Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

superhondaz50 · 02-16-2018, 03:30 PM

So I'm putting my engine together, and was planning on reusing parts from the old one. It had a short water pump, so I bought another Weiand short water pump. I'm also installing a Vintage Air AC, so I have a short passenger side bracket for that. So first problem, the water pump pulley is a 3 groove and does not fit the Weiand short pump, nor does it come close to aligning with the 3 groove crank pulley. The crank pulley looks weird, and the power steering pump bracket might be for a long pump but am not sure. The alternator bracket looks ok but am still not sure if it is for a short pump.

So to sum it up, I think I need to find:
1. A new 3 groove short pump crank pulley
2. A 2 groove short pump water pump pulley
3. A short pump power steering bracket and pulley

Please take a look at my pics and tell me what you think.

**HO455** · 02-16-2018, 03:34 PM

Oh there they are.

**Rickysnickers** · 02-16-2018, 04:45 PM

That alternator bracket looks weird. It has your alternator right up next to the valve cover and it appears to not give you a lot of adjustment either.

superhondaz50 · 02-16-2018, 06:03 PM

Ya, it'll move further away about 1"

zosoppp · 02-16-2018, 07:20 PM

I have a '70 C10 with a 350 and short water pump and this is what my alternator bracket looks like too.

The older 10DN alternators had a "dent" in the rear for more adjustment clearance against the valve cover.

(not the original 350, the center-bolt valve covers are also more in the way than the original valve covers probably were).

zosoppp · 02-16-2018, 07:26 PM

found another shot.
note there is a single pulley on the crank and water pump/fan which drives the alternator then a gap and a double pulley which drives the P/S (front groove for the p/s).

I don't have A/C so can't comment on how that would alter the system.

**CC69Rat** · 02-16-2018, 07:54 PM

Alan Grove - they make brackets to reposition your alternator, vintage air comp, etc. That's what I used on my truck.

superhondaz50 · 02-16-2018, 08:13 PM

I think I'm happy with the alternator. Its the weiand pump o think is the issue, it seems to extend out further than the old short pump

Andy4639 · 02-16-2018, 08:24 PM

To start it looks like the water pump isn't a short one at all. It may be but mine I couldn't fit my hand between it and the motor. Yours looks to have a bunch of room.

Here are pictures of my old short block stuff.
Look at the first picture, It is very close to the engine.

superhondaz50 · 02-16-2018, 08:42 PM

It's most definitely a short, I have about 1/16" clearance behind the pump and the timing cover. Also, I should point out, the groove on the crank pulley sits under the water pump and seems useless, I'm very lost on this setup...

Livrat · 02-16-2018, 09:10 PM

Your crank pulleys, water pump, alternator setup and power steering pump brackets all look correct, To me it appears that the water pump pulley is incorrect and your power steering pump is later model with a press on pulley instead of the original bolt on style, (not sure if any press on pulleys have the correct depth)

superhondaz50 · 02-17-2018, 12:27 AM

Ok, is there anyway to use that press on pump? I was figuring the water pump pull was wrong, but even with the pulley closest to the pump, it is still way off from the crank pulley. Is it possible to have the wrong balancer causing a spacing issue? The one I have on is a brand new dorman one.

Here are some pics showing the misalignment.

superhondaz50 · 02-17-2018, 12:55 AM

Looking at your guys pics is making me think the harmonic balancer is wonky. I couldn't see Weiand putting out an out of spec part. So I'm thinking the balancer is either the wrong one or pushed in to far if that's even possible.

toolboxchev · 02-17-2018, 04:48 AM

X2 on that!

I had a buddy tell me about that one when I rebuilt my engine. It easily redo able.

superhondaz50 · 02-17-2018, 10:23 AM

Spent a few hours researching last night, I don't see how a balancer could be wrong. I think it's the expensive Weiand pump. I may have to trash it and get a cheapo to use air and power steering.

Andy4639 · 02-17-2018, 02:31 PM

Look at these pictures. They all show the balancer sticking out from the timing tab. Yours look flush.
Plus you have a 3 pulley on the water pump...why? You only need 2.

superhondaz50 · 02-17-2018, 04:08 PM

3 pulley was from the original block. Are there different types of balancers other than diameter differences? Maybe my timing tab just sticks further out?

Andy4639 · 02-17-2018, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superhondaz50

3 pulley was from the original block. Are there different types of balancers other than diameter differences? Maybe my timing tab just sticks further out?

That I can't answer.

superhondaz50 · 02-17-2018, 06:02 PM

Well then I think we're all lost haha

superhondaz50 · 02-17-2018, 06:20 PM

Ok, sooo, it's my balancer, the one I got sent is part number 594-121, it's for a Chevy truck, but a 96+ truck. I need 594-002, that's for trucks up to 95. So I'll order the new balancer and go from there.

dave`12 · 02-18-2018, 08:33 AM

Just something to consider: what about finding a donor vehicle at the junk yard and getting all the pulleys etc. from one vehicle as a package that you know is designed to work together and will work?

It may seem like overkill, but it would fix the problem once and for all and make everything factory.

superhondaz50 · 02-18-2018, 11:37 AM

I just ordered billet specialties short pump pulley set, and the correct balancer. Should be GTG.

superhondaz50 · 02-23-2018, 11:25 AM

Well... With the new balancer, all matching short pump pulleys, the crank and water pump pulley are still misaligned. I'm guessing the balance, for whatever reason on this crate motor, sets in deeper than it should. I ordered a crank pulley shim kit so I'm just gonna shim the piss out of everything until it all lines up.

02-16-2018, 03:30 PM	#1
superhondaz50 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Behind the Taco Bell dumpster Posts: 296	Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! So I'm putting my engine together, and was planning on reusing parts from the old one. It had a short water pump, so I bought another Weiand short water pump. I'm also installing a Vintage Air AC, so I have a short passenger side bracket for that. So first problem, the water pump pulley is a 3 groove and does not fit the Weiand short pump, nor does it come close to aligning with the 3 groove crank pulley. The crank pulley looks weird, and the power steering pump bracket might be for a long pump but am not sure. The alternator bracket looks ok but am still not sure if it is for a short pump. So to sum it up, I think I need to find: 1. A new 3 groove short pump crank pulley 2. A 2 groove short pump water pump pulley 3. A short pump power steering bracket and pulley Please take a look at my pics and tell me what you think.

02-16-2018, 03:34 PM	#2
HO455 Post Whore Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 11,608	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! Oh there they are. __________________ Thanks to Bob and Jeanie and everyone else at Superior Performance for all their great help. RIP Bob Parks. 1967 Burban (the WMB),1988 S10 Blazer (the Stink10 II),1969 GTO (the Goat), 1970 Javelin, 1952 F2 Ford OHC six 4X4, 29 Model A, 72 Firebird (the DBP Bird). 85 Alfa Romeo If it breaks I didn't want it in the first place The WMB repair thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=698377

02-16-2018, 04:45 PM	#3
Rickysnickers Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Eagle, ID Posts: 3,137	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! That alternator bracket looks weird. It has your alternator right up next to the valve cover and it appears to not give you a lot of adjustment either.

02-16-2018, 06:03 PM	#4
superhondaz50 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Behind the Taco Bell dumpster Posts: 296	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! Ya, it'll move further away about 1"

02-16-2018, 07:20 PM	#5
zosoppp Registered User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lincoln Park, NJ Posts: 193	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! I have a '70 C10 with a 350 and short water pump and this is what my alternator bracket looks like too. The older 10DN alternators had a "dent" in the rear for more adjustment clearance against the valve cover. (not the original 350, the center-bolt valve covers are also more in the way than the original valve covers probably were). Attached Images __________________ 1970 C10 LWB 350SBC, SM330 Muncie (not saginaw SM326) (on tree), 3.07 open (assumed), PS, PB, Idiot lights

02-16-2018, 07:26 PM	#6
zosoppp Registered User Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Lincoln Park, NJ Posts: 193	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! found another shot. note there is a single pulley on the crank and water pump/fan which drives the alternator then a gap and a double pulley which drives the P/S (front groove for the p/s). I don't have A/C so can't comment on how that would alter the system. Attached Images __________________ 1970 C10 LWB 350SBC, SM330 Muncie (not saginaw SM326) (on tree), 3.07 open (assumed), PS, PB, Idiot lights

02-16-2018, 07:54 PM	#7
CC69Rat Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Chattanooga TN Posts: 6,224	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! Alan Grove - they make brackets to reposition your alternator, vintage air comp, etc. That's what I used on my truck. Attached Images __________________ Chad 1967 C10 SWB - Project Savannah - 6.0/4L80 Currently underway 1968 C10 SWB - TOTY 2018, 50th Anniversary Tribute Project * Sold * Pride and Joy 1986 Silverado Short Fleet - Scarlet Sold 1985 Silverado Short Fleet Sold 2022 Jeep Gladiator Mojave 2001 Jeep Cherokee XJ 4x4 - Lifted, Built 1992 Jeep Cherokee XJ 4x4 - Lifted 2013 Honda Accord EX-L v6 Coupe 6spd (wife's ride)

02-16-2018, 08:13 PM	#8
superhondaz50 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Behind the Taco Bell dumpster Posts: 296	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! I think I'm happy with the alternator. Its the weiand pump o think is the issue, it seems to extend out further than the old short pump

02-16-2018, 08:24 PM	#9
Andy4639 Old member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Liberty, & Garden City S.C. , U.S. Posts: 19,945	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! To start it looks like the water pump isn't a short one at all. It may be but mine I couldn't fit my hand between it and the motor. Yours looks to have a bunch of room. Here are pictures of my old short block stuff. Look at the first picture, It is very close to the engine. __________________ 1971 LWB Custom, 6.0LS & 4L80E, Speedhut.com GPS speedometer & gauges with A/C. 20" Boss 338's Grey wheels 4 wheel disc brakes. My Driver Seeing the USA in a 71 Upstate SC GM Truck Club 2013,14 and 2016 Hot Rod Pour Tour http://upstategmtrucks.com/ Get out and drive the truck this summer and have some fun! It sucks not being able to hear! LWB trucks rule, if you don't think so measure your SWB! After talking to tech support at Air Lift I have found out that the kit I need is 60811. Per the measurements I gave them. Ride height of truck inside spring and inside diameter of springs.

02-16-2018, 08:42 PM	#10
superhondaz50 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Behind the Taco Bell dumpster Posts: 296	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! It's most definitely a short, I have about 1/16" clearance behind the pump and the timing cover. Also, I should point out, the groove on the crank pulley sits under the water pump and seems useless, I'm very lost on this setup...

02-16-2018, 09:10 PM	#11
Livrat Member #1049 Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Troy Montana Posts: 3,940	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! Your crank pulleys, water pump, alternator setup and power steering pump brackets all look correct, To me it appears that the water pump pulley is incorrect and your power steering pump is later model with a press on pulley instead of the original bolt on style, (not sure if any press on pulleys have the correct depth) Attached Images

02-17-2018, 12:27 AM	#12
superhondaz50 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Behind the Taco Bell dumpster Posts: 296	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! Ok, is there anyway to use that press on pump? I was figuring the water pump pull was wrong, but even with the pulley closest to the pump, it is still way off from the crank pulley. Is it possible to have the wrong balancer causing a spacing issue? The one I have on is a brand new dorman one. Here are some pics showing the misalignment.

02-17-2018, 12:55 AM	#13
superhondaz50 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Behind the Taco Bell dumpster Posts: 296	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! Looking at your guys pics is making me think the harmonic balancer is wonky. I couldn't see Weiand putting out an out of spec part. So I'm thinking the balancer is either the wrong one or pushed in to far if that's even possible.

02-17-2018, 04:48 AM	#14
toolboxchev Registered User Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: 2nd left past the stump on a dirt road. Posts: 2,629	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! X2 on that! I had a buddy tell me about that one when I rebuilt my engine. It easily redo able.

02-17-2018, 10:23 AM	#15
superhondaz50 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Behind the Taco Bell dumpster Posts: 296	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! Spent a few hours researching last night, I don't see how a balancer could be wrong. I think it's the expensive Weiand pump. I may have to trash it and get a cheapo to use air and power steering.



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02-17-2018, 02:31 PM	#16
Andy4639 Old member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Liberty, & Garden City S.C. , U.S. Posts: 19,945	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! Look at these pictures. They all show the balancer sticking out from the timing tab. Yours look flush. Plus you have a 3 pulley on the water pump...why? You only need 2. __________________ 1971 LWB Custom, 6.0LS & 4L80E, Speedhut.com GPS speedometer & gauges with A/C. 20" Boss 338's Grey wheels 4 wheel disc brakes. My Driver Seeing the USA in a 71 Upstate SC GM Truck Club 2013,14 and 2016 Hot Rod Pour Tour http://upstategmtrucks.com/ Get out and drive the truck this summer and have some fun! It sucks not being able to hear! LWB trucks rule, if you don't think so measure your SWB! After talking to tech support at Air Lift I have found out that the kit I need is 60811. Per the measurements I gave them. Ride height of truck inside spring and inside diameter of springs.

02-17-2018, 04:08 PM	#17
superhondaz50 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Behind the Taco Bell dumpster Posts: 296	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! 3 pulley was from the original block. Are there different types of balancers other than diameter differences? Maybe my timing tab just sticks further out?

02-17-2018, 06:02 PM	#19
superhondaz50 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Behind the Taco Bell dumpster Posts: 296	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! Well then I think we're all lost haha

02-17-2018, 06:20 PM	#20
superhondaz50 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Behind the Taco Bell dumpster Posts: 296	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! Ok, sooo, it's my balancer, the one I got sent is part number 594-121, it's for a Chevy truck, but a 96+ truck. I need 594-002, that's for trucks up to 95. So I'll order the new balancer and go from there.

02-18-2018, 08:33 AM	#21
dave`12 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Lake Placid florida Posts: 599	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! Just something to consider: what about finding a donor vehicle at the junk yard and getting all the pulleys etc. from one vehicle as a package that you know is designed to work together and will work? It may seem like overkill, but it would fix the problem once and for all and make everything factory.

02-18-2018, 11:37 AM	#22
superhondaz50 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Behind the Taco Bell dumpster Posts: 296	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! I just ordered billet specialties short pump pulley set, and the correct balancer. Should be GTG.

02-23-2018, 11:25 AM	#23
superhondaz50 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Behind the Taco Bell dumpster Posts: 296	Re: Help me figure these dang pulleys and mounts! Well... With the new balancer, all matching short pump pulleys, the crank and water pump pulley are still misaligned. I'm guessing the balance, for whatever reason on this crate motor, sets in deeper than it should. I ordered a crank pulley shim kit so I'm just gonna shim the piss out of everything until it all lines up.

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