700r4 without floor shift - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

maxreps · 03-08-2009, 08:38 PM

Thinking of putting a 700r4 in my '76 but don't want to use a floor shifter. I want to still use the column shifter, has anyone done this? I know the pawl would need to be switched but is that just a simple swap or not? What else would need to be done besides the 4 position pawl on the column?

thanks

JohnC · 03-08-2009, 08:48 PM

Could you use a column out of a 83? Didn't they have the 700R4, and not have the wipers on the column?

gchemist · 03-08-2009, 08:57 PM

82-83 trucks have 700R4s. No wiper control on the column. Upgrade to a stall converter. With a stall converter, you can ditch the lockup option. The stall RPM will the torque converter. You will have to move the tranny crossmember back about 1". Good reading: http://transmissioncenter.net/700R4_Swap_Info.htm

pokethesmot · 03-08-2009, 09:31 PM

well im purity sure my transmission is a 700r4 and it column shifts

f.monroe · 03-08-2009, 09:49 PM

I think that the column travel is the same so you should be able to use the column you have , just change the indicator to one that shows all gears . The detents are in the trans . Other than moving the crossmember and having the driveshaft length changed , it should bolt in . If you use the stock converter , invest in a good lockup converter retrofit kit so you dont burn the trans up .
Frank

maxreps · 03-09-2009, 06:15 AM

Thanks for the info guys.. supposedly it has a 2800 stall converter. I'm not quite clear on how a non-stock stall converter would eliminate the need for lockup wiring in the pan though.

I gotta find a way to figure out what stall my converter is, not sure if there's a way to do it other than looking at it. Like how you can tell what rear end gears you have by using tire diameter, rotation, etc. I've looked at it from underneath but didn't see a part # on it's housing.

gchemist · 03-09-2009, 11:51 AM

Raise the rear tires. Put the tranny in neutral. Turn both wheels at the same, in the same direction at the same rate. Count the number of revolutions the drive shaft makes. Mark it with chalk or tape. The number of revolutions is your gear ratio.
Do you have a tach?

I run a 2500 stall on my truck. Under normal driving it locks @45 MPH or ~1800-2000 RPMs. When I start to put my foot in it, the lock RPM goes up. At WOT, it locks up at ~2500 RPMs. I don't use the electrical lockup. I removed all the wiring and sensors. The torque converter locks in at the manufactured RPMs based on torque, tranny and gear ratio.
The electrical wiring in later model trucks 84+ locked the tranny in fourth gear. In 82-84 and other trucks, the tranny would lock in 3rd gear. Mine locks in 3rd gear. It's great for city driving at 45 MPH or close to it.

maxreps · 03-09-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gchemist

Raise the rear tires. Put the tranny in neutral. Turn both wheels at the same, in the same direction at the same rate. Count the number of revolutions the drive shaft makes. Mark it with chalk or tape. The number of revolutions is your gear ratio.
Do you have a tach?

I run a 2500 stall on my truck. Under normal driving it locks @45 MPH or ~1800-2000 RPMs. When I start to put my foot in it, the lock RPM goes up. At WOT, it locks up at ~2500 RPMs. I don't use the electrical lockup. I removed all the wiring and sensors. The torque converter locks in at the manufactured RPMs based on torque, tranny and gear ratio.
The electrical wiring in later model trucks 84+ locked the tranny in fourth gear. In 82-84 and other trucks, the tranny would lock in 3rd gear. Mine locks in 3rd gear. It's great for city driving at 45 MPH or close to it.

I meant a way to find out the stall rpm if you didn't buy/install one(to verify what you have). Kinda like you can do a "test" to determine rear gear ratio...

I know that my tranny is a th350, I have 4.10 gears and 29" tires but I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to find out if my converter is a 2800 stall speed like the PO told me. I do have a tach...

Pyrotechnic · 03-09-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxreps

I meant a way to find out the stall rpm if you didn't buy/install one(to verify what you have). Kinda like you can do a "test" to determine rear gear ratio...

I know that my tranny is a th350, I have 4.10 gears and 29" tires but I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to find out if my converter is a 2800 stall speed like the PO told me. I do have a tach...

Put the truck in gear and place your foot firmly on the brake and see how high you can get the RPM's to climb before the tires start spinning or your motor dies. Also, if you are just cruising along at a low RPM and quickly give it some throttle, the RPM's will jump or "flash" up instantly to a much higher RPM, usually higher than the stall speed, though not to be confused with the transmission downshifting to a lower gear. Don't press the throttle so much that the transmission downshifts if you want to observe this behavior.

maxreps · 03-09-2009, 03:15 PM

Dang, didn't think about the tirespin thing.. that sound plausible! I'll try those this evening, thanks.

Gchemist, how would a higher stall converter eliminate the need for lockup wiring on the 700r4?

gchemist · 03-09-2009, 07:28 PM

Any stall converter can do away with lockup wiring. The trick is to find the right converter for your drive line. I can tell you a 2800 stall is really high for a street vehicle. My 2500 is a little high but I can live with it. Only because my tires are undersized. Larger tires and better gear would be great.
A stall does the same thing as lockup wiring. Both couple the engine and transmission into a direct drive. Lockup wiring does based on vacuum. Stall does it based on engine RPMs. A stock motor would do great with a 1800 stall. My old 305 loved a 1800 stall. A key issue on a 700R4 is cruise RPM. You want to keep the stall below cruise RPM. If you don't the stall may not lockup.
Read this info: http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Tech..._explained.asp

piecesparts · 03-09-2009, 09:18 PM

Change out the indicator and connect it up to the 700 tranny. I did my 84 truck with a change from a TH350C tranny to an OD 700 R4, it worked great until I got tired of the shift on the column.

maxreps · 03-09-2009, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piecesparts

Change out the indicator and connect it up to the 700 tranny. I did my 84 truck with a change from a TH350C tranny to an OD 700 R4, it worked great until I got tired of the shift on the column.

Did you have manual shift valve body in it? Or did you just get tired of the column shifter?

piecesparts · 03-09-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxreps

Did you have manual shift valve body in it? Or did you just get tired of the column shifter?

I just got tired of the column shifter and the fact that there was NO reverse Lockout on it. If you are shifting manually, then there is a great chance that you will hit the reverse in the process of going from a lower gear to a higher gear. The install of a floor shifter eliminated that problem and I really like the shifter down low.
I don't manually shift a lot, but when I do, Idon't want to tear up the rest of the truck at 80+ MPH on the strip.

The shifter will work with a standard column unit, as long as you line up the park position in the tranny with the park position on the column and the indicator is adjustable for the pointer.

03-08-2009, 08:38 PM	#1
maxreps Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: greensboro, nc Posts: 174	700r4 without floor shift Thinking of putting a 700r4 in my '76 but don't want to use a floor shifter. I want to still use the column shifter, has anyone done this? I know the pawl would need to be switched but is that just a simple swap or not? What else would need to be done besides the 4 position pawl on the column? thanks

03-08-2009, 08:48 PM	#2
JohnC Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 7,461	Re: 700r4 without floor shift Could you use a column out of a 83? Didn't they have the 700R4, and not have the wipers on the column?

03-08-2009, 08:57 PM	#3
gchemist BAD BOW-Silverado XST Join Date: May 2000 Location: Senior Member from Austin, TX Posts: 6,431	Re: 700r4 without floor shift 82-83 trucks have 700R4s. No wiper control on the column. Upgrade to a stall converter. With a stall converter, you can ditch the lockup option. The stall RPM will the torque converter. You will have to move the tranny crossmember back about 1". Good reading: http://transmissioncenter.net/700R4_Swap_Info.htm __________________ Gerardo a.k.a. Mad Chemist Silverado XST videos

03-08-2009, 09:31 PM	#4
pokethesmot profeshinaly unimployed Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: hazlehurst, GA Posts: 1,232	Re: 700r4 without floor shift well im purity sure my transmission is a 700r4 and it column shifts __________________ my ride click here my myspace "having mud flaps is like asking for a smaller trophy"

03-08-2009, 09:49 PM	#5
f.monroe Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Caldwell,Tx. Posts: 3,648	Re: 700r4 without floor shift I think that the column travel is the same so you should be able to use the column you have , just change the indicator to one that shows all gears . The detents are in the trans . Other than moving the crossmember and having the driveshaft length changed , it should bolt in . If you use the stock converter , invest in a good lockup converter retrofit kit so you dont burn the trans up . Frank __________________ Born and proudly residing in a Red State !

03-09-2009, 06:15 AM	#6
maxreps Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: greensboro, nc Posts: 174	Re: 700r4 without floor shift Thanks for the info guys.. supposedly it has a 2800 stall converter. I'm not quite clear on how a non-stock stall converter would eliminate the need for lockup wiring in the pan though. I gotta find a way to figure out what stall my converter is, not sure if there's a way to do it other than looking at it. Like how you can tell what rear end gears you have by using tire diameter, rotation, etc. I've looked at it from underneath but didn't see a part # on it's housing.

03-09-2009, 11:51 AM	#7
gchemist BAD BOW-Silverado XST Join Date: May 2000 Location: Senior Member from Austin, TX Posts: 6,431	Re: 700r4 without floor shift Raise the rear tires. Put the tranny in neutral. Turn both wheels at the same, in the same direction at the same rate. Count the number of revolutions the drive shaft makes. Mark it with chalk or tape. The number of revolutions is your gear ratio. Do you have a tach? I run a 2500 stall on my truck. Under normal driving it locks @45 MPH or ~1800-2000 RPMs. When I start to put my foot in it, the lock RPM goes up. At WOT, it locks up at ~2500 RPMs. I don't use the electrical lockup. I removed all the wiring and sensors. The torque converter locks in at the manufactured RPMs based on torque, tranny and gear ratio. The electrical wiring in later model trucks 84+ locked the tranny in fourth gear. In 82-84 and other trucks, the tranny would lock in 3rd gear. Mine locks in 3rd gear. It's great for city driving at 45 MPH or close to it. __________________ Gerardo a.k.a. Mad Chemist Silverado XST videos Last edited by gchemist; 03-09-2009 at 11:52 AM.

03-09-2009, 03:15 PM	#10
maxreps Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: greensboro, nc Posts: 174	Re: 700r4 without floor shift Dang, didn't think about the tirespin thing.. that sound plausible! I'll try those this evening, thanks. Gchemist, how would a higher stall converter eliminate the need for lockup wiring on the 700r4?

03-09-2009, 07:28 PM	#11
gchemist BAD BOW-Silverado XST Join Date: May 2000 Location: Senior Member from Austin, TX Posts: 6,431	Re: 700r4 without floor shift Any stall converter can do away with lockup wiring. The trick is to find the right converter for your drive line. I can tell you a 2800 stall is really high for a street vehicle. My 2500 is a little high but I can live with it. Only because my tires are undersized. Larger tires and better gear would be great. A stall does the same thing as lockup wiring. Both couple the engine and transmission into a direct drive. Lockup wiring does based on vacuum. Stall does it based on engine RPMs. A stock motor would do great with a 1800 stall. My old 305 loved a 1800 stall. A key issue on a 700R4 is cruise RPM. You want to keep the stall below cruise RPM. If you don't the stall may not lockup. Read this info: http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Tech..._explained.asp __________________ Gerardo a.k.a. Mad Chemist Silverado XST videos

03-09-2009, 09:18 PM	#12
piecesparts Parts and more parts Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lebo, Kansas (middle of nowhere Posts: 6,821	Re: 700r4 without floor shift Change out the indicator and connect it up to the 700 tranny. I did my 84 truck with a change from a TH350C tranny to an OD 700 R4, it worked great until I got tired of the shift on the column.



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