buying an Apache I need your help!! vin issue.

[yellow400ex05]

Alright I'm buying a 1958 Apache from a state that doesn't require a title for a vehicle older than 15 years old.

is this the correct location for the VIN tag? also the VIN comes back as a 1958 as per the state police in my state, but the VIN starts like H255XXXXXXX which would signify a 1955 truck would it not?

could it be that when this truck was restored they used an old 2nd series cab without a title? its been owned and registered by the guy almost 20 years.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Yes, that's the correct location for the tag.

It is VERY common for '55.2 through '59 cabs to be swapped as they are entirely interchangeable with very little difficulty. It's got a '58(?) clip bolted to a '55 cab.

[OrrieG]

There is a vin stamped on the top of the frame rail just in front of the steering box. If that one has been ground off, there is another on top of the frame rail below the drivers side step. Can be tricky to read, you can use chalk and mirror or pencil rubbing... I did not know it was there until I pulled my cab. If the frame matches the cab then the clip has been changed. If the frame matches the title then the cab was changed at some point. Do NOT alter anything until it is sorted out and you have a good title in your name.

[yellow400ex05]

The thing that bothers me is how can it be registered as a 1958 when the vin would be considered a 1955 based off of the beginning numbers?

[1project2many]

Originally Posted by yellow400ex05

The thing that bothers me is how can it be registered as a 1958 when the vin would be considered a 1955 based off of the beginning numbers?

It's possible that the state police info is from a historical record, not a manufacturer's database. IOW if legal paperwork had been filed indicating that exact VIN is correct for a '58 truck, then as far as the law is concerned, that's the VIN for that '58 truck.

My state doesn't require a title for vehicles over 15 years but if you change three major VIN marked components here you are supposed to see the state police and get a new VIN assigned. Although the state currently issues a new VIN plate, that may not have always been the case.

It's been a few years since I've had to deal with this and I'm sure someone here can back this up but as I remember the 55-56 cab VIN tag location was between the upper and lower hinges and the 57-59 was on the upper door pillar as in your picture. I'd ask for photos of the frame area or engine (if original) to get a second VIN. Also, if you get a closer shot of the tag you can look for correct attachment method and actually read the VIN.

[Russell Ashley]

It has the 55 style steering wheel so my guess is the front clip has been changed.

[mr48chev]

That state may not require a "title" but one still has to prove that is the correct truck for the paperwork that goes with it.

I'd say that requesting that the seller have the truck inspected by the proper authorities and get the paperwork/document saying that yes the truck has been inspected and yes the vin is correct and matches the registration and the year is correct. If they truly want to make an honest deal with you they will comply. If they balk at doing it, I'd pass.

There are plenty of trucks out there for sale (you night have to travel further to find one but they are out there) buying one with suspect paperwork may lead to serious issues later.

As Russel said someone may have changed noses at one time and along the way it became assumed that the truck was a 58 rather than a 55. Someone might even have done the swap in 58 so people would think he had a new truck rather than one three years old.

Or it could be an "assembled from a batch of parts" truck that was assumed to be a 58 when it went though the inspection process and the inspector wasn't up to snuff on Vin numbers.

[_Ogre]

this is the only pic i could fine of my vin tag, 58-59 vin tag is located 10'' above the lower hinge
obviously you've figured out it is not a 58 cab
as others have said, get the paperwork straight before you buy it

55-59 cabs are basically the same; 58-59 used different hood hinges if you look under the dash you should see where the hinges are vs were

[OrrieG]

Battery box on 59-58 sits lower, if you put in a 55-57 in a 58-59 and hit a bump with out the battery secured things spark, go boom and lights go out...I know from experience...

[mr48chev]

That happens in a 57 Panel with all stock sheet metal. I had to buy a new battery after one of those experiences and tie downs for the battery.

Truthfully I'd rather have the little turquoise truck in question titled to match the vin on the body and frame rather than by what the nose is.

It's still documentation from the proper inspectors saying the vin is good all around and the paper work is good or no deal as far as I am concerned because when you haul it back to your state and go to title it the mismatched numbers will most likely be discovered. Either by the inspector when it is inspected in your state or by the People in the state licensing office.

[58CameoAZ]

Steering wheel that is pictured is of a 55-56
and Also the 57-59 trucks accelerator pedal mounted to the floor and are different than the 55-56 years that mounted up higher!
and every Vin tag i have ever seen on a 58-59 that tag was mounted down lower in a Horizontal fashion
My guess would be the cab is an early 55 or 56 FWIW!
Allen

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by yellow400ex05

Alright I'm buying a 1958 Apache from a state that doesn't require a title for a vehicle older than 15 years old.

is this the correct location for the VIN tag? also the VIN comes back as a 1958 as per the state police in my state, but the VIN starts like H255XXXXXXX which would signify a 1955 truck would it not?

could it be that when this truck was restored they used an old 2nd series cab without a title? its been owned and registered by the guy almost 20 years.

The vin is from a 55 3100, the location also is a 55 location, 58 and 9 were on the hinge panel on the driver side between the upper and lower hinge. You need to match the frame vin to the plate vin. We all have seen recovery of car stolen 20 years ago so be careful. The new owner always loses out.

[Softpatch]

1955
Sample Vehicle Identification Number is: D255A000001
D* Series: (D-1500, H-3100, M-3200, J-3600, L-3800)
2 Second Series
55 Last two digits of model year (55,56,57,58,59)
A Assembly plant (A-Atlanta GA, B-Baltimore MD, F-Flint MI, J-Janesville WI, K-Kansas City MO, L-Los Angeles CA, N-Norwood OH, O-Oakland CA, S-St. Louis MO, T-Tarrytown NY)
000001 Consecutive Sequence Number
* ("V" prefix indicates a V-8 engine)
Decoding:
1500 Series
Second Series
1955 Model year
Built in Atlanta, Georgia
The first car built
.

.
1958
Sample Vehicle Identification Number is: 3A58A000001
3A* Series: (D-1171, H-1271, 3A-3100, 3B-3200, 3E-3600, 3G-3800)
58 Last two digits of model year (55>,56,57,58,59)
A Assembly plant (A-Atlanta GA, B-Baltimore MD, F-Flint MI, J-Janesville WI, K-Kansas City MO, L-Los Angeles CA, N-Norwood OH, O-Oakland CA, S-St. Louis MO, T-Tarrytown NY, W-Willow Run, MI)
000001 Consecutive Sequence Number
* ("V" prefix indicates a V-8 engine)
Decoding:
3100 Series
1958 Model year
Built in Atlanta, Georgia
The first car built

[yellow400ex05]

The VIN number matches the frame on the truck, so it's good, but its just a 1955 chevy with 1958 fenders/sheet metal basically. So for the last almost 20 year the guy thought he had a 1958, and registered it as so.

[joedoh]

some states titled trucks the year they were first registered. I have seen a 64 C10 with torsion bars, and a 75 bmw 2002 with round taillights. its unlikely but not impossible it sat around on a COO before someone finally registered it.

other times the title gets lost and the truck drops off the books and when they ask what year it is, the owner gets it wrong. If the state police are ok, I would say you are stirring kool aid.

[1project2many]

The VIN number matches the frame on the truck, so it's good, but its just a 1955 chevy with 1958 fenders/sheet metal basically. So for the last almost 20 year the guy thought he had a 1958, and registered it as so.

Sounds like it. The databases used by state registry or DMV are not always the same as the police database. When I bought my '57 I contacted the state DMV where the truck was registered and asked politely if they had any history on the vehicle. They happened to have it all, and sent me a nice little computer printout of the registered owners prior to my buying it. State police didn't show anything... the truck hadn't been registered for ten years. Just to be safe, I'd consider a call to motor vehicle (if that's different from State Police).

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by yellow400ex05

The VIN number matches the frame on the truck, so it's good, but its just a 1955 chevy with 1958 fenders/sheet metal basically. So for the last almost 20 year the guy thought he had a 1958, and registered it as so.

If that's the case then they welded front extensions on to the frame so the 58 sheet metal would fit. 55-7 frames are shorter by 2.5" in the front and don't directly bolt on, it should be visible where they added the 2.5 inches at the bumper.

[_Ogre]

now that you know the vin matches the registration, that's all i would mention to the local dmv
even if you need it inspected the inspector will match the vin to the registration and possibly run the vin through a theft database
i would not add any other information

[OrrieG]

I'd have it ran thru a theft data base anyway before I bought it since there is a question. Everyone assumes everyone else is honest but I know of at least three widely circulated cases where someone spent a lot of money on a project only to find it was a rig stolen many years ago. I have a 68 Honda Trail Bike I never got titled because I got it from a shop going out of business that had a mechanic lien on it but never formally filed the paperwork. I have a bill of sale and contacted the last known owners but they had no interest in helping me out and state would not issue a title or registration. Not a big deal because I only rode it off road hunting for 2 weeks a year and game wardens were not interested in the bike only my hunting license. I rode it 20 years that way with no issues.

[made2drag]

man just snatch the '55 vin tag off and toss it in the junk drawer......you'd have to be someone on this site to know the difference in a 55 or 58 cab anyway....just joking....kinda

[made2drag]

i know how ya feel...my 56 is now sitting on a 76 c10 chassis...i dont have the paperwork for the frame to match the vin if anyone needed to see it for whatever reason....people say its never gonna be an issue....but who knows for sure