Aftermarket Tail Lamps, Turn Signal Issues

[testerdahl]

Hello,

I have an odd-ball kind of question for anyone. I've been working on getting my turn signals to work on my 1962. It has a Braden aftermarket bumper from 1960s that I had to tear out the old lights and replace with LEDs.

After tearing apart the wiring and looking at wiring diagrams, I've got the lights to work, but not how they are supposed to.

Here's what I mean. Moving the switch to the driver's side turn signal causes the front AND rear lights to come on. The front flashes, the flasher cube clicks and the rear turns on and stays solid. Moving the switch the middle causes both rear lights to come on and stay solid. Moving the switch to the passenger side causes the rear light to come on and stay solid. I don't have a front bulb in the passenger side at the moment. The flasher cube doesn't click on this position.

I've checked and I have constant power to the switch for the white wire and both wires from the rear tail lights, but no power for the front lights until I move the switch. I can't for the life of me figure out why that is. Those rear lights should work the same as the front.

The rear brake lights work perfectly (tail and pushing in the brake).

New parts - light switch, brake switch, turn signal switch, flasher cube, fuses and wiring from cab to the rear lights.

I've checked the wires to the starter switch. They are all tight.

Thoughts?

[testerdahl]

One of the issues maybe is the new light has 2 wires instead of the single from the old. I connected one wire, the black as shown in the pic, to the fuse panel. The red goes to the tail lamp stop switch.

[Clyde65]

Do you have an appropriate wiring diagram for your truck?

Also make sure everything is grounded properly at rear and front.

[testerdahl]

Originally Posted by Clyde65

Do you have an appropriate wiring diagram for your truck?

Also make sure everything is grounded properly at rear and front.

I mostly have the right wiring diagram. I found a '64 online and used that. I've traced every wire and removed all the black electrical tape holding them together to make tracing easier. I think I have that nailed down.

I've added 3 grounds to the truck and the rear lights are grounded to a screw. The lights work, so I'm thinking the ground is good.

[testerdahl]

I should add the rear lights stay on even after taking the key out of the ignition. Only way I was able to turn them off was by removing the electrical plug attached to the turn signal switch. I got power baby! LOL.

[ray_mcavoy]

I don't think you have the new lights connected to the correct wires in your truck.

If the new LED lights only have 2 wires, the black will most likely be ground and red will be power. But with only 2 wires on each light, you won't be able to use them as combination tail/stop/turn lights. Instead, you will have to use one pair for tail lights and use the other pair for stop/turn lights.

To do that, you would need to connect all of the black wires on the new lights to ground. Then connect the red wires on the pair of lights that is being used as the tail lights to the truck's tail light wire (black for '62 or brown for later years).

Connecting the brake lights directly to the output of the brake light switch will bypass the turn signal switch and prevent those lights from flashing when signaling to make a turn. Instead, you need to have the output of the brake light switch running to the turn signal switch. Then connect the red wires on the pair of lights being used for brake/turn to the rear outputs from the turn signal switch. Those wires are violet (purple) and pink for '62 (or yellow & green for later years).

[testerdahl]

Originally Posted by ray_mcavoy

I don't think you have the new lights connected to the correct wires in your truck.

If the new LED lights only have 2 wires, the black will most likely be ground and red will be power. But with only 2 wires on each light, you won't be able to use them as combination tail/stop/turn lights. Instead, you will have to use one pair for tail lights and use the other pair for stop/turn lights.

To do that, you would need to connect all of the black wires on the new lights to ground. Then connect the red wires on the pair of lights that is being used as the tail lights to the truck's tail light wire (black for '62 or brown for later years).

Connecting the brake lights directly to the output of the brake light switch will bypass the turn signal switch and prevent those lights from flashing when signaling to make a turn. Instead, you need to have the output of the brake light switch running to the turn signal switch. Then connect the red wires on the pair of lights being used for brake/turn to the rear outputs from the turn signal switch. Those wires are violet (purple) and pink for '62 (or yellow & green for later years).

Wow thanks! I’ll take a look tomorrow.

[testerdahl]

Originally Posted by ray_mcavoy

I don't think you have the new lights connected to the correct wires in your truck.

If the new LED lights only have 2 wires, the black will most likely be ground and red will be power. But with only 2 wires on each light, you won't be able to use them as combination tail/stop/turn lights. Instead, you will have to use one pair for tail lights and use the other pair for stop/turn lights.

To do that, you would need to connect all of the black wires on the new lights to ground. Then connect the red wires on the pair of lights that is being used as the tail lights to the truck's tail light wire (black for '62 or brown for later years).

Connecting the brake lights directly to the output of the brake light switch will bypass the turn signal switch and prevent those lights from flashing when signaling to make a turn. Instead, you need to have the output of the brake light switch running to the turn signal switch. Then connect the red wires on the pair of lights being used for brake/turn to the rear outputs from the turn signal switch. Those wires are violet (purple) and pink for '62 (or yellow & green for later years).

I just took a look and I have 3 wires for the new LED brake/tail lights and 2 wires for the LED turn signals. I ran the black and red from the LED brake/tail lights to the cab and grounded the other wire. Similar with the LED turn signals - one wire to the cabin and one wire to ground.

I'm assuming that changes the direction given above, right?

[ray_mcavoy]

Originally Posted by testerdahl

I just took a look and I have 3 wires for the new LED brake/tail lights and 2 wires for the LED turn signals. I ran the black and red from the LED brake/tail lights to the cab and grounded the other wire. Similar with the LED turn signals - one wire to the cabin and one wire to ground.

I'm assuming that changes the direction given above, right?

Yes, that does change things a bit. The LED lights with 3 wires likely use: white=ground, black=tail, and red=brake. That is a fairly common color code for lights but it might not be a bad idea to check with the manufacturer / supplier just to make sure.

In any case, you should have the following wires in your truck that can be used to power the new lights:

Tail light feed: for '62 this would be a black wire that comes from the headlight switch. It should only be live when the headlight switch is pulled out (to either 1st or 2nd detent). You can connect this to the black wire on the 3-wire LED lights.

Brake light feed: for '62 this would be a natural/white colored wire that runs from the brake light switch to the turn signal switch. Any lights you power from this wire will only come on when you push the brake pedal. And they will not flash with the turn signals.

Left rear turn / brake: for '62 this would be a pink wire that comes from the turn signal switch. Any light you power from this wire should come on when you push the brake pedal. And it should flash when you flip the turn signal switch to signal a left turn.

Right rear turn / brake: for '62 this would be a violet (purple) wire that comes from the turn signal switch. Any light you power from this wire should come on when you push the brake pedal. And it should flash when you flip the turn signal switch to signal a right turn.

Note that the turn signal switch has a separate set of contacts for the front & rear turn signals. That allows the rear turn signals to be combined with the brake lights (and not have the front turn signals light up when you hit the brakes). So if you are still having problems with the rear turn signals not working, you might need to do some testing/troubleshooting of the turn signal switch to make sure it's working okay. That can be done by using a test light to check the pink & violet wires at the turn signal switch.

Also note that the original style electro-mechanical flashers require a minimum amount of current to be drawn through the circuit in order to heat up the internal bi-metalic strip that opens the contacts, then cools and closes the contacts again, to make the lights flash. So without a bulb in the front passenger side, the LEDs in back don't draw enough current to activate the flasher when you flip the turn signal switch to that side.

[testerdahl]

Update: I've checked all the wiring and it is all correct. I've spoken with other people and now concluded I need an LED flasher cube. I found a good article on Memotronics with an associated product. It says I can use the flasher with a mix of LED and regular bulbs. Order placed today. I'll update after I install it.

http://www.memotronics.com/2-prong-e...-round-25-amp/

[rvrfoot]

I had to get one for mine.

[testerdahl]

Originally Posted by ray_mcavoy

Yes, that does change things a bit. The LED lights with 3 wires likely use: white=ground, black=tail, and red=brake. That is a fairly common color code for lights but it might not be a bad idea to check with the manufacturer / supplier just to make sure.

In any case, you should have the following wires in your truck that can be used to power the new lights:

Tail light feed: for '62 this would be a black wire that comes from the headlight switch. It should only be live when the headlight switch is pulled out (to either 1st or 2nd detent). You can connect this to the black wire on the 3-wire LED lights.

Brake light feed: for '62 this would be a natural/white colored wire that runs from the brake light switch to the turn signal switch. Any lights you power from this wire will only come on when you push the brake pedal. And they will not flash with the turn signals.

Left rear turn / brake: for '62 this would be a pink wire that comes from the turn signal switch. Any light you power from this wire should come on when you push the brake pedal. And it should flash when you flip the turn signal switch to signal a left turn.

Right rear turn / brake: for '62 this would be a violet (purple) wire that comes from the turn signal switch. Any light you power from this wire should come on when you push the brake pedal. And it should flash when you flip the turn signal switch to signal a right turn.

Note that the turn signal switch has a separate set of contacts for the front & rear turn signals. That allows the rear turn signals to be combined with the brake lights (and not have the front turn signals light up when you hit the brakes). So if you are still having problems with the rear turn signals not working, you might need to do some testing/troubleshooting of the turn signal switch to make sure it's working okay. That can be done by using a test light to check the pink & violet wires at the turn signal switch.

Also note that the original style electro-mechanical flashers require a minimum amount of current to be drawn through the circuit in order to heat up the internal bi-metalic strip that opens the contacts, then cools and closes the contacts again, to make the lights flash. So without a bulb in the front passenger side, the LEDs in back don't draw enough current to activate the flasher when you flip the turn signal switch to that side.

After a long few months of holidays and winter, I'm finally get back to this. I did indeed get my LED flasher cube and I'm still having difficulty.

Today, I tore apart the wiring harness and re-wired it to the new turn signal switch. Using my power probe, I was able to confirm each wire is grounded correctly. Also, I checked the grounding screw on the LED flasher cube and that's working.

Using my wiring diagram, I confirmed I have the left and rear turn signals wired to their appropriate pink/violet connections. I also have the black wire from the headlight switch connected directly to a black wire from the rear lamps.

This leaves only the white wire. Following your directions, I connected it to natural/white colored wire from the brake light switch and the turn signal switch. I got nothing.

Previously, I was able to get the clicker to work wired the other way - connecting the white wire to the orange wire running from the stop lamp switch to the fuse box. After this was connected, I was able to use jumper wires from the yellow wire into the turn signal switch and connecting to any of the other turn signal wires. Granted it would click, but I got all sorts of odd results from the lights. Mainly never could get the driver's side to flash and could only get the driver's front light to work. BTW, I did put a bulb in the passenger side. I'd also get the rear pass to flash on both left/right turn signal settings.

Do you or anybody else have any thoughts?

[ray_mcavoy]

Originally Posted by testerdahl

... This leaves only the white wire. Following your directions, I connected it to natural/white colored wire from the brake light switch and the turn signal switch. I got nothing. ...

Sorry, my earlier description might not have been clear enough. When I was describing the white/natural wire, I was only referring to the factory wire that connects from the brake light to the turn signal switch. I didn't mean to imply that you should be connecting the white wire(s) from your new lights to this white wire.

Originally Posted by testerdahl

Previously, I was able to get the clicker to work wired the other way - connecting the white wire to the orange wire running from the stop lamp switch to the fuse box. After this was connected, I was able to use jumper wires from the yellow wire into the turn signal switch and connecting to any of the other turn signal wires. Granted it would click, but I got all sorts of odd results from the lights. Mainly never could get the driver's side to flash and could only get the driver's front light to work. BTW, I did put a bulb in the passenger side. I'd also get the rear pass to flash on both left/right turn signal settings.

Have you checked with the manufacturer of the new lights to see if they can give you any info on the wire color code they're using. As I mentioned earlier, a 3-wire hookup with black, red, and white wires will often use the white as ground. So there is a good chance that the white wires on your new lights should be connected to ground.

Do you or anybody else have any thoughts?[/QUOTE]

[The Rocknrod]

My LED rear tail lights have two wires. The Body or Housing is the Ground.
One of the wires is lights on, the other is Brake/Turn.

[testerdahl]

Originally Posted by ray_mcavoy

Sorry, my earlier description might not have been clear enough. When I was describing the white/natural wire, I was only referring to the factory wire that connects from the brake light to the turn signal switch. I didn't mean to imply that you should be connecting the white wire(s) from your new lights to this white wire.

Ok, so I should leave this wire alone?

Originally Posted by ray_mcavoy

Have you checked with the manufacturer of the new lights to see if they can give you any info on the wire color code they're using. As I mentioned earlier, a 3-wire hookup with black, red, and white wires will often use the white as ground. So there is a good chance that the white wires on your new lights should be connected to ground.

The difficulty is I'm not entirely sure where I put them. It has been quite a while. My guess if you are correct. I found this online and I believe these are the lights: "(white) ground, (black) tail and (red) stop / turn signal functions."

I'd have to double check, but I believe I have indeed used the white to ground. My white wire in the cabin is just extra wire butt plugged to the existing wire. I'm not sure why my photos didn't upload. I'll attach them.

[testerdahl]

Also, I just looked again at Amazon and it turns out that yes, those are my lights. It now says I purchased them in October, 2016.

And you can see from the picture, I have a red wire coming into the cabin that is butt plugged into a white wire. I think I'll cut this and use red wire to maintain my sanity.

This means I need to connect the red/white wire to something.

[testerdahl]

Originally Posted by The Rocknrod

My LED rear tail lights have two wires. The Body or Housing is the Ground.
One of the wires is lights on, the other is Brake/Turn.

First, the truck looks amazing. Second, I wish I had that simple of a setup!

[ray_mcavoy]

Originally Posted by testerdahl

Ok, so I should leave this wire alone?

Yes, for that white/natural wire inside the cab, just leave that in it's factory configuration ... running directly from the brake light switch to the turn signal switch with nothing else spliced into it.

Originally Posted by testerdahl

The difficulty is I'm not entirely sure where I put them. It has been quite a while. My guess if you are correct. I found this online and I believe these are the lights: "(white) ground, (black) tail and (red) stop / turn signal functions."

Yeah, that seems to be a fairly common color code for a lot of universal truck lights so there's a good chance that's how they're configured.

[testerdahl]

Originally Posted by ray_mcavoy

Yes, for that white/natural wire inside the cab, just leave that in it's factory configuration ... running directly from the brake light switch to the turn signal switch with nothing else spliced into it.

Just to be sure, if I don’t hook up the red brake light wire, how does the brake light up?

[ray_mcavoy]

Originally Posted by testerdahl

Just to be sure, if I don’t hook up the red brake light wire, how does the brake light up?

When the turn signal switch is in the center position, it should be feeding power (from the brake light switch) out to both left & right rear lights via the pink & violet wires. And when the turn signal switch is flipped to one side or the other, it automatically over-rides the brake light on the selected side, making it flash for the turn signal.

So if you hook the red brake light wires from your new lights into the factory pink & violet wires, it should give you factory-style combined brake & turn signals.

But if you wanted to have a dedicated set of brake lights (that do not flash as turn signals), then you could splice the red wires from those lights into that factory white/natural wire that connects the brake light switch to the turn signal switch.

[Ken Cook]

Those look like the 4" round lights we use on the back of our wreckers.. The amber one looks like a marker light.
The 4" will have 3 wires STT (Stop, tail, Turn) and the smaller, amber will have 2 wires.
Use a test light with all lights disconnected and see which wires on the truck light the tester with tail lights and stop/blinkers.

Hook the amber positive to the tail light wire and the tail light wire on the STT red light together. This will not make the amber light flash but it will be on with the headlights on. You may be able to hook the amber positive to the Stop wire instead and then it would blink and show brakes but would not function as a tail/marker Light.

You may want to go to the local truck parts store (here locally I use Lake Charles Truck Parts) and see if they sell a STT in the smaller light.

Most of these use a rubber grommet to hold the light in the bumper cut out.

Also be sure of the color codes on the back of the lights. As I remember they do not use the standard red for + and black for -. The guy at the parts store should be able to tell you about the color code or sometimes it is in raised letters on the back of the light.

Weather or not they are mounted with a rubber grommet, the wiring should be the same as I described.

Have you replaced the missing bulb in the front? That can cause it not to blink.

FYI, running 12v to the 2 wires (1 at a time) on the new lights make the lights come on, one simply makes them come on brighter than the other. Take them out and walk over to your battery and check them out of the system. You can figure the wireing out that way. And I think the ground is white.

You should replace the wire nuts with crimp connectors. I wish you were near me, I hate to work on wiring but I have some experience with it. It easy to be chasing your tail when it is a simple fix.