Truck autocross at goodguys

[rookierodbuilder]

Check this out. I was reading news on bangshift.com that goodguys is opening up a class in the autocross for trucks. Anyone got a truck that is pretty swift in the twisties?

http://www.bangshift.com/blog/New-Tr...Autocross.html

[tymbom]

Not yet....

[BossHogg69]

I'm working on one as we speak....

[rookierodbuilder]

Cool, I always though it would be cool to build one. Money and time are not on my side as of right now, so my project is going a different direction, It would be neat to see how the big behemoths fair on the track though.

[383Ram]

so what do you think the list of mods would be to build one?

would a big block be out of the question strictly based on the weight?

[69trk]

i don't know about getting on that sight without explaning to my wife what it is first

[turbo350]

These guys have been doing something similar for several years now:

http://www.thedieselpage.com/readers/grenwood.htm

[rookierodbuilder]

Yeah, i got that a lot when i first started going there 69trk, b
ut they do have a lot of cool stuff posted on a weekly basis.

[BossHogg69]

Originally Posted by 383Ram

so what do you think the list of mods would be to build one?

would a big block be out of the question strictly based on the weight?

I sure hope not, because I'm building an aluminum headed 468 right now for my '69 - I'd hate to think I just wasted nearly 6k on a motor! I'm not building a strictly 'autocross' truck, but I am building a serious Pro Touring truck that will back up the look 100%. Tubular CPP a-arms, boxed rear trailing arms, 4/6 drop, f/r sway bars, 4 wheel discs, all Poly bushings, 550hp and a Tremec TKO-500 trans should be a decent start (I hope!!) I plan on bracing up the frame too, but I've got some research to do before I tackle that job. I'm just ready to get all this stuff off my garage floor and onto the truck!

[383Ram]

Yea but i am running a lowly iron head big block, LOL.

And you have it FAR easier than me buying chassis parts for my Dodge. I thought about building jigs to make my own tubular arms. And i agree, while that above pic'd stepside is cool, its to far from what i am willing to do--doesn't seem attainable to the average guy. So what would you do to something fairly stock to still obtain a good ride and have decent handling to stick it in a corner comfortably?

I have these ideas right now

Obviously a drop would be in order---but again, not a crazy drop. I am thinking no more than 4" drop here in the front and whatever it takes to level the rear.

Wheels and tires are probably the next choice. Obviously the sky is the limit, but lets assume were cheap (i know i am), and stick to a 15" wheel---16-17" max if your feeling extra spendy. I think the old standby 15x8 all around would work decent for cheap. And 275/60r15 for a tire.

Obviously a full rebush of the suspension is also in order--preferably urathane.

As far as sway bars, if your like me and have a big block, your already at a disadvantage so a big bar in the front would be required. As far as the back---might not even need one as it may induce more oversteer.

Any other thoughts or ideas? I have some other thoughts, but wanted to hear some ideas here. So what say you?

[tymbom]

I'm planning a similar build with my'79 C-10. Nascar style all the way. 15" black steelies, not too low. I'm looking into adapting lots of generic circle track parts for A-arms, ball joints, screw jacks and stuff. I've found cross drilled and slotted rotors, bigger sway bar, and better brake pads. The rest is normal upgrades and a paint job.

[BossHogg69]

383Ram - as for the control arms, you may not need tubulars if you can't find/build any. I had a '92 C1500 that I built to handle the twisties, and I couldn't afford a nice set of tubular arms at the time, so i boxed the lower a-arms in. Made a cardboard template of the bottom of the arm, cut out holes to access my sway bar adjusting nuts and welded it to the bottom of the arm. I didn't do anything to the upppers though. That along with a full polyurethane bushing set front to rear did wonders for the handling. For a truck it handled very tight. It was also dropped 5/7 (almost a little too low, really), a 1" rear sway bar, Hotchkis springs and Belltech Shocks. The 1" Addco rear bar really helped stiffen things up, but they didn't make one for the drop I had so I had to cut the end links down to get the bar to fit right. I was running 18" Weld wheels, with 245/45's fr and 295/35's in the back, Bridgestone Potenza SO2 (they were the sh*t at the time - 2000/01) It was a 350/5 spd truck with 3.73's and an Auburn LSD.

I agree with a 4" drop in front, it allows plenty of room for the suspension to cycle without bottoming, yet still getting a decent center of gravity. The only thing about the Poly bushings is that they squeak, but that's a minor trade off for what you get in return. I'll be using a 1.25" bar in the front of my '69 and a 1" or 1.125" in the rear. Again, I'll be running an 18" wheel, but like you say, 15" with the right tires will work fine IMO. I will say if I was doing it on the cheap, I'd try to put my money on the best tires and shocks I could find.

[383Ram]

I am just curious, do you have a pic of the front bar? Someone hodge podged my truck together originally, and put an aftermarket bar on the truck---but its not the one made for a dodge, but i am thinking its a GM bar of some sort. Whatever it is, it fits good, but i'd like to find an application so i can get a bigger bar in the front.

Yes, boxing the stock arms is another option i thought abought. I have 2" dropped spindles that have shorter steeing arms cast in so it will quicken the steering. If i can find a spring that'll get me another 1" or so drop, i think i'll be good---i have to buy new springs anyhow as someone tourched my originals.

I would like to stiffen the power steering some, i think when i looked into this once there was some type of valve i could install inline to the pressure line---dont quite remember the details though. The other choice is to see if i can retrofit a actual GM saginaw steering box into my truck--one the can be modified by Firm Feel or someone similar. Let me explain further. Dodges used Saginaw boxes but were built with Dodge guts. A typical GM box will be a direct bolt on, but i have no idea what the pitman arms look like to see if i can hook it to my stock steering linkage. Hooking to the column is a no brainer using Flaming River parts.

For the rear, i am going to flip the axle on top of the springs. To do this and not make it too low, i have to also flip the shakle around ( like a car setup) to make the height come back up. Then i can fine tune it from there with spring packs and blocks.

Obviously there is a ton of frame flex, but i think thats where i personally would have to draw the line. I may box some of the frame, but i dont know. I am definatly not putting a roll bar in. This is a true street truck.

My hope is that the big block isn't going to cause too much havoc in the weight dept. Maybe i should have stuck with the aluminum headed 383 i was building instead of the iron heded 454---but man, there isn't any substitute for brute torque and cubic inches. I wish i had the dime to do a 496.

[Super73]

Do any of you own "Chassis Enginering' by Herb Adams? Amazon.com: Chassis Engineering HP1055...
I would suggest purchasing it before going too far in to your build. A ton of great info.

Also, have any of you looked in to some of the C5 front suspensions that are available at a "decent" price? Another thought would be the newer body style truck I think come with what looks like a decent set of control arms from a glance. I haven't totaly inspected them though.

I think there is more weight in the spindles and brakes than a control arm swap. Plus probably better money spent to slow these heavy beasts down.

Doing a 3 link in the back of a truck would be super simple..

[Super73]

Do any of you own "Chassis Enginering' by Herb Adams? Amazon.com: Chassis Engineering HP1055...
I would suggest purchasing it before going too far in to your build. A ton of great info.

Also, have any of you looked in to some of the C5 front suspensions that are available at a "decent" price? I'm talking foinf and buying the parts and fabing it up on your frame. Another thought would be the newer body style truck I think come with what looks like a decent set of control arms from a glance. I haven't totaly inspected them though.

I think there is more weight in the spindles and brakes than a control arm swap. Plus probably better money spent to slow these heavy beasts down.

Doing a 3 link in the back of a truck would be super simple..

[tymbom]

I've got a copy of that book. There is so much info in it that it hurts your head. I just wanna have fun with my truck and keep the cost down as much as possible. I think that you can do alot with a little ingenuity.

[BossHogg69]

I mainly went with the CPP tubulars to keep my suspension geometry right after the drop and for the 'just because' factor. I've read about some people using C4/5 stuff, but that really never appealed to me much, mostly the cost and the time trying to adapt it all and make it work. Not to mention some of the Corvette stuff looks a little puny compared to most of the things used on a truck. I'm not trying to fool myself into building a something unrealistic, I just want to make my '69 handle better than any 'street' truck has a right to. I mean, here in Arkansas there are some nice twisties, so if some douche in a Porsche Boxster (or whatever douchebags drive) wants to try me, I'll be able to give him a good view of my tailgate.

I will definitely look into getting that book, I'm always down for more info!

[joeys66pickup]

that would be so damn fun.... showing something some tailgate in the twisties would make my day

[383Ram]

I am on the same page as tymbom. I want to have a little fun with economical costs involved. I don't have that particular book, but for now i am going to do what i know works. I have a long ways to go to get there so this will be the start.

I just found a set of 15x8 wheels i forgot i had---but i need to find what is cheaper to do as they are not the right bolt pattern (Dodge switched bolt patterns in the 80's). So i need to find if its cheaper to buy 4 new wheels, or 2 wheels, some rotors, drums, and a set of earlier used axles. I guess it depends on what i can get used.

I am off to a swap meet today---which is mostly circle track guys, we'll see what i can score.

[leftcoast66]

Originally Posted by Super73

Do any of you own "Chassis Enginering' by Herb Adams? Amazon.com: Chassis Engineering HP1055 (0075478010554): Herb Adams: Books

I would suggest purchasing it before going too far in to your build. A ton of great info.

Also, have any of you looked in to some of the C5 front suspensions that are available at a "decent" price? I'm talking foinf and buying the parts and fabing it up on your frame. Another thought would be the newer body style truck I think come with what looks like a decent set of control arms from a glance. I haven't totaly inspected them though.

I think there is more weight in the spindles and brakes than a control arm swap. Plus probably better money spent to slow these heavy beasts down.

Doing a 3 link in the back of a truck would be super simple..

Amazing book, I've got a copy of it at home. The fiance's dad even stole it to try and get an edge on the guys he race's rc cars with, and understand more of what he's building. I still won't loan it to him though, I'm one of the guys he's racing.

This would be a very fun truck to build, someday after college hopefully I'll get to build my c10 as one, sadly its sitting in a million pieces at home while I sit 5 hours away at college.

[383Ram]

I didnt score anything at the swap meet for making the truck handle. I think if i was going to use some circle track stuff, i better do more reaserch on it first. There were lots of tubular sway bars and arm setups there so that might be a possibility to use---depends on the cost vs just buying a bar that fits from a vendor---but the circle track stuff can be swapped very easy if you need more or less.

[BossHogg69]

383Ram - I'll get a pic of my front sway bar for you tonight. It's buried underneath a bunch of boxes of parts, but I'll get it out and take a few pics if you still want them.

[383Ram]

Pictures always welcomed, appreciate it if you could do that.