Overload spring removal question

[68Timber]

I have the new wheels and tires on... It aint looking too good, it's going to have to come down more than 2/2. I was looking at the new rear springs, there's a spacer in there from God knows where. If I take the spacer and overload spring out I'll get another 2.25 inches. I'm worried about wheel hop if I do take the overload spring out. Has anyone removed it and ran a stout engine?

This is a pretty critical turning point, I want the stance right and I plan to put a fairly hot small block in - around 400 hp, give or take 20. It's gotta hook...

It looks like it needs a 4/3 drop to get it where I want it.

Thanks.

[68Timber]

I've planned a sway bar for the rear. I'm wondering also if that might add enough rigidity to prevent axle-wrap. I won't add traction bars so I'm at a loss here. I'm thinking the sway bar won't really help. Any advice is appreciated.

[tobiahr]

what kind of traction bars were you unwilling to install? I only ask because lately I seen ladder bars refered to as traction bars in advertisements. I'm still used to traction bars being the old school leaf spring "slapper" bars that mounted to the bottom of the leaf springs. the sway bar doesn't usually help with axle wrap

[68Timber]

Originally Posted by tobiahr

what kind of traction bars were you unwilling to install? I only ask because lately I seen ladder bars refered to as traction bars in advertisements. I'm still used to traction bars being the old school leaf spring "slapper" bars that mounted to the bottom of the leaf springs. the sway bar doesn't usually help with axle wrap

True, the sway bar shouldn't help with axle-wrap any. During axle wrap the springs turn "S" shape quickly back and forth until you back out or break something. So my only thread of hope on the sway bar was that it might offer just a little more rigidity and help.

If you step back and think out of the box a second, Chevelle's, Camaro's, and Nova's did not have overload springs. But I don't know what the spring rating was on those cars... But shouldn't they have been much more flexible if for nothing else than because they were on a car and not a truck? Well, yeah, that should be correct but that doesn't take into account the dynamics of vehicle weight the springs were designed for.

I hate to over-complicate this but this is not a dollar-be-damned project. I'd like to get this truck like I want it on budget.

But to be specific to your question - leaf springs only on the truck. No slapper bars or ladder bars.

[tobiahr]

all of the rear ends i've seen on novas and camaros had braces above the axle just to either side of the differential to prevent axle wrap if they wern't using slapper or ladder bars on high horsepower motors
http://www.ss383nova.dreamstation.co...s/MVC-696S.JPG
ok link doesn't work

[68Timber]

Originally Posted by tobiahr

all of the rear ends i've seen on novas and camaros had braces above the axle just to either side of the differential to prevent axle wrap if they wern't using slapper or ladder bars on high horsepower motors
http://www.ss383nova.dreamstation.co...s/MVC-696S.JPG
ok link doesn't work

I think we're on the same wave length. What do you think? 400 or so horses on a pack of thinner leaf springs?

[68Timber]

The springs are 5+1, rated 1875 lbs per side.

[tobiahr]

i don't think you're going to have a severe problem with axle wrap at 400 hp and an automatic transmission. anything greater than that or a standard and you may start seeing traction issues. Did you go with wider tires? if I remember correctly you weren't much wider than stock in the last pictures (I may be wrong)and if so the tire will break traction before severe axle wrap occurs in most cases. If you are going for low budget you'll have to go with slapper type traction bars. If you want a sleeper or stock look you should go with an axle like the one in the picture. The two tabs beside the differential go to locating bars that attach to the body or frame but I cant remember which one right now.

I believe going with a lower rate spring will make the axle wrap worse. I believe the car leaf springs were shorter and actually had a forward bias on the spring pack (see pics stolen from bbay listing) that helped, along with being shorter, to prevent wrap.

[tobiahr]

I have done alot of research on the traction control with a friend. He wanted a factory appearing lowered rear but he was running a 500 hp engine. He went with a Nova rear end with the locating tabs and had to fabricate a crossmember to attach the arms to.
If you remove the overload spring it will make the problem worse. I'm not sure what the spacer you're refering to looks like or what its function is so I cant comment on it.
The other option he had looked at was getting a custom set of springs with the correct weight rating but a lowered height and stacked with a forward bias. This would have been more expensive than the axle and fab work he did. It was about 350$ a piece in 95 when we did it.

[68Timber]

I forgot about the way muscle car springs were stacked, I've seen that before. Here's what I was thinking about the sway bar and how it may help. When wrap begins, the front of the spring goes up - is it possible the axle centerline is closer to the front eye bolt on the spring at this point? Also, when axle wrap begins, the pinion moves up and the carrier tilts back. A sway bar could help reduce this movement but will be limited by its mounting bushing. I know, if it was a good solution it'd be common knowledge. But the sway bars are going on front and rear anyway so it'll help or it won't.

Well, the engine is next years project. I'm going to get the stance where I want it and right now the easiest way to get that little extra I need is to remove the overload spring. If I end up with wheel-hop I'll address it then. I appreciate your help. On tires I did go to 275's. Hopefully they'll break loose quick.