Make it handle

[Coupeguy2001]

Hey Rob,
I HAVE BEEN LISTENING. now I am trying to turn faster.
Here's some of the things I heard you talk about, and am working towards the goal.
Just want to ask a couple simple questions,

57 Chevy truck, Kimbridge front frame stub that uses all G body suspension.
I used tubular upper control arms that have 6* of extra caster built in, tall ball joint mod, QA1 coilovers, 550 springs, 1 1/8 front sway bar,

The engine is moved back 2 inches and down 2 inches. Brakes are standard G body discs, with a hydroboost.

rear is from a 72 chevy truck with 3 inch dropped springs, and I made new shackles that are 1 1/2 inch longer and thicker than factory shackles,
and I have your 42 inch long adjustable traction bars in the back.

The tires are 255/50/17, Nittos, and are 11 inches wide, all 4 are the same. 27 inch tall. tread wear 300
I could go 245/45/17 on the front, but without a c notch, the rake would be too much, sticking the rear up too high.
I am limited in rear tire size due to the rear fender inside widths only being 12 inches, and I didn't want to tub the bed.

total drop is 5 1/2 inches in the front, and 4 1/2 inches in the back. If I c notch the frame a couple inches, I can get another inch in the back.

I know I have to move the gas tank, just didn't do it yet

Here's the questions:
with leaf springs and traction bars in the back, what diameter sway bar is needed? would I need a 1 inch rear sway bar? it seems to ride the rails pretty good and would a panhard bar help?

Question number two.
Would it be better to load the traction bars neutral or push the rear away from the transmission a bit?
It seems to stop clutch chatter when they are tensioned. I know the rear doesn't move very much now.
Should it?

As an oh by the way, I have some beefy rancho shocks for the front of the truck when it had the straight axle. would using these on the rear help cornering?
It would probably ride like a truck if I did! Hah! but the mounts are the same, and since it is lowered so much, they probably would fit.
Think of them as individual sway bars LOL
Thanks in advance for your reply

[BigDan3131]

Thanks Rob, maybe on the next one I will spend the big bucks and start with a lighter truck too.

[68c10owner]

Any advice on how to make a 85 GMC C10 ride better? The guy I got it from removed a few leafs out back and chopped the springs. Rides like a old hard tail, but I love this thing. Would like to make it ride smoother, more caddy like if possible without getting to expensive. The plan is to go back with stock rear leafs and a flip kit, new spindles and springs up front for about a 4/6 drop. will most likely be rolling on 15" wheels and a 245/60/15-275/60/15 set up. Thanks in advance

[White Trash]

In my quest to find knowledge on how to make my autocross pickup handle better I happened upon this thread as it was linked to on some random forum. Glad I clicked on it!


I've read all of and re-read a good portion in an effort to absorb all the knowledge and experience given so freely by Rob and everyone else who contributed so far. Thank you so much for doing so. I was planning on going with truck arms from the beginning but oddly enough it was when I started looking into building a gm style torque arm setup that I found this thread.

I've been wanting to build another older truck with my wife and reading this and many other threads here has rekindled my love for 60-72 gm trucks. Looks like the tow rig will handle good enough to run if I break the toyota.

[HellaciousA]

Is there any performance data available on trucks equipped with no limit suspension parts? Skidpad numbers, lateral g's, braking distances, etc? I want my 70 c10 to handle better than my 04 GTO, so I'm trying to figure out what parts are best to accomplish this.

[merlin3]

Rob-i have a 72 c10 lowered 4.5 in the front with drop springs and drop spindles. rear is 7.5 the truck has those skinny drag tires and rims on the front ,all tie rods are new,new power steering kit the truck has a 509 big block the truck drives really sloppy were would you start? i read to install coil overs.thanks

[merlin3]

the truck seems to wander all over the road an a lot of play in the wheel.

[Mtrhd329]

79 c10 5.3l/4l60e with no 3-4 clutches....z06 cam, long tubes.

Caster mod, moog 6454 springs with one coil cut, 1.25" front sway bar, 2.5" frame z, rear axle flip, custom rear shock mounts that stand the shock straight up, and some cheap used non matching tires that dont hold grip.

Ive read a lot and printed most of the thread out and reread and reread on deployments and have applied most of you knowledge and am starting to apply some of Ron Suttons aero to the truck. I have since fixed my camera mount so my big melon ain't in the way. Some guys at the races say if i get the right tires i will be pretty quick.

https://youtu.be/RNl9mQ9L4Ns

[merlin3]

Rob; i have a c10 with a 509 big block lowered 4.5 in the front with drop springs and spindles the rear is lowered 7.5 with drop springs, blocks and a c-notch.the front suspension is mostly new with a new power steering kit.the problem is it rides kinda sloppy it has those skinny drag tires and rims on the front [old drag truck].were would you start on the front end?different tires?

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by HellaciousA

Is there any performance data available on trucks equipped with no limit suspension parts? Skidpad numbers, lateral g's, braking distances, etc? I want my 70 c10 to handle better than my 04 GTO, so I'm trying to figure out what parts are best to accomplish this.

Hmm, well, all of this is heavily dependent on tires, and total vehicle weight. Smitty's C10 pulled a .94g on the pad at Spring Mountain. The HellBoy has managed a 1.03g on a LH/RH average. - but, it is about 400 lbs lighter than Smitty's truck. Many of us have made a 60 - 0 stop in under 120 ft. That may not sound stellar, but go try it.

I want my 70 c10 to handle better than my 04 GTO,
- Look at our Pro-C10 chassis. That's your best bet

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by Mtrhd329

79 c10 5.3l/4l60e with no 3-4 clutches....z06 cam, long tubes.

Caster mod, moog 6454 springs with one coil cut, 1.25" front sway bar, 2.5" frame z, rear axle flip, custom rear shock mounts that stand the shock straight up, and some cheap used non matching tires that dont hold grip.

Ive read a lot and printed most of the thread out and reread and reread on deployments and have applied most of you knowledge and am starting to apply some of Ron Suttons aero to the truck. I have since fixed my camera mount so my big melon ain't in the way. Some guys at the races say if i get the right tires i will be pretty quick.

https://youtu.be/RNl9mQ9L4Ns

Looks like it's a lot of fun. Tires are a huge plus. Also looks like you could use a good seat and harness. It's col that with a few bucks and some work, you've made a HUGE improvement in your truck! Keep at it, and keep your head down.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by merlin3

Rob; i have a c10 with a 509 big block lowered 4.5 in the front with drop springs and spindles the rear is lowered 7.5 with drop springs, blocks and a c-notch.the front suspension is mostly new with a new power steering kit.the problem is it rides kinda sloppy it has those skinny drag tires and rims on the front [old drag truck].were would you start on the front end?different tires?

1) alignment - and as usual, get some caster in it.
2) check the Idler arm, they wear out quick, and if it's loose, she'll wander.
3) a lot of the old 'skinnies' and bias plys, and they wander, New radials.

[Mtrhd329]

Thanks rob. It was this thread that helped a ton. Its fun to see the faces of the guys running "race" cars at the events look at me when i drive up. Harnesses are on the way and i will be building a harness bar for them. That should help keep me in the seat better.

[Bowtiguy]

After getting my project on the road ( 6 months of ball busting) I'm in the fine tuning stage. I settled on a 3" Front 5" rear drop running my 20X8.5" 255's on the front and 20X10" w/ 295s on the rear.

Currently running..

-3/4" lower control arm mod for caster ( hands off wheel at 65mph, garage alignment)
- NLE front /rear swap bars (except I flipped the rear bar to a rear over the tank mounting position)
-NLE power R&P
- NLE Rear Pan hard bar
-NLE rear shock relocation brackets
-POL front shock relocation brackets
- CPP shocks front/rear
-CPP springs ( -1" front with 2" modular spindles; -3" rear w/ 2" blocks)
- all ball joints/bushings/brakes are new

I have to say it handles VERY well and my last ride was a HEAVILY modified C6Z06 that I road raced with NASA.

I'm considering measuring out and putting Ridetech HQ shocks on all four corners. The strong arms and coilovers would be nice, but for $2k I'm most of the way to a twin turbo setup for my LC9/TR6060 combo ;-)

Questions #1: Rob, do you rec the ridetech's to be used with your rear shock relo kit?

Questions #2: Is there a higher quality spring option out there ( Eibach, Hotchkis, etc..) that would...

1) work well with the NLE components

and

2) soften the ride a touch similar to the double coil over springs I had on the vette w/o going coilovers on the front of the truck?

BTW, I've been too focused to do a build thread but I hope to add a "how to" for the installation of the TR6060 trans out of a 14' SS Camaro.

[robnolimit]

Originally Posted by Bowtiguy

After getting my project on the road ( 6 months of ball busting) I'm in the fine tuning stage. I settled on a 3" Front 5" rear drop running my 20X8.5" 255's on the front and 20X10" w/ 295s on the rear.

Currently running..

-3/4" lower control arm mod for caster ( hands off wheel at 65mph, garage alignment)
- NLE front /rear swap bars (except I flipped the rear bar to a rear over the tank mounting position)
-NLE power R&P
- NLE Rear Pan hard bar
-NLE rear shock relocation brackets
-POL front shock relocation brackets
- CPP shocks front/rear
-CPP springs ( -1" front with 2" modular spindles; -3" rear w/ 2" blocks)
- all ball joints/bushings/brakes are new

I have to say it handles VERY well and my last ride was a HEAVILY modified C6Z06 that I road raced with NASA.

I'm considering measuring out and putting Ridetech HQ shocks on all four corners. The strong arms and coilovers would be nice, but for $2k I'm most of the way to a twin turbo setup for my LC9/TR6060 combo ;-)

Questions #1: Rob, do you rec the ridetech's to be used with your rear shock relo kit?

Questions #2: Is there a higher quality spring option out there ( Eibach, Hotchkis, etc..) that would...

1) work well with the NLE components

and

2) soften the ride a touch similar to the double coil over springs I had on the vette w/o going coilovers on the front of the truck?

BTW, I've been too focused to do a build thread but I hope to add a "how to" for the installation of the TR6060 trans out of a 14' SS Camaro.

sounds great. Swapping the sway bar to the back side of the rear axle works fine, but it does put more load on the chassis.

Coil-overs, when fitted into the OE front subframe, tend to be a little shorter than we would like, limiting the total suspension travel available. - These need to be fitted with stiffer spings to limit the travel so that the shocks don't top/bottom out all the time. That combination does not lend itself to a 'smoother' ride. Most 'drop' springs have the same trouble, they are stiffer than the OE, or the same rate. I would try the Jeep coil in the rear, and the spec'd cut truck spring up front. (I know the numbers are in the thread, monster that it is, I'd look them up for you but I am out of the shop today - maybe someone else can help here) From where your at shocks will make all the difference. I'd go Bilstien, RideTech HQ, or Viking DA.
Our shock relocation kit will NOT handle a coil over. But, we are working on a trailing arm/coil-over/C-notch package that will be available in jan/feb '16.

[SierraMtns]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

sounds great. Swapping the sway bar to the back side of the rear axle works fine, but it does put more load on the chassis.

Coil-overs, when fitted into the OE front subframe, tend to be a little shorter than we would like, limiting the total suspension travel available. - These need to be fitted with stiffer spings to limit the travel so that the shocks don't top/bottom out all the time. That combination does not lend itself to a 'smoother' ride. Most 'drop' springs have the same trouble, they are stiffer than the OE, or the same rate. I would try the Jeep coil in the rear, and the spec'd cut truck spring up front. (I know the numbers are in the thread, monster that it is, I'd look them up for you but I am out of the shop today - maybe someone else can help here) From where your at shocks will make all the difference. I'd go Bilstien, RideTech HQ, or Viking DA.
Our shock relocation kit will NOT handle a coil over. But, we are working on a trailing arm/coil-over/C-notch package that will be available in jan/feb '16.

Would love to see some pictures

[Bowtiguy]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

sounds great. Swapping the sway bar to the back side of the rear axle works fine, but it does put more load on the chassis.

Coil-overs, when fitted into the OE front subframe, tend to be a little shorter than we would like, limiting the total suspension travel available. - These need to be fitted with stiffer spings to limit the travel so that the shocks don't top/bottom out all the time. That combination does not lend itself to a 'smoother' ride. Most 'drop' springs have the same trouble, they are stiffer than the OE, or the same rate. I would try the Jeep coil in the rear, and the spec'd cut truck spring up front. (I know the numbers are in the thread, monster that it is, I'd look them up for you but I am out of the shop today - maybe someone else can help here) From where your at shocks will make all the difference. I'd go Bilstien, RideTech HQ, or Viking DA.
Our shock relocation kit will NOT handle a coil over. But, we are working on a trailing arm/coil-over/C-notch package that will be available in jan/feb '16.

Thanks Rob, handling with the NLE gear is making me think about installing my buddy buckets so I can get some 4 point belts in there

This truck will be a canyon carver NOT a race truck.

I don't mind the ride but I'm going to change a couple of things here soon.

1) replace the front -2" spring for a -1" spring ( for a 3/5 total drop)
2) add Ridetech HQ shocks on all four corners
3) dump the factory style rear axle bump stops & install these killer progressive bumpers from Energy suspension

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/9.9109

I'm quickly approaching the need for an entire aftermarket chassis set-up....

[robnolimit]

Hmm, I like those bump stops. Nice.

[He Gone]

This is my frist post . I got some jeep tj rear springs had them tested they tested at 160 lb. Do not know if the man tested them right. If so they are to lite. Good to hear you are doing a coilover set up of trailing arms.

[jlsanborn]

Originally Posted by Bowtiguy

Thanks Rob, handling with the NLE gear is making me think about installing my buddy buckets so I can get some 4 point belts in there

This truck will be a canyon carver NOT a race truck.

I don't mind the ride but I'm going to change a couple of things here soon.

1) replace the front -2" spring for a -1" spring ( for a 3/5 total drop)
2) add Ridetech HQ shocks on all four corners
3) dump the factory style rear axle bump stops & install these killer progressive bumpers from Energy suspension

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/9.9109

I'm quickly approaching the need for an entire aftermarket chassis set-up....

Install pics of the bump stops?

[He Gone]

Has any one tried the Hotchkis swivel bushings in stock trailing arms.

[Bowtiguy]

Springs stats for 1-2" front drop / 3" rear

I did a little research and came up with the following springs stats. Hopefully these can help someone out. For now, I'm sticking with the CPP F/R set-up for now and will be adding the ridetech HQ's as soon as they come in. I'm going to evaluate rear ride once I complete the decking material (wood) bed.

CPP springs rate Length (compressed) Length(open)

Front #FCS6102-1 ( 1" drop) 1075#'s 11" 12.5"

Rear #RCS603-3 (3" drop) 300 #'s 8.6" 10.6"

Eibach springs

Front 3816.520 * (2" drop) 1156 #'s 9.3" 11.25"

Rear 3827.520 (3" drop) 257 #'s 8.5" 11"

* For the record, Eibach does not offer a 1" drop spring, they suggested running a .5" spring isolator with the 2" drop spring. As Rob mentioned before. Spring rates rises as the amount of drop increase.

[Possmguts]

Originally Posted by Bowtiguy

-3/4" lower control arm mod for caster.

Whats that? And where do I go to see it?

[Possmguts]

Just for fun.. for you guys that know what youre talking about..
67 short fleetside with factory A-arms, CPP 2.5" drop spindles and 3" drop springs in front and 5" drop coils in back, no C notch, with a 350ci what sort of stance will this have? Will that combo be too much? Im looking to be around 1 to 2 inches higher in back, but not so low in front it causes problems.

Also I have the No Limit rear adjustable panhard bar and the shock relocation kit. I will be adding their rear sway bar and the 1 1/4" OEM front sway bar.

What shocks would you recommend and what sort of handling should I expect? This is not a track truck but I like to drive.

Thanks
Possum

[Bowtiguy]

Originally Posted by Possmguts

Whats that? And where do I go to see it?

here ya go!

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=my+castor+mod

I did a quick eye ball alignment on the truck in the garage and I can let go of the steering wheel at 65 mph. amazing. The benefits I see from this mod vs. what I was considering (ridetech strong arms/coilovers)

1) Cost $2k for the ridetech gear...ouch!
2) almost centers the wheel in the wheel ell perfectly (within 1/4" I'd say)
3) you get to run a longer spring/shock package by not using coilovers.