57 with camaro clip caster problem

[1adam12]

i have a 57 with a 2nd gen camaro clip i took to alinged camer good toe in good caster -7degress it call for 0-+2 degress..munes at -7 Im at a loss i have no idea on how to fix..it wanders allover road..I dont even want to drive it..any help would be great......Thanks

[55metalmonkey]

Originally Posted by 1adam12

i have a 57 with a 2nd gen camaro clip i took to alinged camer good toe in good caster -7degress it call for 0-+2 degress..munes at -7 Im at a loss i have no idea on how to fix..it wanders allover road..I dont even want to drive it..any help would be great......Thanks

Just wondering how the clip was done and when. Was it grafted in or is it a lap style full clip. Do you have any pictures, they might help to see what was done and see what the possible solutions are

[1adam12]

I will get some pics..I just got this truc k a few months back still finding problems with this thing...

[1adam12]

Here are a few not the best I will need to jack er up and better pics..Not sure what PO did if it's anything like the rear i might be in trouble....

[buggy5872]

If the caster is that far off.....its probably not in there straight. Looks like they cut off the tails of the clip when they put it in. It is much harder to keep it straight when it is done that way. I put mine in with the tails still on. It has great road manners at any speed.

[Indian113]

I would buy a new clip or at least the rails and redo it. I have never been a fan of the cut and but method. Some guys swear by it I feel it would take a better man than me to get it right.

[klutz51]

If the caster is equal on both sides and you need more? the Camaro front subframes were known for settling and not being to get enough caster and camber adjustments. You can get offset shafts for the upper control arms that will allow you to adjust your alignment into spec. I have been doing these type of repairs at the shop for over 20 years. make sure your thrust angle is good from the subframe install or you might be fighting a loosing battle.

[ghettoluxury]

An old racing trick is to take the upper control arms off and swap them side for side. I would try this first as it will gain you positive caster.

[1adam12]

What's and how do u measure thrust angle I think passenger is -6 drivers -7 deg

[klutz51]

thrust angle is measured on the alignment rack measuring the rear wheels to the front with a straight line down the middle of the truck. it would show if the rear end is not straight or if the front clip is not straight, otherwise known as dog tracking. that is why I asked if the caster measurement is close or equal on right and left. if all you need is more caster than offset shafts will work.

[1adam12]

They did a 4 wheel they said nothing about it being off..I have the paperwork at home I will check..but it drive straight as a arrow till I get some speed the it looks like I will get pulled over for A DUI all over the place...Thanks for the info..I will keep you posted..

[klutz51]

good then you need positive caster. think of it like the front of a motorcycle, the front forks lean back behind the front wheel giving control and stability. if you were to take the forks to the top or in front of the wheel (negative caster) and try to steer you have no stability and control. now same principal with your spindle lean the top back (positive caster) more stability, lean the top forward (negative) less stability, more felt at high speeds.

[55metalmonkey]

JMO but from the look of the pics the clip was welded on with just a slight fwd tilt causing the issue
I believe these might be the off set shafts you need to move your upper control arms back to correct your caster issue.
http://www.globalwest.net/705-1.html

Your local alignment shop might have cheaper options available and would know which ones to order to correct the problem

[1958Warrior]

Good info on the offset shafts I didn't know they made them. I hope I don't need them when I get mine aligned but good to know they exist.

There are adjustable control arms available too, but they are very proud of them:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sp...a/instructions

Being that your camber and toe were correct ,I think they had the truck level side to side , but not front to back.

Evaluate where it is now to determine how safe the weld are and how the rear end is installed to even be safe driving it. I know the caster is off but if the rear is dancing around it would be a handful to steer.

Best thing would be to get the truck up on stands level the original frame, side to side and front to back. Then check to see what the angle on the upper a frame mount. Angle should be between 6*to 8* .

Cheapest and safest (not the easiest) way might have to cut and re-weld the clip on.
Its your life and others at risk.

[55metalmonkey]

Originally Posted by 1958Warrior

Good info on the offset shafts I didn't know they made them. I hope I don't need them when I get mine aligned but good to know they exist.

There are adjustable control arms available too, but they are very proud of them:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sp...a/instructions

Being that your camber and toe were correct ,I think they had the truck level side to side , but not front to back.

Evaluate where it is now to determine how safe the weld are and how the rear end is installed to even be safe driving it. I know the caster is off but if the rear is dancing around it would be a handful to steer.

Best thing would be to get the truck up on stands level the original frame, side to side and front to back. Then check to see what the angle on the upper a frame mount. Angle should be between 6*to 8* .

Cheapest and safest (not the easiest) way might have to cut and re-weld the clip on.
Its your life and others at risk.

He has some rear end issues as well
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=581142
Might be a combined effect

[papastrk]

The 0-2 degrees positive caster setting is going to be on the low side. You can go 4-6 and have a more stable feel. I'm guessing you are looking at moving the upper ball joint 1/2" or more back. One way to correct this is to cut the upper control arm bracket loose and move it back enough to get the caster you need. This will also relocate the upper shock mount location so you may have to redo this too. Not a major issue. This bracket is set in at an angle to the centerline of the frame and needs to be held to the original factory angle. If you can get someone knowledgeable with this you can do this in a few hours per side. Just a suggestion. Is the wheel centered in the fender opening?

[BMERDOC]

Originally Posted by 55metalmonkey

JMO but from the look of the pics the clip was welded on with just a slight fwd tilt causing the issue

I'm with you on this. I think the front clip was welded too high in the existing frame causing forward tilt the negative caster. The real fix would be to cut the front clip back off and re-weld it in lower but any of the remedies that everyone has provided will do the trick to gain more positive caster.

[1adam12]

here is a couple of pics of the front..kinda look like either clip is on on straight or cab is not on right..Man its alaways something!!!

[55metalmonkey]

Originally Posted by 1adam12

here is a couple of pics of the front..kinda look like either clip is on on straight or cab is not on right..Man its alaways something!!!

Well don't get too discouraged. Once you fix the suspension problems it looks like you will have a nice solid truck

[mr48chev]

Ok, a few things. As the camber is pretty close to correct the offset shafts or "rolling the crossmember are not going to help one iota. Both of those changes are to gain camber but don't have much if any effect on caster.

My best guess is that who ever put the stub on welded it on nose down in relation to the frame. The fix for that is cutting it off and welding it or a replacement back on straight.

I've posted several times before here and on other boards that when you subframe a car or truck you have to have the subframe and the vehicle's frame on the same plane so they act as if they were designed together. You don't build caster into the joining nor do you compensate for a steep rake with the joining. My guess is the that the opposite happened here and the guy who spliced them together got his angles off.

There is the real odd chance that they got the A frames on the wrong sides if they had the front end apart but that may not be likely. Looking at this Ebay cheat sheet they are on the correct sides by seeing where the snubber sticks through the A frame on each side in relation to the A frame's body.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/70-81-Camaro...53b04b&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/70-81-Camaro...53b063&vxp=mtr

You can see that that little piece of rubber sticking through is towards the front of the A arms with that long stamped design to the rear of it.

[55metalmonkey]

The ones I posted are for correcting caster issues from frame damage or sagging. I know you can get them for correcting up to 1.5 degrees but don't know if you can get them to go beyond that. If its beyond correcting with parts re-doing the clip might be the best way to go

[1adam12]

The more I look at it the more it looks like its nose diving I put a level on top of control arm it damn near level. I would guess it should be higher in front. Heck I'm just pulling out straws fight now. I checked control arms are on right but upper ball joint is art least 3/4-in in front of spindle. Thanks everyone for uour insight. I wish I knew somebody close to me to walk me through it. I will keep u posted on progress. Right now I'm looking at it and don't know to begin.

[1958Warrior]

Check out Kabwe thread Fixing a mess of a clip install for some inspiration:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=445185

It can be fixed , here is another thread this is the way I did mine, I got the veideo from no limit . The thread shows a good way to keep the front sheet metal lined up. Your frame is already cut so it would have to be bridged similar to the way Kawbe did.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=440771

Or start with a new Camaro clip.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=148978

[papastrk]

You can place a straight edge across the upper control arm shaft bolts from front to back and use an angle finder to show the actual angle you have now. If the clip was done correctly, this angle should read between 6 and 8 degrees depending on the frame rake.

[ghettoluxury]

Originally Posted by 1adam12

The more I look at it the more it looks like its nose diving I put a level on top of control arm it damn near level. I would guess it should be higher in front. Heck I'm just pulling out straws fight now. I checked control arms are on right but upper ball joint is art least 3/4-in in front of spindle. Thanks everyone for uour insight. I wish I knew somebody close to me to walk me through it. I will keep u posted on progress. Right now I'm looking at it and don't know to begin.

Originally Posted by ghettoluxury

An old racing trick is to take the upper control arms off and swap them side for side. I would try this first as it will gain you positive caster.

Give this a try first. It may fix the problem completely.