the bushing, and for a track set up, just the opposit, with the ball joint slightly higher. All of this would be within 5 degrees of being level.

[cory d]

my truck feels 100 times better after the bushing replacement, i talked t a local guy about how he builds his panhards. he owns a small shop just minutes away, i may by some parts from him

[jimmydean]

[cory d]

I saw on you JT truck that you placed the panhard pretty far off center of the axle. Does this have an effect turning one dirrection or the other? If so is there a good compromise between lateral location on the axel and rod lenght?

PANHARD BEFORE REAR SWAY BAR
Would you suggest adding a panhard bore a rear sway bar? Sounds like circle folk mount the panhar bar to the left side of the frame so the panhard bar gains a downward angle when cornering. Would this have a noticable effect when not combined with a rear sway bar?

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by cory d

I saw on you JT truck that you placed the panhard pretty far off center of the axle. Does this have an effect turning one dirrection or the other? If so is there a good compromise between lateral location on the axel and rod lenght?

PANHARD BEFORE REAR SWAY BAR
Would you suggest adding a panhard bore a rear sway bar? Sounds like circle folk mount the panhar bar to the left side of the frame so the panhard bar gains a downward angle when cornering. Would this have a noticable effect when not combined with a rear sway bar?

JT's panhard rod is our C10 "Pro Panhard" kit. Our goal was to make it as long as we could and package it into the stock confines of the C10. For the most part it goes from frame to trailing arm, and is very close to being centered. If you 'tip', or 'wedge' a panhard rod, you can gain some downforce on one corner, say a left hander, but you loose big on the other one, the right hander. Also, 'tipping' the panhard rod creates much more side-to-side movement of the housing. This may work on a left hander dirt tracker, but not for us on the street.
Sway bars are the best bang for the buck upgrade. But these other items need to be addressed at some point to get the best out of the truck.

[Gupster]

Rob,

Been a lurker here for awhile, really enjoy reading your thoughts/direction and teachings (as well as other mfg. in put), then dreaming how to apply to my application 68 c10. The wish list is growing.

On post #1516 the bore size 13/16 X 3/4 you talk about, would this be true for hydro boost system?

You also mentioned on another post that you were getting a set of Porter lower a-arms for JT, have you had a chance to install and see what alignment you ended up with?

Thanks in advance for your time.

Greg in Fresno, CA

[robnolimit]

For a hydro I use a 1 1/8" bore master, hydro boosts make so much pressure you need a big bore to calm them down.
Yes, we did put a set of Porterbuilt "forward" lower arms on the JT. It was easy to get the caster in the 6-7 range. Drives great. Look for an article in Street Trucks.

[cory d]

I'll just hunt the junk yars for a 7/8 " bar that will work with my frame width then for $20 (yay being 21 and unemployed lol). and see what i can do with it

[Andy4639]

Originally Posted by C0UCH

These wheels are amazing! Truck looks great Rob! Very impressed.

I like the picture Rob! Very

[68Stepbed]

Originally Posted by C0UCH

These wheels are amazing! Truck looks great Rob! Very impressed.

Hmmm.............a BFGoodrich sticker.....................but with Falken tires mounted.

[robnolimit]

HAHA, Falken in the front, BFG's in the rear. May not have been my best decision. The Falken's are stickier but the balance was off. I was going to run all four Falkens, but we discovered a leak in one at the last minute. I probably should have put all of the BFG's back on, thats what I was used to.

[keepitsimple]

Wow! what a truck man. I am going to go through this thread and try to see what you guys have been talking about in here. This is a subject that I am very interested in. I am coming from racing spec miata's. So, it will be very interesting to see how you guys are setting up these trucks.

[68Stepbed]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

HAHA, Falken in the front, BFG's in the rear. May not have been my best decision. The Falken's are stickier but the balance was off. I was going to run all four Falkens, but we discovered a leak in one at the last minute. I probably should have put all of the BFG's back on, thats what I was used to.

Can you tell alot of differences in different tires? I'm currently running a hard(420TWR) Hankook, but plan to switch to something closer to 300 or so later. What tire do you like best?