55.2-59 Question about 73 Suspension Swap on 58

[JimDirt]

A friend just told me that a guy in the area who does all sorts of swaps and custom work on older Chevy's (I have seen his work , its top notch) told him that if I got a 73 2wd 1/2 or 3/4 ton Chevy , that the front suspension would literally "bolt on" to my stock 58 frame by just drilling holes , and I would end up with stock Chevy independent front suspension without having to graft something there , and have all stock Chevy parts that are readily accessible at any auto parts store , along with the rear end being a direct swap width wise

Any truth to this ??

Should I look for a abandoned 73 to update my suspension ?? (he said 73-74 only , and it only fits 58-59) , as this would be way more cost effective for my budget than doing anything else , and would solve a lot of issues for brake and suspension parts for me , and I could actually start working on the truck and get it back on the road much sooner than I would otherwise be able to , I don't need "fancy" stuff , I just want the front end to be better than my wore out 1/2 turn side to side of the steering wheel to go straight steering box stock stuff I have now ..... All I would have to get is a aftermarket pedal assembly and a steering column (preferably a stock Chevy tilt w/ column shift)

Thanks .... Jim ....

[mr48chev]

No truth at all. Someone showed up on here a year or two ago with some cobbled up mess of a TF that had had a 70 something front crossmember cobbled under it. That thing was a scabbed together mess.

I'd have to go out and measure my 77 Dualie frame but I think right at the axle line it is about 28-1/2 inches outside to outside. When you go out and measure your 58 you will find that the frame is 34 inches wide front to back with no or very little taper. That means it is 5-1/2 to six inches too wide to use with the later crossmember.

Those front ends will almost bolt on the 47/54 frames that are right at 28 inches wide at the axle. The dualie crossmember I have out here is intended to go under the 51 1-1/2 truck that I have that my daughter has laid claim to. She wants a flatbed that looks ready to work but still wants it to ride better and drive better.

The only viable way to use that front end with your frame is to go back under the cab to a point where the frames are close to the same width and cut and splice the rails.
That may be what the guy is doing.

If you wanted to go to 5 lug on 4-3/4 and have good ride and handling and be able to set the height about anywhere you wanted it you might take a look at the Jag XJ6 suspension swap that someone on here did on his TF truck. I'm going to use one that I bought a few years ago on my 48 because the guy who had been building some nifty crossmembers quit building the and I had to reverse my plans again.

It still comes down to how you intend to use the truck when it is done along with the stance you want.

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by JimDirt

I just want the front end to be better than my wore out 1/2 turn side to side of the steering wheel to go straight steering box stock stuff I have now

rebuilt box, king pins, drag link and tie rod ends will fix that
any 45 yr old, 73-74 suspension will need total rebuild or you'll have the same problems
frame swaps are typically not budget friendly unless you have a jy in your back yard

[JimDirt]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

No truth at all. Someone showed up on here a year or two ago with some cobbled up mess of a TF that had had a 70 something front crossmember cobbled under it. That thing was a scabbed together mess.

I'd have to go out and measure my 77 Dualie frame but I think right at the axle line it is about 28-1/2 inches outside to outside. When you go out and measure your 58 you will find that the frame is 34 inches wide front to back with no or very little taper. That means it is 5-1/2 to six inches too wide to use with the later crossmember.

Those front ends will almost bolt on the 47/54 frames that are right at 28 inches wide at the axle. The dualie crossmember I have out here is intended to go under the 51 1-1/2 truck that I have that my daughter has laid claim to. She wants a flatbed that looks ready to work but still wants it to ride better and drive better.

The only viable way to use that front end with your frame is to go back under the cab to a point where the frames are close to the same width and cut and splice the rails.
That may be what the guy is doing.

If you wanted to go to 5 lug on 4-3/4 and have good ride and handling and be able to set the height about anywhere you wanted it you might take a look at the Jag XJ6 suspension swap that someone on here did on his TF truck. I'm going to use one that I bought a few years ago on my 48 because the guy who had been building some nifty crossmembers quit building the and I had to reverse my plans again.

It still comes down to how you intend to use the truck when it is done along with the stance you want.

Thanks for the detailed reply , Basically what I was trying to achieve was a "budget" fix for a wore out steering box , it literally turns half turn each direction to keep the truck straight on the road (it was this way in the 70's) , the box is tightened down as tight as the adjuster goes , and it still has tons of slop , and finding a good box/column is a crapshoot at best , also the brakes are toast , the master had gone bad when my brother who has passed had it after my dad , it sat from 05 with the cap off the master under the floor , it is rusted throughout and I was expecting to have to replace steel as well as rubber lines , along with wheel cylinders , and since the shoes are only 2" wide , they don't really stop all that well so I figured I could scab the parts and go with a aftermarket pedal assembly and mount the master on the firewall , so its nut under the floor anymore

The basic function of the truck will be a weekend driver most likely to haul around my dirt bike to riding places , and just weekend cruising about (rural driving not city cruising) , I plan to keep it somewhat original in the sense it was my dads truck that I rode with him on trips when I was 7 to 15 or so , I am 59 now , so a lot of sentiment , but my dad and I had talked about doing some upgrades mainly for safety and handling , rather than customization , we had talked about a Camaro subframe , or keeping the straight axle and just bettering the steering box and brake system

I like the height for the most part , I was thinking a little lower than stock so when I put on 60 series tires or so , that they would not look small in the opening , so , lower , but not dropped by any means , maybe 2-3 inches at most from stock , I was planning on getting started on this when I first joined this site a few years back , but unfortunately I had some serious health issues , like almost losing my hand , then right after a heart attack with a stent , then lung cancer and removal of a 3rd of my right lung , then in that surgery , having one of my vocal cords paralyzed , that was from Aug of 2016 to Sept of 2017 , for all that , so the truck got put on the backburner and I am just getting back to planning on working on it again , but the budget is very very tight

Basically I have to rebuild the engine (its a 69 350hp 350 that my dad put in it in 69 when it had about 100 miles on it , with about 350.000 miles on it now) , it has a Turbo 400 behind it with the stock rear , it was formerly a 6 cyl 3 on the tree , its a Apache 32 , long bed step side , my plan was to keep it as much like it was when my dad had it with some upgrades , so its easier to drive and safer to stop , other than that , just fixing the rust and glass and interior , and weather stripping that has sat for years in the sun rotting

Since budget is a major factor , I don't want something elaborate and spendy to do , just simple but improved from original is fine , which is why I questioned this "mod" as it was told to me , "its a simple bolt on" , not even using the crossmember , just the A-Arms supposedly bolting onto the frame and your done , kind of description , that is why I asked here , I had never heard of this , and figured if it was that easy , why have I not read about it anywhere , and to find out if anyone had tried it , I figured someone would have said so , or would know if its feasible or not , I don't want a can of worms

I figured if this was not a option then I would just go with a CCP steering box for $300-$400 , or something else if its actually a "bolt on" box , and maybe remove a leaf spring or 3 front and rear , and upgrade the brakes somehow with a power setup on the firewall and a modern brake pedal setup and either wider drums or a simple cheap disk setup (which is why I was hoping this would work and give me all those parts) , and a better column , and call it good for that part of the build

So I guess the CCP box is about my only option for steering improvements by the sounds of it , if keeping the straight axle (kingpins seem to be good and tight), and then figuring out some inexpensive brake upgrade setup , I don't really care whether it is 6 lug or 5 lug , just that parts fit , are a improvement from what is original and worn out and are relatively inexpensive (wrecking yard/craigslist , or EBay stuff for the most part if at all possible) , like another vehicle to swap parts from like I was hoping a 73/74 would have been............. it sucks to be poor and wanting to get this thing back on the road again ....

I was hoping to get it running so my mom could see it going again , but unfortunately she had a heart attack last June , then on Christmas day , she had a stroke , then due to some crappy Dr. decisions , she ended up having complications and died on the 6th of this month , I spent the entire time with her at the hospital right till she died , so now , I just want to get it back on the road before I croak from something ...so this was my "get it running soon" plan .....

[mr48chev]

You can buy the kit that mounts and hooks up the box and buy the box you need locally. That might save a couple hundred.

I wouldn't get carried away removing leaves from the front springs as my 48 is proof that when you do that the springs keep settling until there is no settling left.

They might laugh at you in Weiser but just as the 4x4 brigade has more arch put into springs at the spring shop you can do the reverse and have them flattened out a bit so they don't ride as high but you still have the full spring. It's an old hot rod trick to lower leaf spring rigs.

I'd get a helper to rock the steering wheel back and forth slowly while you laid under the truck and watched the movement of each joint in the steering linkage to see if there is any noticeable slack. A little here, a little there and it all adds up.

Side note is that the steering and suspension in these wants to be greased every thousand miles. that sounds rather often but they really do need to be greased that often.

[JimDirt]

The thing with the springs is it has several , so I figured I could get away with losing a couple without ill effects , at least that was my thought , I remember when I was a kid my dad had the springs re-arched , I am going to say mid 70's , so I would have been in my teens

As far as Steering goes , I know the tires move when turning the wheel , but when it was noticed the worst was while actually driving on a straight road/freeway , then it became really apparent that there was slop in the box itself , as you would have to do a half turn , then the truck would just dart that way , then you would have to counteract , then the truck would dart that way , all in a delayed response , like the turning of the wheel made the slop , then a bump or imperfection in the road made the wheels react and the truck would then move the amount you moved the wheel initially , all that to just stay in your lane and try to go straight , it really wandered bad

I remember driving it around 1974 (I was 14) , I was driving from Ontario Canada to New York (its a long story , and no I did not have a license but my dad was with me) , we were driving into and thru what I remember was Hurricane Andrew , as when we got to Virginia the devastation was everywhere with boats in the streets , etc. ..... anyway , it was all I could do to keep the truck on the road and in my lane , my dad who was used to it , took over driving once we crossed the border , as then he was allowed to drive (again , a long story) , but even he struggled with the slop , I asked him about it then , and he said just before the trip to Canada from California , he had just rebuilt all the front end , including re-arching the springs , ball joints , kingpins , and re-greasing the steering box and tightening down the adjustment screw to try to rid the slop it had before , it was (and still is) tightened as far as the screw would allow , and its still pretty sloppy , it does steer easily with minimal effort at the wheel , but the slop is mostly in the box I would say.....

The truck was last driven in 2005 by my brother who has now passed , when I got the truck in 2015 when he died , I loaded it on a trailer and pulled it the 75 miles to where I live with my 90 Toyota 4x4 , where it is still sitting where I parked it , the only brakes is the E-Brake , and the engine needs cam bearings and the valve guide seals replaced at minimum and has over 300,000 miles on it , so it needs a rebuild

I would like to get the shifter off the floor , so that is why I was thinking of a tilt column , and the steering was a major issue that needs attention along with the brakes

With all that said , I guess the CPP 400 box is the way to go ??? , I do not care if its power or not , as I am keeping the big stock steering wheel , so even if I put on wider tires (60 series or modern equivalent) , I don't think it will be difficult to turn , but I know it does add strain to the components , so not sure about that , which again is why I questioned the 73-74 A-Arm swap , but from what you are saying that now seems to be a farce

So the plan is:

Column Shift from floor shift

Rebuild or replace the box (if its replaced then I would guess the best bet is to replace the column with a modern one *preferably a GM one rather than aftermarket* , if its rebuilt then I could keep the stock column and omit the column shift idea and continue using the floor shift , I just have to find a rebuild kit for the turn signals which got broke at some point

Doing a wiring kit or upgrade of some sort to add a actual fuse box and just a wiring clean up in general , which would depend on what column is used and/or other options done like wipers on the column if that possible

Do some type of brake swap to either wider/modern drums , or some kind of disk conversion , which with either drum or disk I was planning on doing the pedal swap/conversion and Firewall mounted Master and/or booster anyway just to make it easier to maintain (never liked the under floor setup , its too dirty)

The rest will be cosmetic with the exception of rebuilding the engine , which I will do everything except machine work

Does this sound like the way I need to go ?? (remembering this is a very economy minded build/rebuild/upgrade venture) , and these being the best budget friendly things to do ?? ..... or do I do what everyone else does and just find a cheap Camaro subframe and rear end on Craigslist and go that route ?? (I would be able to tack everything , but with my welder I would not feel comfortable with the load bearing welds using my harbor freight wire feed/gas welder) , so I would have to round up a trailer to take it to a welder to complete the welding of the subframe and rear spring perches , etc , I think it would handle the radiator supports and bumper brackets , just not the major structural stuff

So that seems to be my options correct ?? , or is there a cheap easier way to accomplish my needs ??

[dsraven]

here are some ideas for you to use the solid front axle but still upgrade a bit. since you mentioned the steering "darted" to the next lane it makes me think the kingpins were either dry and stiff or worn out so they want to stay where you turn them to. there is an angle built into the steering geometry that is supposed to bring your wheels back to the midline but if the linkage and knuckles etc are tight then it is unable to overcome that resistance so the steering stays where it is aimed, straight or not. personally i would not take any leafs out of the front spring packs. like said above, they will continue to sag until your axle is sitting on the snubbers and/or frame. some dental work may be required shortly after this happens since it could be a rough ride when the suspension bottoms out. possibly a new spring pack with a better arc and/or different configuration of springs in the pack would be a better idea. talk to a spring shop and see what is recommended. to lower the truck a bit and use a stock spring pack, and combine the costing with the other front end work associated with your truck, it may be in your best interests to think about a dropped front axle. that is a whole new axle with the amount of drop you want. exchange I think so you give him your old axle. maybe not. not sure. anyway, if you remove leafs or use a different spring pack to get the truck lower then that will decrease your axle travel before it bottoms out on the frame or snubber. you will end up not wanting to drive the truck because it is always bottoming out. you may be better off putting the money into the drop axle so the axle stays in the same place in relation to the springs and the frame-same amount of suspension travel as the stock axle-except the spindle and wheel are now sitting at a different height so the body sits lower than it used to. remember the rearwill also need to drop a bit in order to match up.

https://droppedaxles.com//

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/0911...ering-upgrade/

anyway, just wanted to give you a heads up to try and combine your jobs/mods/rebuilding to get the best bang for your buck. better to buy kits with other "wanted" items than to buy more single use kits

-new king pins/bushings. you can dissassemble and assemble but have a shop install and hone the bushings to fit the pin properly. as mentioned above, these trucks NEED to be greased often. install the grease fittings so they are easily accessed or even install them with some hoses that lead out to a common grease fitting strip so it makes it easy and several fittings are placed in a single location. lotsof highway trucks do this and/or have an automatic greaser installed
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/1947-...Set,37029.html

-check/replace tie rod ends and the tube that connects them

-power steering kit that is the direct replacement and fits in the same basic location as the stock box. this is going to require some work to get the drag link connected properly to the steering so the drag link will likely need replacing as well. get one that is adjustable if it doesn't come with the kit. you will also need a power steering pump and brackets etc but that should all come with the kit as well. best to buy a complete, everything you need, kit. you will also need to shorten the steering column so that would be a great time to replace it if that is your endgame plan. if you grab one from an early chev van the ign will be on the dash like the old truck had. not too common anymore and will likely need some work. if you are ok with ign on the column then a column from an astro van or an s10 may work, especially if you plan on doing some wiring anyway. do a search on here for more info on that and what guys have used for different configurations as far as a used one or buy the new aftermarket one and hope you get quality parts inside

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/powe...traight-axles/

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/1112...olumn-install/

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Ididi...ain,65901.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E215D79tEE

-for a front brake upgrade buy the disc brake kit for your solid axle. watch a few you tubes because there are a few options that may use your old hubs or a new set of hubs. some come with 5 lug hubs and some come with 6 lug hubs. some come as a kit with a power brake booster so that may be the more economical way to go if that is planned anyway. some kits come with a frame mounted power brake unit so ensure you pick the one you want, firewall or frame mounted. ensure to get the right master cylinder in the kit to support the rear brake option you will be using. disc front/drum rear is a different set up than disc/disc. one thing to keep in mind is whether or not the stock wheel will still fit over the new brake set up. newer wheels may be needed if the brake upgrade gets too large.

https://www.tuckersparts.com/Power-D...-FDB-4716.html

-for rear brakes you could simply use the stock rear brakes because larger or wider drum brakes or disc rear brakes would likely be overkill for the intended use. the rear of the truck is pretty light so really big brakes will just skid the back tires. you may want to incorporate an adjustable proportioning valve so the brake bias (how much the rear brakes work compared to the fronts) can be messed with until you get it like you want it. once this is done it is usually not played with again so the valve can be tucked under the truck somewhere
if using the stock rear brakes, check the old parts for wear, especially the backing plates where the shoes contact because they get grooves worn in there and a new set of shoes always wants to drop into that groove. this makes the brakes a little hard to set up and can also be a bit twitchy because they drop in the groove and the return springs have a hard time getting them back out to sit where they should. the other thing you could look at is a whole different axle with a better gear ratio for highway driving, if that interests you, and then do a brake job on that when you install, if required. or simply do a new set of backing plates, shoes, drums, wheel cylinders, hardware kit, axle seals etc as required on your old set up and be done for years to come. all stock parts
for power brakes you can buy a frame mounted vacuum operated brake booster kit as well. it looks like the one in the previous link.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speed...4aAqPVEALw_wcB

some of these may interfere with the manual transmission cross member and clutch linkage because they are built more for the auto trans crowd which would use a cross member mounted behind the trans and out of the way in the pedal linkage area. still do-able though with some work. these frame mounted set ups usually need an external residual valve in the brake lines (some kits include them and some don't) because the master cylinder set up for disc brakes doesn't have a built in residual valve like the old stock drum/drum set up had and the fluid runs back into the master cylinder. not that hard to figure out though. the other way is to install the booster on the firewall as you mentioned but then you would also need to hang a set of pedals from the dash and reinforce the dash/firewall for the extra strain. if doing this yourself check out the pedals/booster from a gmc envoy or chev trailblazer, the set up bolts to a plate that screws to the firewall so it could be modified for your purpose. you wouldn't get a clutch pedal though. if using the manual trans and a firewall mounted pedal set up you will likely need to fab up some clutch linkage of some sort or use the stock, through the floor, clutch pedal if it doesn't interfere with the firewall mounted brake pedal. if buying a kit ensure there is some bracing instructions for the firewall to dash etc

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/1104...ooster-master/

anyway, there are a few ideas, hope it helps. keep us posted. a few pics is always nice. we all love to see what everybody else is working on and sometimes it gets us off the couch and fired up on our own,back burner projects

[JimDirt]

Thanks for the detailed reply dsraven , Although as I had mentioned , when the steering was wandery as I mentioned , my dad literally had just before the trip had the kingpins done , and he himself said it was the box that had all the slop , and that the box was just "wore out" , the truck did get many more miles after that , but the pins were replaced periodically , but not sure at what point that was no longer done , as I know it sat for at least 10 years before my brother got it , and then it was never driven again after 2005 .... that being said , I feel the box is a majority of the steering issues , though I am sure that there is more wear in the kingpins from then to now, ,regardless of when they were replaced , but at the time I had driven it , as my story mentioned , everything was fresh , and the issue was just as bad as it is now , or rather the last time it ran in 2005 , which is why my main focus was to do something with the box itself as a priority ...

The dropped axle seems to be in the $500+ area when all said and done , more likely closer to $700 , with that cost I could easily find a Camaro clip and go that route , and most likely get the rear end along with it for that price , and not be working with almost 60 year old kingpin suspension , which was the main reason for this post , asking about the 73-74 setup feasibility of being "bolt up" as I had been told ...

I figured on the work involved with adding a pedal assembly , and I must have forgot to mention , the tranny is a 1969 Turbo 400 , that matched the 69 350hp 350 that came from a 69 Camaro that was brand new and wrecked (the owners son at the dealer my dad worked at in Glendale Calif in the 60's-70's *Allen Gwynn Chevrolet* totaled the car with only 100 miles on it , wrapping it around a tree , and my dad bought the engine/tranny for $500 from the owner whom he worked for) , so anyway , no need for clutch pedal , and I will be relocating the engine up and forward a bit due to the way it was installed from the GM dealer where my dad had worked , they put it in too low and too far back , as I have learned that the crossmember is slightly different from the 6 cyl to the factory V8 , and this was a 6 cyl. , 3 on the tree truck , so the balancer can not be removed without lifting the engine , and the engine fan was at the bottom of the radiator so it always had cooling issues , ........ so anyway , I got a CCP kit and will be resetting the engine and tranny , which will also mean a longer driveshaft will be needed (its a 1 piece)

For the rear brakes , I guess the stock skinny drums would be fine for stopping power if the fronts were improved , my only concern would be availability of the older shoes , I remember my dad saying he always had to have the new shoes re-arched to fit the drums , don't know if that always had to be done , but I distinctly remember him mentioning that all the time when doing the brakes , so I just figured a more modern readily available type would be better , I believe the stock 6 cyl. rear end is 3.91 (???) if I remember what my dad said , and he averaged 18mpg on the open highway/interstate with that setup ... so I can live with that , though when I rebuild the engine I will be putting the old Duntov 30/30 or similar style cam in it , my dad had a brand new one , but over the years , it disappeared , so a stock 300hp cam was used the last time it was done

I will be looking over the entire front end as far as steering components for tightness , unless I end up finding a Camaro setup at a bargain , but for my uses of the truck , I think the straight axle will do ok , since the 73-74 setup is not a option any longer.... as long as I can get the brakes improved and the steering box rebuilt or replaced with something that is not going to cause other issues

Again , thanks for the detailed info , I will have to look into everything and figure out what the best way to proceed is going to be for me and go from there

[dsraven]

if contemplating a camaro clip also look into the bolt on ifs kits. you don't need to cut the frame up that way. no guess work on the angles etc. grab a digital level and install. you will need a new column as well or some work on the original because it is part of the old steering gear box. there is a write up on here somewhere showing how to cut and install a bearing into the new shorter column tube. or just get a quality column (there are horror stories about the cheap knock off and the plastic internal parts breaking).
anyhow. ask lots of questions once you decide which route you wanna go and you will get lots of answers.

http://www.scottshotrods.com/1955-19...s-bolt-on-ifs/

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=568962

http://flatout-engineering.com/chevr...es-1955-front/

if you are a welder or can tack weld to be ready for a hired welder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyYBabb8f9I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDvfBYilgYw

[mr48chev]

One thing to remember, any clip from a donor is going to have a complete rebuild and need new ball joints and A arm bushings along with tie rod ends and possibly a rebuilt steering box. The reason most of those cars became donor cars is that they were worn out to the point where it wasn't economical to rebuild them as daily drivers.

That and any subframe/frame swap requires a lot of front end sheetmetal work to get things to fit.

[smoking59]

check out e-zchassisswap.com

[JimDirt]

Thanks for all the detailed info everyone , I have a lot of research to do , it seems each thing has its advantages and disadvantages to ponder , so not sure what way to go at this point

As far as going the "clip" route , its just a option right now , as I would like to get the stock stuff working better , which will most likely end up being a CPP box , and some form of OEM GM column , (hopefully the old steering wheel will work with any GM column) , but still not sure what to do with lowering the truck , as I only want 1"-3" from where it is , nothing major , which is why I figured removing just a couple of the multiple springs front/rear would get me that without adding other issues , but its sounding like that might not be the thing to do ....... just seemed like a simple way to achieve a slight drop without needing to replace everything just to gain a slight drop ......hmmmmmm .....

Well at least now I have plenty of possibilities to look into and maybe use some , or a combo of things to accomplish my goals without breaking my minimal budget funds

Hopefully I can figure something out now with all this added information everyone provided .... Thanks again .......