56 frame with 77 nova clip question

[izonme13]

so i had a nova clip put on the 56 frame. I had him z the clip 3 inches higher than the frame. So today I went to set the motor in and well it doesnt work with stock motor mounts. Looks like i will have to cut the trans cover and push the motor about 2 inches forward to give me some room from the firewall. Anyone else have this problem? Also deciding if Im going to use race car solid mounts for the motor....

[raycow]

Originally Posted by izonme13

Also deciding if Im going to use race car solid mounts for the motor....

I strongly advise against this unless you are building the truck for race only. If you need convincing, look for a car/truck with solid mounts and try to get a ride in it.

Ray

[izonme13]

Please elaborate on why you advise not too. I dont know anybody that has a street car with them. My friends racecar obviously does, but thats a different combo all together. Thanks

[raycow]

Originally Posted by izonme13

I dont know anybody that has a street car with them.

Well I think you just answered your own question there. Almost nobody is driving them on the street. With solid mounts, you will get an intolerable amount of noise/vibration inside the cab. You might be willing to put up with it a quarter mile at a time, but you won't like it for street driving. If you heard/felt it in your friend's car, why are you expecting yours to be different?

Ray

[bobinbc]

Actually I had solid mounts on a Nova with a mild big block and no one could tell any difference. But, the Nova subframe is rubber mounted to the car so that may be a factor....

[Wheelie]

I would not use solid mounts on a street car. Besides having a lot of vibration, it allows more flex for road driving. Solid mounts may break or become weak from the added stress of daily use. Now, to raise the mounts. I would use some square tube and stand it up. I think its 2.5 inch to 3 inch square tube but get a standard GM motor mount that fits your block and measure inside of the mount. The mount sets right in there on the top like a glove and it works good. Your drill through the tube and bolt the mount on and you can mock the engine at the height you want and just match the angle at the bottom of the square tube where you weld to the subframe and your done!

[bobinbc]

Originally Posted by Wheelie

Besides having a lot of vibration, it allows more flex for road driving. Solid mounts may break or become weak from the added stress of daily use.

Hogwash! Solid mounts are SOLID 1/4 inch steel. They don't flex, become weak or break. Rubber mounts do though. If you are putting any serious horsepower in it, solid will last, rubber will break. BTDT
But my question to izonme13 is why do you want to use solid mounts? If it's for clearance I don't think they'll help, the Moroso ones I've used were the same dimensions as stock rubber mounts.

Originally Posted by Wheelie

Now, to raise the mounts

He doesn't need to raise the mounts, he raised the frame and now the engine's too high.....but that sounds like a good way to do it if he needed to

Z'ing the frame 3 inches is going to cause trans tunnel/firewall interference for sure but if your rad support is mounted in the 6 cyl position you will have enough room to bring the engine forward from the firewall at least 2-3 inches easy. I think the limiting factor will be oilpan to crossmember clearance. Where does the engine sit now in relation to the firewall and the crossmember when it's on the stock Nova mounts? When I did my G-body clip on my last truck I moved the g-body engine mounts BACK 3 inches to get the engine nice and close to the firewall. Are you going to use an engine driven fan or electric? Stock rad or different? Also exhaust will be a problem you need to solve (headers?) if you move the engine. I'm dealing with that right now on my GTO clip with the engine set back from the stock position. I ramble on sometimes...
B

[izonme13]

Other than trimming the trans tunnel a little, my main problem is mounting the motor mounts forward the 2 inches I need. Right now the height should be fine and yes I may change oil pans once I get that far.The distance from the valve cover to firewall is about 2 inches and I want to leave it there for room to work on it or the distributor. Im going to run dual electric fans which will help for clearence.
As far as my friends racecar its a dirt late model, so thats no way to compare. yet was giving me ideas as to mounting the motor in the subframe. He has never had a problem with it stressing or breaking. Yes I understand there isnt much flex with a full caged frame either.
So basically Im just looking at getting ideas from you guys on how to mount the block given its forward 2 inches from stock and stock mounts wont bolt up with out adding plate to the front of the crossmember........any other ideas??
Oh the last question was where does the engine sit in stock location...Its against the firewall, maybe even wont go into stock location. I dont think it will go back far enough to use stock location as the trans fill tube is in the way and I refuse to cut out the firewall for clearance. Id rather just move the engine forward and go from there.

[Wheelie]

Originally Posted by bobinbc

Hogwash! Solid mounts are SOLID 1/4 inch steel. They don't flex, become weak or break. Rubber mounts do though. If you are putting any serious horsepower in it, solid will last, rubber will break. BTDT
But my question to izonme13 is why do you want to use solid mounts? If it's for clearance I don't think they'll help, the Moroso ones I've used were the same dimensions as stock rubber mounts.




He doesn't need to raise the mounts, he raised the frame and now the engine's too high.....but that sounds like a good way to do it if he needed to

Z'ing the frame 3 inches is going to cause trans tunnel/firewall interference for sure but if your rad support is mounted in the 6 cyl position you will have enough room to bring the engine forward from the firewall at least 2-3 inches easy. I think the limiting factor will be oilpan to crossmember clearance. Where does the engine sit now in relation to the firewall and the crossmember when it's on the stock Nova mounts? When I did my G-body clip on my last truck I moved the g-body engine mounts BACK 3 inches to get the engine nice and close to the firewall. Are you going to use an engine driven fan or electric? Stock rad or different? Also exhaust will be a problem you need to solve (headers?) if you move the engine. I'm dealing with that right now on my GTO clip with the engine set back from the stock position. I ramble on sometimes...
B

I guess I shouldn't post after working a 14 hour day with 3 hours sleep but I am assuming your mounts are solid. Some peoples version of solid aren't as solid as you may think basically I have seen some cobbled "solid mounts" that were hanging on by a thread. I have repaired many and seen a lot. SO for the sake of safety I would advise not to use solid mounts unless done by a pro and will pass inspection at the track if we want to get technical.

[nikwho]

I could not use factory mounting locations either. I made my own mounts. I bought some factory replacement rubber engine mounts from NAPA for around $8 each, a couple of grade eight bolts, some 1/2" I.D. tubing and some 1/4"x2" steel plate. I got the engine where I wanted it supported by my cherry picker. I had the engine mounts bolted to the block and the 1/2" id tubing bolted to the engine mounts. I measured, cut and tacked the 1/4"x2" plate in place from the subframe to the 1/2" tubing. Then I pulled the engine out, fully welded the plates and boxed them in front and back for extra strength(not shown in this picture).

[nikwho]

here is a close up of the mount that you asked for. Its from a cell phone so poor quality but it gets the point across. I also boxed in the front and rear on mine to make it a bit tougher.

[izonme13]

Thanks nikwho. I have the opposite problem from you. I need to go forward as i see you needed to go back. But still a great idea and now I have something to work on. One question thou, what vehicle did those motor mounts come from? Havent seen that type before.

[nikwho]

ask for mounts from a '64-'67 V8 Nova. im sure they were in tons of chevy cars, but I had a first gen V8 nova that used these style of mounts.

[raycow]

I agree. Those look like the common passenger car mounts that started in 58 and were used until the clamshell type replaced them (early 70s or so).

Ray

[nikwho]

The very same concept will work for you. there is plenty of room (6-7") to move them forward. You should be able to mount your engine in the same manner.

[izonme13]

I only have to move the motor forward about 2 inches from stock. My main concern now is the oil pan. I dont want to trim the frame crossmember, so I am looking for a oil pan that doesnt slop back as much. Which will allow the motor to be moved forward without frame modification. i cant lift the motor any higher than it is now. Otherwise the trans tunnel will have to be modified.

[bobinbc]

Can you show us some pics?