Bad transaction with "insanebehavior" : update matter resolved

[shifty]

PPS - Here are the pictures you sent to me. I asked during a phone call for more, and I believe I asked for better quality shots.

I could have never seen anything that I mention wrong above in these photos, and I feel you should have disclosed this information. Cracks in the frame are pretty serious, and that one in yours is plain as day.

Anyone can look at this and say, "damn, that looks pretty badass". But then look at the itemized list above of stuff that I found wrong with it and tell me how badass it sounds then.

[shifty]

I may have a couple more laying around in email, but many were just shots of the same stuff, and none of them showed the front of the frame - the back half was great (except for the spotty weld/patch work on the passenger side where you can see a rusty water line coming down near the notch).

[shifty]

I guess the easiest way I can break this down for you is simple:

Did you ask me to pay you $175 to the cost of work I asked you NOT to do twice?

YES.

Did I ask you to do that work?

NO.

If I asked you not to do the work, and you paid for it to be done, do I *own* any *responsibility* for that money?

NO.

Would you be out money if you would have listened to me when I told you not to do the work?

NO.

Would I still be out money?

YES.

Gas money $325 and trailer hitch $130. But to some degree I would deserve it for not doing my homework, just as YOU deserve to be out some money for not listening to me and not providing the frame we agreed on.

Bottom line - You've got money in pocket and are supposedly out about a hundred bucks - maybe two hundred bucks - for work you should not have had done in the first place. Meanwhile, my expense goes from $455 to $630 that I'm out of pocket total for that trip, not including food because of your mistake?

That's the part I don't get.

[1LoC10]

just a quick question for Insanebehavior... If all was good when Shifty arrived at your house, and he was paying you the money for the frame, would you have told him the price had gone up $175 sense you last talked? just curious

[toomanytoyz]

Originally Posted by Liz

and are richer by $175 now... btw typing in all caps is commonly taken as yelling online.

Liz,

He is just staying true to his character with the Yelling................

Rick

[killer71]

Just Curious....
why was the front notch patched if the buyer specifically asked that the seller leave it as it was?

why was it felt that $175 needed to swap hands?

[shifty]

Well, if you need any more clarification, this is something he emailed to me BEFORE I agreed to the deal, and the reason I can't believe things went down this way:

(his message in blue, mine in black)

Tell you what - You couldn't find a person that would get better use out of
it...if you don't mind ... Let me know what you'd want for the frame with
everything pictured including the stock crossmember, but excluding the
wheels and dropmember. If you want to quote me prices with/without the disc
brakes, that would be great also (so, two quotes, please).

Think about the number and what you want to get out of it - I'll get back to
you within 24 hours and drop you a downpayment if you need it (I'm really
serious about buying).

No deposit. I am sure there would be others willing to take it if you change your mind. I have not even advertised it. I will have to repair the notch I put in the front for the steering. You will have to paint that part when you get the frame home. I will also have the front powder coatedcross member for you. You will need to bolt it back in when you get it home.

As you see, he clearly opted to repair the notch, without my even saying anything about it. He also told me the patch would not be painted! It's pretty obvious that I didn't ask him to do this, and in fact, told him twice on the phone that I didn't want him to patch it (and I believe once via email or PM), because I may actually use it, and if it's properly notched and reinforced it would be OK as it was.

So ... yeah. I paid money for work he chose to do - I didn't tell him to do it. I told him NOT to do it.

To boot - "I am sure others are willing to take it if you change your mind". If so, then why the hell was I prompted to pay $200-300 for the work, then later that price went up to $300-400? Why did I pay $175 out of pocket? I guess other people wouldn't want it now?

I guess I'm the bad guy here, right? The same guy who stole the $175, eh? OK. Sure thing. I pay for work you choose to do. that's fair. I pay $325 for gas and $130 for a trailer hitch to come down and pick up a frame that winds up being half-ass in the front half, and I'm the bad guy who needs to cough up $$$.

I think you should cough up some dollars.

Even Scott was interested in buying the frame before I left, and he was pinging Mark about what he'd want for it, because he was thinking about putting it on his street rod truck...

[krue]

Well I know who I would do business with, and who I wouldn't. I may not agree with Shifty on any political issue but I know he's a stand up guy.

[Bishops Trucks]

The only thing you did wrong Shifty was give that guy $175.00 dollars. I just can't see how he could feel good about himself trying to sell a screwed up frame. He should have paid you for your wasted time and out of pocket expences. Who's the thief here? That's just insane.

[68 short step]

ill tell ya why no pics of the frame with the notch for the steering, because it was done poorly... he wanted to "fix" it so you wouldnt see the quality of it, then inspect the frame closer, cause the poor quality notch....you can do alot to hide poor quality, and shifty "caught" you....he called you down on it, and said he didnt want this frame....then you rob him of 175$ by makeing him feel uncomfortable and pressured......nobodys gonna tear down a truck to the frame, haul it 16hrs, plus give 2G, if he wasnt planing on buying your frame....bottom line is you deceaved and robbed shifty....!!!
also why in your defence you dont even mention the 175$??? thank shifty for your recessed monitor in your willys.....

[Yeller68]

I have dealt with Shifty in the past, and cannot imagine him trying to cheat someone, or be dishonest. Actually he struck me as someone who would go above and beyond to make sure the other party felt good about the deal.

[shifty]

Originally Posted by Yeller68

I have dealt with Shifty in the past, and cannot imagine him trying to cheat someone, or be dishonest. Actually he struck me as someone who would go above and beyond to make sure the other party felt good about the deal.

I did. That's where the $175 came into play. I don't really think it was very voluntary on my part, but I could have just as easily punched the guy in the face and hauled ass. I'm not that kinda guy, though.

[Alvin]

Wow guys, sorry to see something like this. I sincerely hope it can be worked out.

Shifty, I only dealt with you a little bit on that Dell notebook I didn't buy, I got the impression you were a good guy. Now I know it's true.

Hang in there man, never tire of doing the right thing.

[corn]

First off, if someone offers to buy something from you & you dont want to sell it, a simple "no thanks" usually solves the deal. No hurt in asking. I also saw in his first post where it said "Any suggestions?".

Shifty, I would have driven away. I dont know of any law that states if someone says you have to "stay", you cant leave. Im sorry to hear about the deal. I dont like to just automaticly think someone is bad, from one deal (that I didnt have anything to do with) but it seams like there were more than a few strange comments in one deal. Sounds like the perfect time for someone to send you $175.

He has some super cool projects in the works, but it looks to me like he could overcome the money a lot easier than you especially under the circumstances.

(No need for either of you to comment or PM me about this. Ive said all Im going to say right here.)...

[Pop's72]

All you have to do is look at the Computer Q&A section of this board to figure out that Shifty is a stand up guy.

The one thing that sticks out in my mind that indicates what kind of guy Insanebehavior is; He accussed Shifty of taking the money and when he found the money he didn't appolgize he simply left an email that ended with "thought you would want to know"

[centsless]

Awful that this is happening. A friend of mine lives by this motto and it helps me get through situations like this. " If he can live with it, I can live without it" referring to someone that takes something from him. ( money, parts, etc. ) I have to say that it seems awful out of character for Shifty to do what he is being accused of.

[70rs/ss]

I haven't dealt with either, but with the stacks of money (I mean projects, cars, garage, in general more $$$ than he knows what to do with) Why would you insist on getting any amount of $$$ from Shifty? I am not going to take Shifty's side, but just from the thread you started with look at my..... you don't need $200 from any of us. Shifty I pack whenever I go to do a deal with anyone, I don't know these folks, no matter how long they are on an internet forum, I don'y know them and they don't know me, why should we put our safety in danger? You did seek this out, maybe too eagerly, not trying to be an @$$ but I try to temper my desire with 24hrs before I "HAVE TO HAVE" something, by then I can usually see that I'll live without something I thought I had to have just a day before. $hitty deal for both, I hope I never get into one of these deals, money isn't worth it. I have been taken by two folks on this board, both guys were members with long history (join dates going back 3-5 years) One from a guy like insane that had way too $$$ to screw someone, but he has my money and I DO NOT HAVE MY ENDURASHINE RPM AIRGAP INTAKE. So I now have to rethink my original point, just because someone has $$$$ falling out of there orafices, does not mean they won't steal $250 from you (in my case) and $175 from Shifty ("apparently") I say apparantly because NO ONE but Shifty and insane knows exactly what went down, but I have to aggree with the other posters I know who I'd deal with and who I wouldn't. D@mn shame folks have to get screwed, and D@MN shame folks think it's OK to screw people.

[PipsC10]

I was shocked to see there was any negative threads to be found on this forum. I have only been a member for a short time, and I am pupmed to sit at my computer every day and look for new ideas and suggestions for my own project. I do not know Shifty or Insane, but it sucks for both of you to have to try your reputations in the court of public opinion. I will not judge either of you because I have no knowledge of either party. I can only offer suggections. I do know that some peoples appraisal of an items condition can be drastically different than others, and never assume the condition of an item is as described unless you see it first hand.

[Liz]

noone is on trial or such.. this was attempted to be handled privately and did not work out, so it is public.

[shifty]

I'd be totally open to requesting a deletion of this thread and call it a "mutual misunderstanding during a tempered moment" if my money were refunded.

[toomanytoyz]

Originally Posted by shifty

I'd be totally open to requesting a deletion of this thread and call it a "mutual misunderstanding during a tempered moment" if my money were refunded.

I Truly Wish for all involved that this will Happen, Seem's Like a Fair way to End this..........

Rick

[LUV2XCLR8]

WOW, what a mouthful and a huge amount of reading, in the end though wether
right or wrong money should NOT have changed hands. Personally you taking the
money to me says you were the dishonest one in the deal. This is just my $.02

[c10crazy]

I'd say this thread has pretty much run it's course and should probably be closed soon. Both parties have stated their sides to the story out in the open.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by c10crazy

I'd say this thread has pretty much run it's course and should probably be closed soon. Both parties have stated their sides to the story out in the open.

I disagree. This thread should remain available until the $175 is refunded along w/an apology to Shifty about the supposed 'theft' of the money.

[shifty]

He has already refused to apologize to me, and refused to send the money. I'll never delete this thread.

This is the message I got - and to anyone reading this - understand that THIS is what you have to possibly look forward to if you do business with this guy.

havin fun over there shifty with your lies??? i am changin your name to "Twisty" because of the way you twist stories around. Y you are not telling the truth and your really showing who you are by these obsessive crazy posts with numbers, pictures, PM, emails,........your getting played like a fiddle. Unfortuately Perry Mason, what your evidence locker does not show is the truth of the situation. you are lieing and I will not dignify your little web site you got goin. It is nice to know your obsession is about me!! What do you really intend to accomplish? Answer: Nothin my friend. Your words will be long forgotten soon. you really need to grow up. admit it, you got in over your head. you really need to take responsibility. take care.you know what they say, never trust a guy who says he is a stand up guy!!

p.s you are a freak dude!!! now why don't you act like a little girl and tell everyone. enjoy