Blasted Starter!! - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

TugOwar · 05-02-2005, 02:11 AM

I'm sure this has been covered countless times. I'd go searching for the answer but search isn't working until Josh has time to fix it.

Been swapping the motor in my truck, 1968 GMC. Took out the knocking 305 and put in a "freshened up" 350 4 bolt main. Left the tranny out of it because it was slipping any way and I'm hoping to pick up another one soon.

So I set the motor in and install motor mount bolts and headers. It has the balancer and crank pulley on it as well as the flex plate. I set the distributor in but didn't hook the wires to it. No carb, no alternator, no fan, no valve covers, no spark plugs.

I wanted to turn the motor over and get the oil circulated before it was actually fired up. Wired the starter and bolted it on and tried it,,,,nothing.

I checked ground wire and cable ends, all looks good. I attached one of the body grounds to the head, just to be sure everything was grounded good. Still nothing.

By now I'm doubting myself, maybe I didn't wire the starter right. Pulled the starter back off and checked the wiring, it looked like it was wired right. Still nothing.

I have another old starter and solenoid laying around, tried that, still nothing. Went and got a new solenoid and tried it on both starters, still nothing.

I set the starter up and used jumper cables and it will turn over when I use a screw driver to short it.

I'm getting fire in the cab with the switch on but the starter does nothing when I turn the switch to the start position.

By now I'm really doubting myself. I'm no longer sure I have it wired up right.
There are two wires going to the starter besides the hot (red) battery cable. A green, smaller wire and larger wire I'm not sure what color it is.

If anyone can tell me which wire goes to which terminal, or offer other suggestions, I would really appreciate it.

BTW: I've never had any problems with the truck starting before. The switch has always worked perfectly. I dunno, maybe I'm forgetting something obvious.

68C15 · 05-02-2005, 06:42 AM

purple wire goes to the "S" terminal, (from ignition switch)
green wire goes to the "I" terminal, (to coil for full 12 V while cranking)
the green wire is not used if you have ditched the points & went with HEI, (following the proper conversion procedure)
if there is any red wires they have been added by PO & may go to the batt. stud, (you can tell by the size of ring on end of wire)

**VetteVet** · 05-02-2005, 10:30 AM

If the tranny is still out how did you bypass the neutral start switch?

TugOwar · 05-02-2005, 10:37 AM

Thanks man,
I will go out shortly and check if I have the correct wire on the correct terminal.

The truck had HEI when I got it, and both wires were attached to the starter, so apparently the proper conversion procedure has not been followed. I'll go thumb through the faq board and see if I can find the procedure outlined there.

Thanks again.

TugOwar · 05-02-2005, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VetteVet

If the tranny is still out how did you bypass the neutral start switch?

If the neutral start (safety) switch is the two prong plug on the steering column with two purple wires I bypassed it with a jumper wire, but if thats not it then that may be the problem.

TugOwar · 05-02-2005, 11:18 AM

ok if I'm reading it right (http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/hei.htm) then I just to eliminate the green wire, its not needed any more. That would just leave the purple wire to the "S" terminal, is this correct?

**VetteVet** · 05-02-2005, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TugOwar

If the neutral start (safety) switch is the two prong plug on the steering column with two purple wires I bypassed it with a jumper wire, but if thats not it then that may be the problem.

That's the one and it sounds like you have it.There is a wiring diagram in the FAQ also.
Did you consider spinning the oil pump with a pre oiler?
I don't remember if the starter wire has a fusible link or if it is fused.

ryanroo · 05-02-2005, 11:59 AM

as far as i know that is correct.

i don't want to sound like im pointing at the completely obvious, but is the battery connected. i disconnected mine when i was doing some work a few weeks aago, and spent like 10 minutes making sure all the wires were connected at the starter and finally was going to hook up a charger, and low and behold the positive battery cable was still unhooked, boy did i feel smart.
Ryan

**VetteVet** · 05-02-2005, 02:01 PM

Pebbleboy has posted a wiring diagram on this page in Back in Black's thread. It doesn't look like the purple wire is fused from the nss to the starter solenoid.

TugOwar · 05-02-2005, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VetteVet

Pebbleboy has posted a wiring diagram on this page in Back in Black's thread. It doesn't look like the purple wire is fused from the nss to the starter solenoid.

Not sure what that means Vet but I got it working.
Went out and pulled the starter off and checked the terminals, it has "S" & "R" terminals rather than "S" & "I" terminals. Either way I should only need the "S" terminal, so I just taped up the end of the green wire and then folded it backwards and taped it to the harness to keep it out of the way.

While I had the starter off I pulled the wires up and over toward the drivers door so I could hold a test light on it while I hit the switch, yep, got power.

I put a new end on the purple wire and placed it on the "S" terminal with the starter not installed, I used jumper cables to to ground it. Went and hit the switch and...nothing. well wtf? Tried shorting it with a screw driver and it would engage the drive but not spin the armature.

So I put my old solenoid back on the starter and tried it and it worked fine.

Put the starter back on the motor and turned her over. It kicked the oil pressure up about 1/2 way just spinning it like that and I got some oil to the rockers on both sides.

Have to work tonight and tomorrow night so it'll prolly be Wednesday before I get to work on it again. Then I'll finish putting the motor together and try to start it up. HEADS UP, my next question will prolly be about valve adjustment!

Thanks for the help and y'all cross ya fingers for me. If this motor proves no good I'll prolly end up selling the truck and buying some cheap, used up 4 banger to get to work with.

TugOwar · 05-02-2005, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanroo

as far as i know that is correct.

i don't want to sound like im pointing at the completely obvious, but is the battery connected. i disconnected mine when i was doing some work a few weeks aago, and spent like 10 minutes making sure all the wires were connected at the starter and finally was going to hook up a charger, and low and behold the positive battery cable was still unhooked, boy did i feel smart.
Ryan

Yeah that sounds just like something I'd pull Ryan. Actually did catch myself trying it a couple times only to realize it might work if I had the freekin battery hooked up!

But that didn't prove to be the overall problem.

I think the problem started with me wiring the starter wrong, then not grounding it well enough, then either the new solenoid was bad when I bought it OR I burned it up by screwing around, not sure.

**VetteVet** · 05-02-2005, 08:35 PM

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php3?t=153839

This is the thread I was referring to and thanks to pebbleboy. The search feature is down so we can't use it yet.
Glad you got it working.

05-02-2005, 02:11 AM	#1
TugOwar Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Pleasanton, TX Posts: 1,723	Blasted Starter!! I'm sure this has been covered countless times. I'd go searching for the answer but search isn't working until Josh has time to fix it. Been swapping the motor in my truck, 1968 GMC. Took out the knocking 305 and put in a "freshened up" 350 4 bolt main. Left the tranny out of it because it was slipping any way and I'm hoping to pick up another one soon. So I set the motor in and install motor mount bolts and headers. It has the balancer and crank pulley on it as well as the flex plate. I set the distributor in but didn't hook the wires to it. No carb, no alternator, no fan, no valve covers, no spark plugs. I wanted to turn the motor over and get the oil circulated before it was actually fired up. Wired the starter and bolted it on and tried it,,,,nothing. I checked ground wire and cable ends, all looks good. I attached one of the body grounds to the head, just to be sure everything was grounded good. Still nothing. By now I'm doubting myself, maybe I didn't wire the starter right. Pulled the starter back off and checked the wiring, it looked like it was wired right. Still nothing. I have another old starter and solenoid laying around, tried that, still nothing. Went and got a new solenoid and tried it on both starters, still nothing. I set the starter up and used jumper cables and it will turn over when I use a screw driver to short it. I'm getting fire in the cab with the switch on but the starter does nothing when I turn the switch to the start position. By now I'm really doubting myself. I'm no longer sure I have it wired up right. There are two wires going to the starter besides the hot (red) battery cable. A green, smaller wire and larger wire I'm not sure what color it is. If anyone can tell me which wire goes to which terminal, or offer other suggestions, I would really appreciate it. BTW: I've never had any problems with the truck starting before. The switch has always worked perfectly. I dunno, maybe I'm forgetting something obvious.

05-02-2005, 06:42 AM	#2
68C15 blood type; Retumbo Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: next to my reloading bench Posts: 10,269	purple wire goes to the "S" terminal, (from ignition switch) green wire goes to the "I" terminal, (to coil for full 12 V while cranking) the green wire is not used if you have ditched the points & went with HEI, (following the proper conversion procedure) if there is any red wires they have been added by PO & may go to the batt. stud, (you can tell by the size of ring on end of wire) __________________ Man rule #77...if you own a 67 stepside with a caddy 472 you will never be in danger of loosing you man card

05-02-2005, 10:30 AM	#3
VetteVet Msgt USAF Ret Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 8,719	No start If the tranny is still out how did you bypass the neutral start switch? __________________ VetteVet metallic green 67 stepside 74 corvette convertible 1965 Harley sportster 1995 Harley wide glide Growing old is hell, but it beats the alternative.

05-02-2005, 11:59 AM	#8
ryanroo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: sw colorado Posts: 2,720	as far as i know that is correct. i don't want to sound like im pointing at the completely obvious, but is the battery connected. i disconnected mine when i was doing some work a few weeks aago, and spent like 10 minutes making sure all the wires were connected at the starter and finally was going to hook up a charger, and low and behold the positive battery cable was still unhooked, boy did i feel smart. Ryan __________________ 72 K20 12v build 72 K20 "parts truck" A place for your diesel swap questions

05-02-2005, 02:01 PM	#9
VetteVet Msgt USAF Ret Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 8,719	Pebbleboy has posted a wiring diagram on this page in Back in Black's thread. It doesn't look like the purple wire is fused from the nss to the starter solenoid. __________________ VetteVet metallic green 67 stepside 74 corvette convertible 1965 Harley sportster 1995 Harley wide glide Growing old is hell, but it beats the alternative. Last edited by VetteVet; 05-02-2005 at 02:03 PM.

05-02-2005, 10:37 AM	#4
TugOwar Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Pleasanton, TX Posts: 1,723	Thanks man, I will go out shortly and check if I have the correct wire on the correct terminal. The truck had HEI when I got it, and both wires were attached to the starter, so apparently the proper conversion procedure has not been followed. I'll go thumb through the faq board and see if I can find the procedure outlined there. Thanks again.

05-02-2005, 11:18 AM	#6
TugOwar Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Pleasanton, TX Posts: 1,723	ok if I'm reading it right (http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/hei.htm) then I just to eliminate the green wire, its not needed any more. That would just leave the purple wire to the "S" terminal, is this correct?

05-02-2005, 08:35 PM	#12
VetteVet Msgt USAF Ret Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 8,719	wiring diagram http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s....php3?t=153839 This is the thread I was referring to and thanks to pebbleboy. The search feature is down so we can't use it yet. Glad you got it working. __________________ VetteVet metallic green 67 stepside 74 corvette convertible 1965 Harley sportster 1995 Harley wide glide Growing old is hell, but it beats the alternative.



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