Engine Placement Help

[pgf545]

I am helping my dad with his 52. We are in the process of installing a Heidts coil spring front end and new motor mounts etc and I need a little help. I am wondering if there is any magic formula for motor placement on these old trucks? My idea is to set the cab back on the frame and place the motor as close as possible to the firewall leaving enough room for the distributer and valve covers, and also making sure the oil pan clears the crossmember. Does that sound right? Has anyone installed one of the Heidts front ends? I am a little confused about the crossmember angle. The instructions say to set the truck at the approx ride height. Well we are starting from scratch and all I have is the frame to work with. Dad wanted the thing approx level and the guy at Heidts wasn't much help, he said that if we wanted any rake the set the frame at the angle when we welded in the crossmember. Right now I have the thing tacked in with the frame level front to back and side to side. I don't want to finish weld it together and then find out that I have made a mistake in my calculations. We are also redoing the rear end with a 9" ford so I might be able to make some adjustments there. Thanks for the help.

Bernie

[dwcsr]

Bernie
Heidts was kinda right. It’s kind of the chicken or the egg thing. You need to set it at ride height but you only have a frame so you don't know exactly where that number is. I personally think the 52's look better being a little up in the rear 2" or so.

You’re on the right track with putting on the cab and starting from there. get your cab on and situated and your bed on and situated, roll some tires under it and look at it. You will know then whether to go up or down or rake it or level it. You want to get the cross member in and not have to try to adjust it from the rear end. You just end up with all the wheels looking like they are in the wrong place.

Once you get your stance then you look at welding in the cross member and doing motor mounts and where they go. The engine has to have a specific angle when installed or you have a different bunch of problems.

Do you have the cab and bed?

[AesC10s]

Originally Posted by dwcsr

Bernie
You need to set it at ride height

This is a MUST!!!! i was building a custum 4-link for my 65 truck and i didnt set it at ride hight and it ended up being about 1 inch off. Man was i pissed at myself for makin such a dumb mistake, but i was my first time doin this so i learned from my mistake. i ended up shortening my 4 link bars and now all is good cuz i set it at ride hight when i did it this time.

Aaron

[pgf545]

Thanks guys, I need to make some changes while I still have a chance to fix them. Yes we still have all the body parts. What happened is he bought this truck about 25 years ago and someone wanted the running gear out of it. Well the guy offered him more for the gear than what he bought the truck for. This thing has set for a long time because we boat raced during the summer and never had time to mess with it. We finally quit racing and now it is on to the truck and my 69 Camaro project.

I know that I will need to set the pinion angle and make sure the u-joints have some angle in them, but am I on the right track with the placement?

Thanks for the help
Bernie

[mbgmike]

Yeah If you need anybody to hold the dumb end of the tape measure I can come and help. We are just down the road

[pgf545]

Ok come on down I could use the help.

[dwcsr]

Always set your engine in and at the right degree prior to doing pinion angles. Mearly setting a pinion at 2 -3 degrees wil cause more trouble that you can imagine. But still most everyone I talk to does that and wonders why the have a vibration.

The is the best site I know of on driveline angles and how to set it up.

http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_...aft_Angles.htm

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by mbgmike

Yeah If you need anybody to hold the dumb end of the tape measure I can come and help. We are just down the road

I can give you a hand as well if needed.

[pgf545]

Thanks for the offer. I might be giving you guys a call. dwcsr where in Houston are you? I don't want to put anyone out but if you have done this before I might be leaning on you for advice. .

Bernie

[dwcsr]

I'm in katy, I don't mind coming down on a saturday or sunday to lend a hand..

this is my IFS. Nothing like an MII. I have changed it and installed a rack from a TBird
http://www.webrodder.com/article.php?AID=264&SID=60

go here an read up on how to install an MII, and what not to do.

http://www.webrodder.com/article.php?AID=222&SID=16
http://www.webrodder.com/article.php?AID=261&SID=60

while these are 62 - 72 GM the method is the same
http://www.webrodder.com/article.php?AID=291&SID=16
http://www.webrodder.com/article.php?AID=293&SID=16

this is ford car and truck but again same idea
http://www.webrodder.com/article.php?AID=224&SID=3
http://www.webrodder.com/article.php?AID=225&SID=3

[pgf545]

Thanks for the articles. I am going to go down there tomorrow for a little while and mock up the cab and fenders. It looks like my best bet is to step back a couple of steps and double check some stuff. I will let you know if I need you to come down. I just hate to put someone out of a weekend and having to travel that far. Thanks for the help to you and Mike. I will keep you guys informed on my progress.

Bernie

[pgf545]

Not much happened on the 52 this weekend, I did round up all the body panels out of the attic....man it was hot up there. We pulled the motor out of the crew cab...we are going to use that motor in the 52. I also fixed some of the welds on the boxing plates that I wasn't happy with. After hanging outside pulling the motor I had just about had enough....plus by then the beer had started flowing and I was about ready to head home .

I did hit a car show on Sat night and found a really cool 54 GMC that had a lot of parts on it that we are using on this truck. I also meet a guy that builds cars and sells them and he only lives a few blocks from me and I didn't even know it. He has done several of Heidt's stuff and gave me a couple of things to look for. I am having a hard time trying to explain to dad the importants of setting the ride height before we start welding. He kept trying to say "what are you going to do again?" I think I finally got through to him and will make it down there this weekend and mock the thing up even if I have to do it myself just to prove to him what I am doing.....geeezs dad. We might be close enough now, but I just want to make sure. Thanks for the help and I will try and keep you guys informed, because I know I am going to have more questions.

Bernie

P.S. I will try and take some pictures and post them

[nitrofn]

make sure you have the tires that you are going to run. I got a rack front end on my 69 sb. I would not buy a bolt from Hidts . I got my front end from Weimmer. Bunch of nice people.

[solidaxel]

Bernie,
I have been following your build and I have some questions.
I am starting a new project a 53 Chevy P/u and I am at the bare frame stage. the question I have is the Heidts crossmember, do you have a choice on ride heights? From the looks of it(crossmember) it just welds to the bottom of the frame and the hats weld to the top of the frame, how can you change ride height? What am I not seeing. I asked the guy from heidts what the axle center was from the bottom of the frame and he said about 1 1/2". Now that yours is finished can you take a measurment for me, also when you have the front wheels off take a measurement from wheel mounting to wheel mounting. The measurment I have is 58 1/2" stock on the 53, is the Heidts the same, would wider be better??
I am also looking at the Dakota suspension from Industrial Chassis for the project. Just trying to make the right decisioin, I am not going to build another one. What did you do with your motor mounts how far did you set the engine back, if you take a measurement from the axle C/L to the first spark plug that would help.

Thanks for your help.
Bob


I did hit a car show on Sat night and found a really cool 54 GMC that had a lot of parts on it that we are using on this truck. I also meet a guy that builds cars and sells them and he only lives a few blocks from me and I didn't even know it. He has done several of Heidt's stuff and gave me a couple of things to look for. I am having a hard time trying to explain to dad the importants of setting the ride height before we start welding. He kept trying to say "what are you going to do again?" I think I finally got through to him and will make it down there this weekend and mock the thing up even if I have to do it myself just to prove to him what I am doing.....geeezs dad. We might be close enough now, but I just want to make sure. Thanks for the help and I will try and keep you guys informed, because I know I am going to have more questions.

Bernie

P.S. I will try and take some pictures and post them[/QUOTE]

[pgf545]

Bob, There is no way to adjust the ride height once it is installed. My dad wanted the thing to be approx level with the rear end installed, so we used it as is. I would guess you could cut down the area where is welds to the frame and put some blocks under the hats if you wanted to lower the frame some. I will try and get you some measurements this weekend. It is at my dad's house and I don't get there but on the weekends. The A-Arms are supposed to be level when everything is installed so I can measure from the frame to the lower a-arm mount if that will work. I have pulled out the motor so I could do some work on the cab. I still have to move the motor a couple of inches and I won't get to that for a while, so I won't be of any help to ya there...lol. Let me know if that will work.

Bernie

[solidaxel]

Hey, thanks for the reply. As I thought the crossmember would have to be modified to lower it, but in its stock deminsions it would be as Heidts mentioned. To raise or lower it would require some welding mods to hats and crossmember.
If you think of it take some measurments, don't go out of your way, this is not a rush project!!!

[pgf545]

Originally Posted by solidaxel

this is not a rush project!!!

LOL...ours is not also....I only work on it on weekends and I am trying to get my Camaro worked on also so the truck doesn't get much done on it on a regular basis. My dad plays a little during the week when he feels like messing around. We were actually at a slow down point with the truck because of needing parts, but they should be in later this week.


Bernie

[bondobob]

I installed a FatMan front end that is basically the same as a Heidts, the cross member is directly under the frame. On my 57 with the dropped spindles the axle center line is about 1 1/2" down from the top of the frame. With a 26" front tire the crossmember will have 5" clearance at ride height. I cut "tires" out of 3/4" plywood to mock up my ride height. By mounting them to 2"x4" s they would stay in position on the floor. If you notch the frame to raise the crossmember then the "A" arms will hit the bottom of the frame. Zeeing the frame is better.

[bondobob]

Forgot to add picture.