Auto To Manual Swap - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

MacQuigley · 09-05-2016, 11:49 AM

When I bought my 62 C10 back this time last year - cant believe Ive had it a year already - it came with a 350 SBC and a TH400.

Cutting a long story short Im going to be fitting a 454 BBC and was planning on fitting the TH400 but Ive not got the chance to fit a 4 speed manual box.

What all will I need to convert to manual from automatic and are the parts easy enough to get?

I'll need a peddle and a clutch master cylinder and I'll have to make up pipes etc but if there anything else that Um going to need? And I guess I need to ask is there anything that would stop me making the conversion ie if the truck was automatic out the factory is it still possible to make the conversion?

Id appreciate any advise you guy's can come up with.

vince1 · 09-05-2016, 01:35 PM

IMO you're going backwards but it is your truck. You will of course also need a flywheel, clutch pressure plate and disc, and throw out bearing. Also don't forget the slave cylinder and bracketry as well as a different bell housing.

MacQuigley · 09-05-2016, 05:23 PM

Hi Vince, Thanks for the reply. You may be right it may not be the way to go but I have the chance and its probably easier to go manual now while Im completely rebuilding and change to auto later, if I was so inclined, than the other way about.

Regarding my question about what I need. I should have been more specific. The 454 will come with flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, slave cylinder, release bearing and bell housing. Its more with regards to the peddle and whats directly connected to it that I was asking about. Because the truck came as an auto Ive no idea if I can get the parts to convert it to manual or for that matter what parts. I'll have a trawl through the workshop manual tomorrow and see if I can figure it out then see what parts I can get.

Bill

jtrichard · 09-05-2016, 07:53 PM

Does the 4 speed have a rear mount? looking at your pics in other posts your truck was always an auto trans so you will need a pedal assembly (a 63/66 may be your best choice) and a clutch master cly. kit from captainfab

**jocko** · 09-05-2016, 08:54 PM

not sure any 62s came with autos except for perhaps the rare pglide. Current TH400 means nothing - that's just what's in it today. Two types if hydraulic cylinders you can use. Slave cylinder still requires the manual clutch fork/fulcrum, etc, but I believe you're referencing a (modern) release bearing master cylinder in your first post? That's probably a good call, eliminates all the mech linkage. Stock Z bar for full manual actuation would require mod to work with a big block. Slave cylinder approach still requires stock bell hsg and bracketry for the slave setup. Full hyd release bearing a good call - setup is important. You'll want to make sure your parking brake is functional if you were relying on your trans to keep er from rollin down the hill... Depending on which 5-speed you use, you may have firewall/tunnel clearance issues. Stick location always an issue if you have a bench seat. If optional, the fwd stick location is the only one that really clears a stock bench, so make sure you specify when you order it. Might cost extra to move it the fwd position also, keep in mind. You may need a new or need to mod your driveshaft. Recommend order a new one of correct length and hang onto the one you have now for the sbc/TH400 combo. Recommend plug the trans cooling line ports in the radiator after you remove the lines. I believe CaptainFab sells a nice power brake bracket that has a spot for a slave cyl ala 62 - but you may be able to use it as a mount point for the release bearing slave cyl if that's the route you're going. You'll have to cut the floor if there's no hole in the right place already! Measure twice, cut once, and all that. Speedo cable may need to be changed to make it reach the tail of a long o/d 5-speed, just something to be aware of. Extenders can be bought, but I'd buy a whole new cable. You'll need a crossmember as mentioned, but only if you do not support it at the bell. If you're getting an integral bell trans or one without mid-mount dog ears, use a rear mount trans crossmember.

EDIT: Ok, sorry, I mis-read. Thought you were doing all this to get a 5-speed o/d for some reason. Why on earth go to this trouble for a 4-sp with no o/d nowadays? If it's lying around, I get it, but still, no benefit performance-wise or cruising rpm-wise (3rd gear in a TH400 =1:1 same as 4th in any Muncie, BW T10, etc). Granted, rowing gears is more fun, but for all this work, a 5-speed would be preferred for many reasons.

bpmcgee · 09-05-2016, 11:47 PM

Maybe he wants the granny first? I didn't see - is the 4 speed an sm420?

B

**Captainfab** · 09-06-2016, 12:07 AM

Since your truck already had the TH400, you already have the trans crossmember. It will just need to be moved forward a bit. This may or may not be an issue with the X-member frame your truck has. You will definitely need the clutch pedal and related parts. I may be able to help with those. Aside from that, if you were to go with my booster bracket with the hydraulic clutch, you will only need small bits such as the line from the clutch master to the slave cylinder, etc.

MacQuigley · 09-06-2016, 03:12 AM

Thanks for all the advice/comments guy's.

The reason for the manual box, which is a BWT10, if purely because its available and for fun. I know there is no advantage over the TH400 in fact there may be some disadvantages but in fact I prefer manual drive. My Defender, Morris Minor and even my day to day drive a Masda CX5 are all manual. Only my Discovery 1 is auto and while it is nice to drive I dont feel I get all the benefits of the old Rover V8 that its got under the hood through the auto box.

I have no idea what transmission was fitted out of the factory but when it came to me it had an auto box in it but it wasnt fitted, neither the transmission or engine were fitted, they were just laying in the truck. So Ive still got to fabricate the mounts for both engine and transmission so there are no issues there.

I have already bought a booster bracket from Captainfab based on my using an auto transmission but Im talking to him about other items right now and can always buy a bracket with a mount for the clutch master cylinder.

I will definitely need a peddle assembly thats for sure, but I guess that shouldn't be too hard to get second hand. Should be no issues eventually with the parking brake. Already fitted new barking brakes when I fitted the Wilwood discs on the rear. I just need the other missing parts to finish the system (which I have found and just need to get shipped over).

vince1 · 09-06-2016, 03:28 PM

Is a T10 even strong enough to put behind a 454? I cringe at the thought of that set up.

MacQuigley · 09-06-2016, 04:32 PM

My dad's been running them as a pair for 20 years and never had the slightest glitch.

padresag · 09-06-2016, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vince1

Is a T10 even strong enough to put behind a 454? I cringe at the thought of that set up.

just make sure that the bearings and that are in good shape. worn bearings mean slop; slop means breakage. if you don't abuse it to badit should take what you give it. they wre behind 400 cu. in. engines in the day
ron

MacQuigley · 09-06-2016, 05:12 PM

Cheers Ron.

I know its never been thrashed. While my dad has on occasion put the peddle to the metal, or in this case the peddle to the fibre glass he has never abused it. He never really had to as his Cobra is so light the driver train easily shifts it.

padresag · 09-06-2016, 05:15 PM

they were orig frt mounted at the timing cover and on either side of the bellhousing and I gather that is all lost to you. fabricate eng side mounts and use the rear trans mounting.
that will also free up room at the front of the engine for ps pump bracket mounting if you go for p/s
ron

padresag · 09-06-2016, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacQuigley

Cheers Ron.

I know its never been thrashed. While my dad has on occasion put the peddle to the metal, or in this case the peddle to the fibre glass he has never abused it. He never really had to as his Cobra is so light the driver train easily shifts it.

bearings do wear though. you do have a working history of it thogh
ron

MacQuigley · 09-06-2016, 05:21 PM

We will be checking both it and the engine out when my dad takes them out the Cobra, before he drops in his 509.

padresag · 09-06-2016, 05:32 PM

pretty nice to get hand me downs like that.
ron

MacQuigley · 09-06-2016, 05:43 PM

Absolutely Ron.

He has had a rough last 12 months and decided just to go for it and do the work to it that he's wanted to do for a few years.

His generosity is allowing me to build a much better truck far faster than I otherwise would have been able to had I had to buy a new motor small or big block.

Mind you he will take his pound of flesh for it, he always does, but in truth if be helping him with the new motor anyway. Looking forward to seeing his Cobra with his nice new aluminium 509 in it. I didn't help him build it 30 years ago as I was 21 with other things on my mind. Always regretted that. Now I can make up for that a bit.

jtrichard · 09-06-2016, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by padresag

they were orig frt mounted at the timing cover and on either side of the bellhousing and I gather that is all lost to you. fabricate eng side mounts and use the rear trans mounting.
that will also free up room at the front of the engine for ps pump bracket mounting if you go for p/s
ron

NOT ALL were front and bell housing mounted the auto trans ones had side and rear look at his post #22 note the side mounts on the Xmember and the brake ONLY master cly. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=681645 AND also post #73 you will see the rear mount area here http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=681645&page=3

MacQuig I commend you on your commitment and diligence with your under taking must be hell getting the parts over there

padresag · 09-06-2016, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtrichard

NOT ALL were front and bell housing mounted the auto trans ones had side and rear look at his post #22 note the side mounts on the Xmember and the brake ONLY master cly. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=681645 AND also post #73 you will see the rear mount area here http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=681645&page=3

MacQuig I commend you on your commitment and diligence with your under taking must be hell getting the parts over there

JTR; I do know that, but only in 2 whl drive
Ron

TopFuel1966 · 09-07-2016, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vince1

Is a T10 even strong enough to put behind a 454? I cringe at the thought of that set up.

There's nothing wrong with a T-10. It was the transmission of choice in all of the early '60's GM and Ford 400+ HP high performance cars.

09-05-2016, 11:49 AM	#1
MacQuigley Registered User Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Scotland Posts: 737	Auto To Manual Swap When I bought my 62 C10 back this time last year - cant believe Ive had it a year already - it came with a 350 SBC and a TH400. Cutting a long story short Im going to be fitting a 454 BBC and was planning on fitting the TH400 but Ive not got the chance to fit a 4 speed manual box. What all will I need to convert to manual from automatic and are the parts easy enough to get? I'll need a peddle and a clutch master cylinder and I'll have to make up pipes etc but if there anything else that Um going to need? And I guess I need to ask is there anything that would stop me making the conversion ie if the truck was automatic out the factory is it still possible to make the conversion? Id appreciate any advise you guy's can come up with.

09-05-2016, 05:23 PM	#3
MacQuigley Registered User Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Scotland Posts: 737	Re: Auto To Manual Swap Hi Vince, Thanks for the reply. You may be right it may not be the way to go but I have the chance and its probably easier to go manual now while Im completely rebuilding and change to auto later, if I was so inclined, than the other way about. Regarding my question about what I need. I should have been more specific. The 454 will come with flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, slave cylinder, release bearing and bell housing. Its more with regards to the peddle and whats directly connected to it that I was asking about. Because the truck came as an auto Ive no idea if I can get the parts to convert it to manual or for that matter what parts. I'll have a trawl through the workshop manual tomorrow and see if I can figure it out then see what parts I can get. Bill

09-05-2016, 07:53 PM	#4
jtrichard Registered User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: joshua tree ca. Posts: 1,484	Re: Auto To Manual Swap Does the 4 speed have a rear mount? looking at your pics in other posts your truck was always an auto trans so you will need a pedal assembly (a 63/66 may be your best choice) and a clutch master cly. kit from captainfab Last edited by jtrichard; 09-05-2016 at 08:03 PM.

09-05-2016, 08:54 PM	#5
jocko Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Godley, TX Posts: 17,975	Re: Auto To Manual Swap not sure any 62s came with autos except for perhaps the rare pglide. Current TH400 means nothing - that's just what's in it today. Two types if hydraulic cylinders you can use. Slave cylinder still requires the manual clutch fork/fulcrum, etc, but I believe you're referencing a (modern) release bearing master cylinder in your first post? That's probably a good call, eliminates all the mech linkage. Stock Z bar for full manual actuation would require mod to work with a big block. Slave cylinder approach still requires stock bell hsg and bracketry for the slave setup. Full hyd release bearing a good call - setup is important. You'll want to make sure your parking brake is functional if you were relying on your trans to keep er from rollin down the hill... Depending on which 5-speed you use, you may have firewall/tunnel clearance issues. Stick location always an issue if you have a bench seat. If optional, the fwd stick location is the only one that really clears a stock bench, so make sure you specify when you order it. Might cost extra to move it the fwd position also, keep in mind. You may need a new or need to mod your driveshaft. Recommend order a new one of correct length and hang onto the one you have now for the sbc/TH400 combo. Recommend plug the trans cooling line ports in the radiator after you remove the lines. I believe CaptainFab sells a nice power brake bracket that has a spot for a slave cyl ala 62 - but you may be able to use it as a mount point for the release bearing slave cyl if that's the route you're going. You'll have to cut the floor if there's no hole in the right place already! Measure twice, cut once, and all that. Speedo cable may need to be changed to make it reach the tail of a long o/d 5-speed, just something to be aware of. Extenders can be bought, but I'd buy a whole new cable. You'll need a crossmember as mentioned, but only if you do not support it at the bell. If you're getting an integral bell trans or one without mid-mount dog ears, use a rear mount trans crossmember. EDIT: Ok, sorry, I mis-read. Thought you were doing all this to get a 5-speed o/d for some reason. Why on earth go to this trouble for a 4-sp with no o/d nowadays? If it's lying around, I get it, but still, no benefit performance-wise or cruising rpm-wise (3rd gear in a TH400 =1:1 same as 4th in any Muncie, BW T10, etc). Granted, rowing gears is more fun, but for all this work, a 5-speed would be preferred for many reasons. Last edited by jocko; 09-05-2016 at 09:24 PM.

09-05-2016, 11:47 PM	#6
bpmcgee Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 2,181	Re: Auto To Manual Swap Maybe he wants the granny first? I didn't see - is the 4 speed an sm420? B

09-05-2016, 01:35 PM	#2
vince1 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Calgary Alberta Posts: 1,170	Re: Auto To Manual Swap IMO you're going backwards but it is your truck. You will of course also need a flywheel, clutch pressure plate and disc, and throw out bearing. Also don't forget the slave cylinder and bracketry as well as a different bell housing.

09-06-2016, 12:07 AM	#7
Captainfab 60-66 Nut Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho Posts: 23,252	Re: Auto To Manual Swap Since your truck already had the TH400, you already have the trans crossmember. It will just need to be moved forward a bit. This may or may not be an issue with the X-member frame your truck has. You will definitely need the clutch pedal and related parts. I may be able to help with those. Aside from that, if you were to go with my booster bracket with the hydraulic clutch, you will only need small bits such as the line from the clutch master to the slave cylinder, etc. __________________ Power Steering Box Adapter Plates For Sale HERE Power Brake Booster Adapter Brackets For Sale '63-'66 HERE and '67-'72 HERE and '60-'62 HERE and "60-'62 with clutch HERE Rear Disc Brake Brackets For Sale. Impala SS calipers HERE Camaro Calipers HERE D52 Calipers HERE 6 Lug HERE Hydroboost Mounting Plates HERE

09-06-2016, 03:12 AM	#8
MacQuigley Registered User Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Scotland Posts: 737	Re: Auto To Manual Swap Thanks for all the advice/comments guy's. The reason for the manual box, which is a BWT10, if purely because its available and for fun. I know there is no advantage over the TH400 in fact there may be some disadvantages but in fact I prefer manual drive. My Defender, Morris Minor and even my day to day drive a Masda CX5 are all manual. Only my Discovery 1 is auto and while it is nice to drive I dont feel I get all the benefits of the old Rover V8 that its got under the hood through the auto box. I have no idea what transmission was fitted out of the factory but when it came to me it had an auto box in it but it wasnt fitted, neither the transmission or engine were fitted, they were just laying in the truck. So Ive still got to fabricate the mounts for both engine and transmission so there are no issues there. I have already bought a booster bracket from Captainfab based on my using an auto transmission but Im talking to him about other items right now and can always buy a bracket with a mount for the clutch master cylinder. I will definitely need a peddle assembly thats for sure, but I guess that shouldn't be too hard to get second hand. Should be no issues eventually with the parking brake. Already fitted new barking brakes when I fitted the Wilwood discs on the rear. I just need the other missing parts to finish the system (which I have found and just need to get shipped over).

09-06-2016, 03:28 PM	#9
vince1 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Calgary Alberta Posts: 1,170	Re: Auto To Manual Swap Is a T10 even strong enough to put behind a 454? I cringe at the thought of that set up.

09-06-2016, 04:32 PM	#10
MacQuigley Registered User Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Scotland Posts: 737	Re: Auto To Manual Swap My dad's been running them as a pair for 20 years and never had the slightest glitch.

09-06-2016, 05:12 PM	#12
MacQuigley Registered User Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Scotland Posts: 737	Re: Auto To Manual Swap Cheers Ron. I know its never been thrashed. While my dad has on occasion put the peddle to the metal, or in this case the peddle to the fibre glass he has never abused it. He never really had to as his Cobra is so light the driver train easily shifts it.

09-06-2016, 05:15 PM	#13
padresag Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Sidney,b.c. Posts: 4,425	Re: Auto To Manual Swap they were orig frt mounted at the timing cover and on either side of the bellhousing and I gather that is all lost to you. fabricate eng side mounts and use the rear trans mounting. that will also free up room at the front of the engine for ps pump bracket mounting if you go for p/s ron

09-06-2016, 05:21 PM	#15
MacQuigley Registered User Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Scotland Posts: 737	Re: Auto To Manual Swap We will be checking both it and the engine out when my dad takes them out the Cobra, before he drops in his 509.

09-06-2016, 05:32 PM	#16
padresag Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Sidney,b.c. Posts: 4,425	Re: Auto To Manual Swap pretty nice to get hand me downs like that. ron

09-06-2016, 05:43 PM	#17
MacQuigley Registered User Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Scotland Posts: 737	Re: Auto To Manual Swap Absolutely Ron. He has had a rough last 12 months and decided just to go for it and do the work to it that he's wanted to do for a few years. His generosity is allowing me to build a much better truck far faster than I otherwise would have been able to had I had to buy a new motor small or big block. Mind you he will take his pound of flesh for it, he always does, but in truth if be helping him with the new motor anyway. Looking forward to seeing his Cobra with his nice new aluminium 509 in it. I didn't help him build it 30 years ago as I was 21 with other things on my mind. Always regretted that. Now I can make up for that a bit.



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