Need advice: LS ENGINE SWAP

[LH Lead-Foot]

Depending on your budget and future use, you can get an analog angle gauge with magnetic base at HF. The sell digital ones that are smaller. My only advise is to use the u-joint caps, file them smooth and flat as many get the hammer treatment during years of service.

With a truck, it can run un-loaded for weeks, then have 15 sheets of drywall the next day. Also, with air bags and drop rear frame members, this too affects the angles.

I spent years fixing problems in shops both small & big. My main disadvantage is not having serious modification skills to make what was not there. I can weld, hammer, shape, heat & beat metal into submission to create and fabricated, and pick up serious sewing skills. I just repaired what was broke or bad, but mainly put things back to new from the day they where sold. I do know what specs are how to avoid vibrations, keeping the life of u-joints, but also the tail shaft bushing from wearing or worse yet. loosing the front pinion bearing. Most frozen u-joints take out that bearing.

There are many good youtube vid's on pinion angle, both professional, off-road and for the modification types. Search and watch some of these, as you will figure out if the dude is dead on and knows his stuff, or just found a hammer and figure to pound u-joints today, while counting beers.

Thanks for you concern with my medical, but all bad. For the better part of my 50's, now ten years in, I have major arthritis in elbows, hands, finger and they don't act like they want to fix them via elbow joint replacement. Actually said "They don't like to do that". Bought a fancy wheel chair sometime ago, maybe I will put a cup holders on it and grease the wheel bearings. Yep, soon, I will be deleting my account here, but IATN and others. I just wanted to finish my C10. Can't pay, don't have the helpers either. Maybe I'will trade my TECH2, MIG and SnapOn / J-Tools to be named later, in for a paint job because I don't think I can hold the gun long enough...it's a day long job. Hell, i can barely get up off a creeper. But, that's the way it goes. Sew the seats, console & door panels, then sell the Juki lock-stitch commercial machine w/alum, oil crankcase. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
So, best of luck. It will work out for you!

[desertdogg]

Originally Posted by LH Lead-Foot

Depending on your budget and future use, you can get an analog angle gauge with magnetic base at HF. The sell digital ones that are smaller. My only advise is to use the u-joint caps, file them smooth and flat as many get the hammer treatment during years of service.

With a truck, it can run un-loaded for weeks, then have 15 sheets of drywall the next day. Also, with air bags and drop rear frame members, this too affects the angles.

I spent years fixing problems in shops both small & big. My main disadvantage is not having serious modification skills to make what was not there. I can weld, hammer, shape, heat & beat metal into submission to create and fabricated, and pick up serious sewing skills. I just repaired what was broke or bad, but mainly put things back to new from the day they where sold. I do know what specs are how to avoid vibrations, keeping the life of u-joints, but also the tail shaft bushing from wearing or worse yet. loosing the front pinion bearing. Most frozen u-joints take out that bearing.

There are many good youtube vid's on pinion angle, both professional, off-road and for the modification types. Search and watch some of these, as you will figure out if the dude is dead on and knows his stuff, or just found a hammer and figure to pound u-joints today, while counting beers.

Thanks for you concern with my medical, but all bad. For the better part of my 50's, now ten years in, I have major arthritis in elbows, hands, finger and they don't act like they want to fix them via elbow joint replacement. Actually said "They don't like to do that". Bought a fancy wheel chair sometime ago, maybe I will put a cup holders on it and grease the wheel bearings. Yep, soon, I will be deleting my account here, but IATN and others. I just wanted to finish my C10. Can't pay, don't have the helpers either. Maybe I'will trade my TECH2, MIG and SnapOn / J-Tools to be named later, in for a paint job because I don't think I can hold the gun long enough...it's a day long job. Hell, i can barely get up off a creeper. But, that's the way it goes. Sew the seats, console & door panels, then sell the Juki lock-stitch commercial machine w/alum, oil crankcase. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
So, best of luck. It will work out for you!

Just got home from work, thanks again for the advise ! I will check out some videos tonight after I finish the rear wiring on my truck. Videos are so much easier for figuring things out. Last night I ordered one of those digital inclinometers on amazon it should be her tomorrow. Best of luck to you and don't give up, there is lots of remedies for arthritis I know probably wont cure completely but might make it better enough to get back into things. Hope you stick around for awhile.

[LH Lead-Foot]

I agree on "Good" video's. There are some Race Team vid's that the tech knows what he is doing, but sometimes, doesn't fit what you need. But look at many and you will find good info. Glad on your digital angle gauge purchase. Tools have become so much better as the price comes down. Ben buying SnapOn since 1970.
I fixed the light on my R450b soldering iron yesterday, that come with 3 tips up to 450 watts. I wore it out. Much to my surprise, SnapOn still sells the 450 watt tip for $30. Happy to have it back as others soldering irons that reach 450 watts are over $450 now. It's only 42 year old and works great on 10 AGW wire...even larger copper eyelets on cables.

Yah, I am in a sad state of mind with elbows after the Dr. had 3 x-rays L & R and right is real bad, although I am left handed. Go figure. He said you have a lot of arthritis and the ulnar nerve maybe trapped, but you need a replacement elbow and i quote" We just don't like to do that"...
This is not the first saw-bones I heard this, as his excuse was there manufactures give the device 10 years of life and only replaced once...So, at age 60 will take your to 70, then new one. But is works loose of wears out, sorry Charlie...you are SOL. Fine.
I just need my lumbar and elbow for 3 more years, then I don't care.

Best of luck on your driveshaft, mounts and u-joint angles.

[desertdogg]

Originally Posted by LH Lead-Foot

I agree on "Good" video's. There are some Race Team vid's that the tech knows what he is doing, but sometimes, doesn't fit what you need. But look at many and you will find good info. Glad on your digital angle gauge purchase. Tools have become so much better as the price comes down. Ben buying SnapOn since 1970.
I fixed the light on my R450b soldering iron yesterday, that come with 3 tips up to 450 watts. I wore it out. Much to my surprise, SnapOn still sells the 450 watt tip for $30. Happy to have it back as others soldering irons that reach 450 watts are over $450 now. It's only 42 year old and works great on 10 AGW wire...even larger copper eyelets on cables.

Yah, I am in a sad state of mind with elbows after the Dr. had 3 x-rays L & R and right is real bad, although I am left handed. Go figure. He said you have a lot of arthritis and the ulnar nerve maybe trapped, but you need a replacement elbow and i quote" We just don't like to do that"...
This is not the first saw-bones I heard this, as his excuse was there manufactures give the device 10 years of life and only replaced once...So, at age 60 will take your to 70, then new one. But is works loose of wears out, sorry Charlie...you are SOL. Fine.
I just need my lumbar and elbow for 3 more years, then I don't care.

Best of luck on your driveshaft, mounts and u-joint angles.

Thanks Lead-foot, looked at a few videos last night and beginning to get the Idea probably need to look at a few more just to get more comfortable. I got my gauge in the mail today so I plan on getting this all figured out this weekend, we'll see what happens. My plan is to get the drive shaft mounted then putting some boards under all four wheels and get some measurements, with gods help my measurements will be spot on if not then I have some work to do.

Your arthritis sounds pretty bad, I have injured my back years ago and now also have some arthritis going on I have also had scoped knee surgery for torn cartiledge and they both hurt as well, oh well this is life I guess but as long as Im still able to move around slow, but steady it wont stop me from getting this done, god willing. I'll post up my progress this weekend and thanks for the encouragement, just wish you were my neighbor so I could coax you over with a beer so you could tell me what Im doing wrong

[LH Lead-Foot]

Hope all works out well. Learning never stops. As for being neighbors, I'm all for it but my glass will have a stronger brown liquid. Ha, Ha!

Thank for the offer and would really like to have someone who wants to learn.

You can only take your dignity, experiences and your knowledge to the grave...and not much else.

I don't mean to be a "Debbie Downer" but having a Dr. tell you...We don't like to do that! What the hell? It's an artificial elbow...it's not an un-tested rocket I built in his back yard while holding a match!

I feel, by experience, I am just being setup for an excuse that will come after my wallet is lighter and he wants to play golf. The guy does hands, elbows and shoulders for a living. I turned 61, not 91.

Best of luck, and I hope I helped a little on a chore a custom builder has to check most of the time, just to be sure. Knowing is better than guessing or finding out when you're in the middle or no where.

Thanks very much for the kind words.

[bigmoe]

Desertdogg the easiest place to measure your engines angle is on the front pulley. Lay a straight piece of wood on the surface, top and bottom, and put your digital angle finder on the wood. Subtract 90 degrees from whatever angle you find and ideally it should equal 3 degrees down.


At the rearend, with the driveshaft off, move the truck so the yoke is up and down. Use the same method with the little piece of wood across the yoke and your angle finder on the wood. Again subtract 90 and it should ideally equal 3 degrees up.

You want weight on the suspension and truck sitting on a level surface. You can put blocks under the wheels like you said as long as they are all the same height.


The best way to think about pinion angles (with one piece driveshafts) is to imagine a straight line going from the center of the front pulley bolt and out the centre of the trans output shaft and continuing to the back of the truck.
Now imagine a line coming straight out the rearend forward. Those two lines should run parralell.

Here: https://www.therangerstation.com/tec...onangles.shtml


Just for reference I was playing around with my engine angle. I shimmed up my trans crossmember 3/8" and it decreased my angle about .7 degrees.

[desertdogg]

Originally Posted by LH Lead-Foot

Hope all works out well. Learning never stops. As for being neighbors, I'm all for it but my glass will have a stronger brown liquid. Ha, Ha!

Thank for the offer and would really like to have someone who wants to learn.

You can only take your dignity, experiences and your knowledge to the grave...and not much else.

I don't mean to be a "Debbie Downer" but having a Dr. tell you...We don't like to do that! What the hell? It's an artificial elbow...it's not an un-tested rocket I built in his back yard while holding a match!

I feel, by experience, I am just being setup for an excuse that will come after my wallet is lighter and he wants to play golf. The guy does hands, elbows and shoulders for a living. I turned 61, not 91.

Best of luck, and I hope I helped a little on a chore a custom builder has to check most of the time, just to be sure. Knowing is better than guessing or finding out when you're in the middle or no where.

Thanks very much for the kind words.

Lead-Foot you have been a great help for sure. I played some more games with my truck this weekend and some more tonight, here is what I found. When trying to get my drive shaft on It would not go into the differential, with the yoke all the way in the tranny, and I mean all the way. seems Im off by like a half an inch or maybe a little less the other night it looked like it would fit perfectly but now it looks like I will have to get the drive shaft cut and reworked anyways, I got a measurement of 70 3/8" from the tranny to differential so this is going to cost me some more time and money, the good news is I got so mad that I decided to take it out on that transmission crossmember and was able to get it loosened after grinding the welds off but its still in there supporting the tranny which still leaves me in square one as I cant get the drive shaft on.

I also discovered something is screwy with my rear lights after getting all wired up I found that when the brakes are applied my reverse light is coming on at my rear right... the rear left Im not sure yet as I didn't have the bulb on it yet and haven't picked some up yet so I need to get that all figured out. Im now working on the front turn signals and marker lights, but lights are the least of my worries I will get that figured out one way or the other.


Lead-Foot I would seriously get a second opinion on that elbow, look online and see what others suggest ? your right 61 is not that old I think there is something out there that can fix it, I know knee replacement is a common thing and my buddies mom had both her knees replaced at the same time and shes pushing 80 you would think elbows would be easier ? anyways just a thought.

[desertdogg]

Originally Posted by bigmoe

Desertdogg the easiest place to measure your engines angle is on the front pulley. Lay a straight piece of wood on the surface, top and bottom, and put your digital angle finder on the wood. Subtract 90 degrees from whatever angle you find and ideally it should equal 3 degrees down.


At the rearend, with the driveshaft off, move the truck so the yoke is up and down. Use the same method with the little piece of wood across the yoke and your angle finder on the wood. Again subtract 90 and it should ideally equal 3 degrees up.

You want weight on the suspension and truck sitting on a level surface. You can put blocks under the wheels like you said as long as they are all the same height.



The best way to think about pinion angles (with one piece driveshafts) is to imagine a straight line going from the center of the front pulley bolt and out the centre of the trans output shaft and continuing to the back of the truck.
Now imagine a line coming straight out the rearend forward. Those two lines should run parralell.

Here: https://www.therangerstation.com/tec...onangles.shtml


Just for reference I was playing around with my engine angle. I shimmed up my trans crossmember 3/8" and it decreased my angle about .7 degrees.

bigmoe, Thanks for the reply and help on this ! that's a good idea with the straight piece of wood. Im going to try this tomorrow and get the reading off my engine pulley tomorrow, it would by nice for now, just to know if my engine is at least in the ballpark. Thanks for the link and your explanation of how to figure the pinion angle it all makes sense to me more and more now, the only thing is I was wondering if you put a jack underneath the tranny to move it up will that cause any stress on the engine or engine mounts ? going to check that link out now, again thanks for trying to help its much appreciated !

[LH Lead-Foot]

"Bigmoe"
The best way to think about pinion angles (with one piece driveshafts) is to imagine a straight line going from the center of the front pulley bolt and out the centre of the trans output shaft and continuing to the back of the truck.
Now imagine a line coming straight out the rearend forward. Those two lines should run parralell.

The visual provided by "Bigmoe" is a good one. And the use of the angle meter is a good one.

Don't worry about lifting the trans a little as long as you have daylight between parts and the floor. Use a block of wood during the lift.

I have lost track, but if the trans is a 1999 or newer 4L60e w/3 piece housing, these are about 3/4" longer and maybe causing the driveshaft not going home. Depending on many factors for engine placement, but many mounts allow forward or backward movement. This could keep you out of a driveshaft shop.

As for brake light issues, the duel filament bulb "1157" has been issues for years as the bulb is installed wrong, filament breaks then and touching the other wire, you get feed back, but you said the backup light came on. Right? So this will not be your problem. Testing at bake up light switch is not hard and is next. (Note: Grab some 3/8" extensions from your tool box, place an assorted length of these, between the seat & brake pedal, turning on brake switch, to operated / checking brake lights when alone)

The 67-72 pickup shares wire color going forward, but "BRN" is tail light circuit, LT/GRN is backup lights, DRK GRN is right rear, "YEL" is left brake light. On a manual trans, they used a simple "Ball Detent Switch", but the automatic is switched at the steering columns "Neutral / Safety Switch which has "Rev" switch built into it. I know there are two different part numbers for this column mounted switch, found at the bottom, on top. One 1/4" bolt allows it to be lifted, other end is tab "A" into slot "B" (If I remember right), then remove an inspect. The tab cane broken off, stuck in the reverse position. When removed, you will find using a finger carefully, you allows you to feel a hole in the shift tube shaft if equipped. The tab of this "N/S" switch fits into this and is easy to break off if the steering wheel is moving.
Remove connector, turn key on, check for voltage. The DRK/GRN comes from the fuse box, but the LT/GRN goes thru a firewall grommet and then along the frame to the lights, left side.

This is just one of those things you runs into. I used a console shifter and build my own console with PVC board, but fabricated my own Park/Neutral/ Reverse/ switch assembly using micro-switches.

As for artificial joints, knees & hips are money. Elbow, not so much as there is 3 bones, size and correct angle. Plus, all 3 bone a smaller in diameter, leaving less contact area. Joint failures come loose as the bone is to grow into the "Stippling" of the insert anchors. It's like a knurled tool surface or a file. Depending on use, it can cause the bone to break free and become loose. So, it's easy to see why some Dr. shy away from "That" procedure. Yes, this is the second Dr. But just this month...last guy was 5-6 years ago. It sucks, oh, 6'4".

I can't walk after bending over to wash dishes or shave. Pulled all lumbar muscles in 1987, which lead to bone fusion S1, L5 & L4 in 88. Then in 2005 had the L4 included. Now a decade later, live nerves in scar tissue and burning like a propane torch is behind me. Getting worse every year. Last RFA was August 2017. No luck, want 50%, but got nothing except a bill for new truck radials tires.
I can take 1 pain Rx, wait 20 minutes and go for about 30-45 minutes max, just to rake pine needles. I am up to just under 60 grains of morphine per 24 hours. Anything more then I get a visit from the Feds and have to wear a bracelet and carry a numbered card. My Dr. wants to retire...I ask him to wait 3 years. But TMI - This is my problem now.
Lets get yours fixed.

Driveshaft length is important with suspension and other factor involved. You have to leave room at the slip joint for potholes, not "Duke of Hazards". Your final U-Joint angle should never be less than 0.5 degrees (Stuck in my mind) and no more than 1.5 degrees. Last driveshaft I had done cost $20. Last on I did with 4.5" cut-off, cleanup rear companion flange, Clean deep MIG weld and used two worm-clamps together at rear (Note position of OEM weights), then rotate apart a little at a time, until axle supported vehicle, has no noticeable vibration at 20 MPH, 40, then 60 with hand on fender, forefinger up in the air. It's a procedure in the GM service manual.

[desertdogg]

Originally Posted by LH Lead-Foot

"Bigmoe"
The best way to think about pinion angles (with one piece driveshafts) is to imagine a straight line going from the center of the front pulley bolt and out the centre of the trans output shaft and continuing to the back of the truck.
Now imagine a line coming straight out the rearend forward. Those two lines should run parralell.

The visual provided by "Bigmoe" is a good one. And the use of the angle meter is a good one.

Don't worry about lifting the trans a little as long as you have daylight between parts and the floor. Use a block of wood during the lift.

I have lost track, but if the trans is a 1999 or newer 4L60e w/3 piece housing, these are about 3/4" longer and maybe causing the driveshaft not going home. Depending on many factors for engine placement, but many mounts allow forward or backward movement. This could keep you out of a driveshaft shop.

As for brake light issues, the duel filament bulb "1157" has been issues for years as the bulb is installed wrong, filament breaks then and touching the other wire, you get feed back, but you said the backup light came on. Right? So this will not be your problem. Testing at bake up light switch is not hard and is next. (Note: Grab some 3/8" extensions from your tool box, place an assorted length of these, between the seat & brake pedal, turning on brake switch, to operated / checking brake lights when alone)

The 67-72 pickup shares wire color going forward, but "BRN" is tail light circuit, LT/GRN is backup lights, DRK GRN is right rear, "YEL" is left brake light. On a manual trans, they used a simple "Ball Detent Switch", but the automatic is switched at the steering columns "Neutral / Safety Switch which has "Rev" switch built into it. I know there are two different part numbers for this column mounted switch, found at the bottom, on top. One 1/4" bolt allows it to be lifted, other end is tab "A" into slot "B" (If I remember right), then remove an inspect. The tab cane broken off, stuck in the reverse position. When removed, you will find using a finger carefully, you allows you to feel a hole in the shift tube shaft if equipped. The tab of this "N/S" switch fits into this and is easy to break off if the steering wheel is moving.
Remove connector, turn key on, check for voltage. The DRK/GRN comes from the fuse box, but the LT/GRN goes thru a firewall grommet and then along the frame to the lights, left side.

This is just one of those things you runs into. I used a console shifter and build my own console with PVC board, but fabricated my own Park/Neutral/ Reverse/ switch assembly using micro-switches.

As for artificial joints, knees & hips are money. Elbow, not so much as there is 3 bones, size and correct angle. Plus, all 3 bone a smaller in diameter, leaving less contact area. Joint failures come loose as the bone is to grow into the "Stippling" of the insert anchors. It's like a knurled tool surface or a file. Depending on use, it can cause the bone to break free and become loose. So, it's easy to see why some Dr. shy away from "That" procedure. Yes, this is the second Dr. But just this month...last guy was 5-6 years ago. It sucks, oh, 6'4".

I can't walk after bending over to wash dishes or shave. Pulled all lumbar muscles in 1987, which lead to bone fusion S1, L5 & L4 in 88. Then in 2005 had the L4 included. Now a decade later, live nerves in scar tissue and burning like a propane torch is behind me. Getting worse every year. Last RFA was August 2017. No luck, want 50%, but got nothing except a bill for new truck radials tires.
I can take 1 pain Rx, wait 20 minutes and go for about 30-45 minutes max, just to rake pine needles. I am up to just under 60 grains of morphine per 24 hours. Anything more then I get a visit from the Feds and have to wear a bracelet and carry a numbered card. My Dr. wants to retire...I ask him to wait 3 years. But TMI - This is my problem now.
Lets get yours fixed.

Driveshaft length is important with suspension and other factor involved. You have to leave room at the slip joint for potholes, not "Duke of Hazards". Your final U-Joint angle should never be less than 0.5 degrees (Stuck in my mind) and no more than 1.5 degrees. Last driveshaft I had done cost $20. Last on I did with 4.5" cut-off, cleanup rear companion flange, Clean deep MIG weld and used two worm-clamps together at rear (Note position of OEM weights), then rotate apart a little at a time, until axle supported vehicle, has no noticeable vibration at 20 MPH, 40, then 60 with hand on fender, forefinger up in the air. It's a procedure in the GM service manual.

Lead-Foot, got a few moments to get on here and read your post. Thanks for all the great information and advice but I didnt get a chance to get in the garage today going to go over this a few times tomorrow when I get back in there. Had to deal with our sick Dog,he's 9 now and has some health problems that flared up today. It will be a sad day when he leaves us, my wife's baby and my budd, anyways hopefully he gets better by tomorrow.

I'm going to pick up some bulbs tomorrow, you have a good memory they are 1157s. I wouldn't give up hope on getting better if I were you things can change for the better. I will keep you in my prayers, stay positive brother !

I will check back in once I make some progress on this truck ! Thanks again !

[LH Lead-Foot]

While the dual filament bulb was used for 50+ years, I think they now called 2057's. Either way, they list them by both. I have seen every type of bulb mistake or failure known to man, not to mention the "Blue Scotch-Lock" under the rear bumper when someone decided to add trailer lights. Can you say "Green Copper Wires"?

Start with basics. Use a combination of extension to reach the seat, but hold the brake pedal on. Check for voltage and bulb type. I always solder new ground onto the fixture and the socket to the body. You'l have to wire wheel that crimp, then find some non-electrical soldering flux / acid. Run new BLK wire to nearby bolt with "Star" washers, but include a connector for service.
Use WD40 as cleaner to wipe the harness wires to see the colors for ID.
If you have the glass fuses, the stop lamp fuse is over used with current. Check both side for voltage with test light. ATO/ATC fuses are great, but painless complete harnesses are so expensive. I guess this is one reason for my obsession with dielectric grease.
(Tip; If using tape on wires or harness covers, use a dab of black weather strip adhesive in the end...it will not unravel. Plus, if you need to remove tape on harness, go to fabric store and purchase a couple of "Seem Rippers". They have protective point that has sharp center hook. They work great & cheap.

I had to take a different job because left elbow / pinched ulnar nerve that made me cry while holding a 1/2" air impact just to remove the lugs nuts on a SUV, I found myself as service manager at a boat dealer with 8 techs. Mercury marine sold gigantic tubes of dielectric grease ($20) and service manuals insisted it was to be used on everything electrical.

Sorry to hear about your 4 legged friend as I have lost 4. I feel the pain.
My black lab was born in my hands (Farm Boy) but with one eye and no one wanted him. Didn't feel like having another, but kept him anyways. We became one machine, work habits, nap time, play-time, time of day and sleep. He would jump in bed by my feet, wait 15 minutes until I got settled, then place his head over my ankles/ feet for his pillow. He was over 7 years old within my enclosed fence 7 foot high and in March, the garden was bare, so I left the garden gate open with allowed him access to 28 ft of public sidewalk. He would bark at other sometimes, but people are weird when it comes to dogs. They must figure they would jump a 7' fence and kill them.
Someone threw something over that was soaked in antifreeze, he ate some of it & in 2 days his kidneys, liver and white blood cells where gone. Lady "Vet" told me the antifreeze would create this activity. Had to put him down that day, 30 days after my 60th B-day. Never been right since. Being home all day creates a different bond with certain breeds of dogs as each breed has their own characteristics, while this leads to a dog/human best friend. Was not ready for that to end. No more!

A guy working on a restoration can say, there is not a bolt or nut on this vehicle I have not touched. This makes it yours. Hoping to get leather samples today for the buckets, doors and console accents. I hope to start the mock-up because I am using the BCM from donor that allows me for RKE, lights, horn, power windows, content theft and a lot more to operate from mostly ground inputs via class 2 serial data. I have a TECH2 scan-tool from Hewlett-Packard, the original company. There are a lot of Chinese stuff on eBay they have copied since GM built a plant to tap the huge market in the East. The platform names change in some cases, but owning a Buick is a mark of success over there.

Hope you find time for your project, while I try to figure out how to stand & walk without pain. New RFA starting in two weeks. Yeah!

[desertdogg]

Originally Posted by LH Lead-Foot

While the dual filament bulb was used for 50+ years, I think they now called 2057's. Either way, they list them by both. I have seen every type of bulb mistake or failure known to man, not to mention the "Blue Scotch-Lock" under the rear bumper when someone decided to add trailer lights. Can you say "Green Copper Wires"?

Start with basics. Use a combination of extension to reach the seat, but hold the brake pedal on. Check for voltage and bulb type. I always solder new ground onto the fixture and the socket to the body. You'l have to wire wheel that crimp, then find some non-electrical soldering flux / acid. Run new BLK wire to nearby bolt with "Star" washers, but include a connector for service.
Use WD40 as cleaner to wipe the harness wires to see the colors for ID.
If you have the glass fuses, the stop lamp fuse is over used with current. Check both side for voltage with test light. ATO/ATC fuses are great, but painless complete harnesses are so expensive. I guess this is one reason for my obsession with dielectric grease.
(Tip; If using tape on wires or harness covers, use a dab of black weather strip adhesive in the end...it will not unravel. Plus, if you need to remove tape on harness, go to fabric store and purchase a couple of "Seem Rippers". They have protective point that has sharp center hook. They work great & cheap.

I had to take a different job because left elbow / pinched ulnar nerve that made me cry while holding a 1/2" air impact just to remove the lugs nuts on a SUV, I found myself as service manager at a boat dealer with 8 techs. Mercury marine sold gigantic tubes of dielectric grease ($20) and service manuals insisted it was to be used on everything electrical.

Sorry to hear about your 4 legged friend as I have lost 4. I feel the pain.
My black lab was born in my hands (Farm Boy) but with one eye and no one wanted him. Didn't feel like having another, but kept him anyways. We became one machine, work habits, nap time, play-time, time of day and sleep. He would jump in bed by my feet, wait 15 minutes until I got settled, then place his head over my ankles/ feet for his pillow. He was over 7 years old within my enclosed fence 7 foot high and in March, the garden was bare, so I left the garden gate open with allowed him access to 28 ft of public sidewalk. He would bark at other sometimes, but people are weird when it comes to dogs. They must figure they would jump a 7' fence and kill them.
Someone threw something over that was soaked in antifreeze, he ate some of it & in 2 days his kidneys, liver and white blood cells where gone. Lady "Vet" told me the antifreeze would create this activity. Had to put him down that day, 30 days after my 60th B-day. Never been right since. Being home all day creates a different bond with certain breeds of dogs as each breed has their own characteristics, while this leads to a dog/human best friend. Was not ready for that to end. No more!

A guy working on a restoration can say, there is not a bolt or nut on this vehicle I have not touched. This makes it yours. Hoping to get leather samples today for the buckets, doors and console accents. I hope to start the mock-up because I am using the BCM from donor that allows me for RKE, lights, horn, power windows, content theft and a lot more to operate from mostly ground inputs via class 2 serial data. I have a TECH2 scan-tool from Hewlett-Packard, the original company. There are a lot of Chinese stuff on eBay they have copied since GM built a plant to tap the huge market in the East. The platform names change in some cases, but owning a Buick is a mark of success over there.

Hope you find time for your project, while I try to figure out how to stand & walk without pain. New RFA starting in two weeks. Yeah!

got a little bit of time tonight to get in the truck, our old pup is still not doing well and looks like its time to go back to the vet and see whats going on with him, not eating and throwing up with what ever little he does eat and pretty much water coming out the other end. We have been able to stabilizee it with him on Prednisone, and a mild antibiotic, vet thinks its some sort of bowel inflammation possibly cancer but would need a 2500 dollar procedure to know exactly, so we just treat for the possible and has been working for the past year or so procedure would be a waste of money as far as im concerned because, if it is cancer then there would be nothing we could do anyways.


Back to the truck, I didn't feel like getting into the wiring tonight it was late and dark so going to leave that for the weekend but, I did drop the truck off the jack stands and was able to take a measurement at the front pulley of the truck and I got 85.3 degrees so its sloping down towards the tranny so Im guessing Im a couple of degrees off ? so im thinking if I jack up the tranny a bit I might be within spec ?... going to try to get the other measurements this weekend and try to get on the lighting hopefully before then, but we will see how it goes. Thanks for all the information your giving me its extremely useful Im going to print these pages with your info so I can reference it when I get back to the wiring. The one thing I do the same is use WD40 for cleaning parts of all kinds like you...great stuff !

So it sounds like your working on a new project ? that's good ! glad to hear it. I always believed as long as you can make progress on anything project or whatever, keeps your mind busy, and body moving gives you a sense of satisfaction, I just wish I got back into working on this truck sooner than I did but after both my parents getting sick and passing away within two years of each other I just couldn't... it was some sort of mental block or just my way of grieving I guess, but I always knew I would get back into it and want to finish it, so that's where Im at now and its really become enjoyable again even tho its going slow but I can picture it and know it will get done...hopefully
Anyways, praying for you and hope your feeling better. You say your getting a new RFA ? had to look that medical term up "Radio Frequency Ablation" says used to reduce pain ? I hope it takes your pain away for good !

I will get back on here tomorrow if any progress gets made on the truck, going to try to get my dog to the Vet after work tomorrow If there is any openings. I called them today and they said nothing available but to check back in tomorrow so we will see. Priorities !

[desertdogg]

Ok, so I got all of my lighting done, including my headlights and front turn signals with the time I was able to have with the truck this weekend. Only one problem is when I hit the brakes both reverse lamps come on I can turn on my headlights and all lights that are suppose to come on do come on but just my reverse lights come on only when I hit the brakes and I have been going crazy trying to figure this out. Now I just need to figure out my next plan of attack, Im just going to leave the lights issue for now till I can figure out whats going on.

I also now have the truck on its own weight and all four wheels sitting on 4x6 blocks of wood and got some measurements. front engine pulley I have 85.3* down at the tranny pulley 94.2* down and differential is at 89.4 degrees up. and it sounds like im off everywhere unless im mistaken going to have to check what the specs are supposed to be at again

[ls1nova71]

Originally Posted by desertdogg

front engine pulley I have 85.3* down at the tranny pulley 94.2* down and differential is at 89.4 degrees up.

Not sure what you mean by tranny pulley? Do you mean yoke? It's hard to get an accurate measurement without a flat surface, and the slip yoke generally wont have one, so either using the flat part of the valley cover under the intake or the crank pulley is easier, of course you need to know your crank pulley is perfectly straight.

[desertdogg]

Originally Posted by ls1nova71

Not sure what you mean by tranny pulley? Do you mean yoke? It's hard to get an accurate measurement without a flat surface, and the slip yoke generally wont have one, so either using the flat part of the valley cover under the intake or the crank pulley is easier, of course you need to know your crank pulley is perfectly straight.

Sorry Ls1, yes I meant at the end of tranny where the yoke goes in with the drive shaft taken off. I used a flat piece of wood to get the readings.

[desertdogg]

Did a lot of wire looming today under neath engine going to transmission theres a lot of slack under there, have to figure out where to tie this to its really tite between the header pipe and the frame but it shouldn't be a problem going to have to get some brackets to keep everything tied and away from the hot pipe and engine. there was a big thick braided flat wire coming down I suppose this was the ground for the engine, and got it screwed down to my frame. I discovered that the old speedometer cable was underneath there ? going to have to research this, but im thinking I don't need it and will have to get it pulled out of there.

I am thinking that im really close to fireing up the engine at this point but need to take a closer look and figure out what is left before I do that

[LH Lead-Foot]

The grounds for any engine in a vehicle a important, yet with a high amperage alternator and electrical systems that use 5 volt DC is even demanding of a good ground path. Increasing the number of grounds and size are "Best Practices" following the negative to the engine, frame, fender, fame to cab (Under right door near fender) as well as frame to the bed at the back near the tail lights. Using the best copper strand wire and largest you feel comfortable with, will eliminate one more future issue. 3/8" Copper pipe can be drilled, smashed and shaped in you bench vise to install eyelets in these cable. I prefer to use shrink tubing, star washers and dielectric grease on these point of attachments.
If you are using the 4L60e (I have forgot), but they have a two wire VSS sensor that runs directly into the PCM. Provide an 18 gauge black wire mounted to the frame near the tail shaft housing, run it in the VSS harness to the PCM and exist the harness to ground again. From the factory, VSS sensors are permanent magnet generators (PMGs) produce an A/C voltage that is a small signal at slow speeds, but increase to 100 volts A/C at higher frequency during high speeds. To keep a clean signal, the wires are twisted 9 times per foot (Does not have to be perfect) but this helps eliminate mutual induction from low voltage / high current circuits & High voltage / low current spark plug circuits) As this circuit is assembled, include the ground wire along with the twisted pair, then if able, wrap with aluminum tape sold at home improvement store in the HVAC section. Get the cheap stuff as it helps as well with other harnesses that run close to headers / exhaust. Don't forget the front O2 sensors and the starter control wires that run up the back over the back of the engine. Use metal clamps to attach each harness so it is far away from heat. As you described, the drivers side harness runs close to headers, but tape it also, but decide if you can install a metal heat shield. like used on starters to reduce heat exposure. Doing this now, will help eliminate melted wires in the future.Even factory LS motor mounts have a sandwich heat shield that has fiberglass between two layer of metal. It adds to longevity of any type of mount used and can be painted with high temp paint to accent of disappear.

Depending on the many types of instrument cluster you choose to go with, the mechanical speedo cable is not needed. I found tab welded factory clip on the cab to hold it in place and routed near engine to make a large loop around the bottom of the park brake cable and steering shaft, then under the brake master into the firewall. You will now have a rubber plug with a hold in it that can be re-purposed.

[desertdogg]

Originally Posted by LH Lead-Foot

The grounds for any engine in a vehicle a important, yet with a high amperage alternator and electrical systems that use 5 volt DC is even demanding of a good ground path. Increasing the number of grounds and size are "Best Practices" following the negative to the engine, frame, fender, fame to cab (Under right door near fender) as well as frame to the bed at the back near the tail lights. Using the best copper strand wire and largest you feel comfortable with, will eliminate one more future issue. 3/8" Copper pipe can be drilled, smashed and shaped in you bench vise to install eyelets in these cable. I prefer to use shrink tubing, star washers and dielectric grease on these point of attachments.
If you are using the 4L60e (I have forgot), but they have a two wire VSS sensor that runs directly into the PCM. Provide an 18 gauge black wire mounted to the frame near the tail shaft housing, run it in the VSS harness to the PCM and exist the harness to ground again. From the factory, VSS sensors are permanent magnet generators (PMGs) produce an A/C voltage that is a small signal at slow speeds, but increase to 100 volts A/C at higher frequency during high speeds. To keep a clean signal, the wires are twisted 9 times per foot (Does not have to be perfect) but this helps eliminate mutual induction from low voltage / high current circuits & High voltage / low current spark plug circuits) As this circuit is assembled, include the ground wire along with the twisted pair, then if able, wrap with aluminum tape sold at home improvement store in the HVAC section. Get the cheap stuff as it helps as well with other harnesses that run close to headers / exhaust. Don't forget the front O2 sensors and the starter control wires that run up the back over the back of the engine. Use metal clamps to attach each harness so it is far away from heat. As you described, the drivers side harness runs close to headers, but tape it also, but decide if you can install a metal heat shield. like used on starters to reduce heat exposure. Doing this now, will help eliminate melted wires in the future.Even factory LS motor mounts have a sandwich heat shield that has fiberglass between two layer of metal. It adds to longevity of any type of mount used and can be painted with high temp paint to accent of disappear.

Depending on the many types of instrument cluster you choose to go with, the mechanical speedo cable is not needed. I found tab welded factory clip on the cab to hold it in place and routed near engine to make a large loop around the bottom of the park brake cable and steering shaft, then under the brake master into the firewall. You will now have a rubber plug with a hold in it that can be re-purposed.

Lead-foot glad to hear from you ! and again thank you for the valuable information. I am going to go back under neath there and do what you suggested above. I actually have some of that aluminum tape left over from when I Dyno matted the inside of my truck. I believe I have some sheet metal as well, that's a great Idea for creating a heat shield thank you didn't even cross my mind to do that and a very simple effective idea. That should keep me busy tomorrow . Im really anxious to get this engine started and I was wondering if you can give me some sort of pre check list of what should be done, or in place before that happens ?. I have a few things left to do that I noticed needs done including everything you mentioned above so that will keep me busy for at least thru the weekend. One thing I did notice and a little confused about is my radiator fan. I will post some pictures later so I can describe what Im talking about but I will cross that bridge later and I think its one of the things needing done before I start the engine...anyways thanks again and hope all is going well for you.

[LH Lead-Foot]

Well, I try to remember everything, but the factory tail light harness & fuel sender run down the drivers / Left side to frame. Add wire for VSS and fuel pump for "LS" engine can go there. Many run fuel lines both supply and return and use metal bolt in clamps to hold them in place. Some do no use a return fuel line, but you know what you have.
The rear brake line normally runs on the passengers side / right, so as long as it is in good shape, should be good to go. Always check the rubber hose over the differential that goes into the "Tee" and 3/16" hard lines. It will last another 50 years and are cheap.
The heat shield can be made out of any mild steel you have laying around. I use "Red Rosin" paper (Used for hard wood floors) for cutting a template as it is cheap, but cardboard will do. Look for un-used holes left over from the factory manual transmission crossmember and under brake booster is more holes for clutch pivot. The frame a thick on the tractor like vehicles, so any drilling you can avoid will speed things up. Even, self-tapping screws will have a hard time unless pilot hole is drilled first. As for the heat shield, if you find some metal in your pile that will work, I suggest cleaning it first with 80 grit on both sides so it is easy to prime & paint latter before it goes on. Using a metal scribe your line will make it easy to see where to cut, bend & shape before marking/drilling for mounting bolt holes. After your semi-complex shape it ready, it can be hit with primer / paint without have to clean it. Use the last little bit of high-heat stuff you have on the shelf.
It is just the fuel hose, harness that you will have to spend time on. If you like the convoluted plastic harness cover, place a dab of black weather strip adhesive on the cut end, then push into place. It will keep it from un-raveling after a months and last for years.
(I find that home improvement store sell 10' packages of harness cover in single bags for half of O'Riellys or Napa. Bender/Gardner is a good product with wide temp range. I think LMC sells black weather strip adhesive cheaper than most in Loctite 5 oz tubes for $7 now / Yep tube gets smaller, price goes up)

Make sure fuel lines are correct for rubber EFI applications as many say the ethanol will eat them, but your not running E85 either, and manes like Gates and other make good stuff. Metal lines are great, but cause more fuss for connections, bending, etc. E85 factory lines are stainless steel alloy. I use half & half. Cleaned the bent metal lines with nylon pad, wipe off with actetone, sprayed with silver Rustoleum wheel paint, then clear coated them. (It is tough stuff) I bent them to come across from left, over the bell housing, then up to fuel rails using the factory 5.3L line couples & clips. Got at least one factory plastic 3/8 - 5/16" line clips onto bell housing bracket I made, then anchor with another on the frame. I was able to get the flexible section from the factory between the two. It too is wound SS, but cleaned and sprayed as well. But, I guess, overall, just hiding them so they don't show including engine harness as I cut a hole to use the large factory grommet that they use into the cab. But I had the whole vehicle to scavage! I am frugal, not cheap!

What transmission did the truck come with? Mine was born with 6 banger & Muncie SM465 W/Dual PTO covers. This is where the backup light switch bolted. I think the trans weighs more than the engine.

If you are not using AN fitting (Too expensive for me), where metal line meets hose, I put a small line ridge using my brake line flare kit on the end. Just a little to help hold a line clamp & hose in place.

Have a safe, productive, good weekend!

P.S. Both hands, fingers and above L3 are full of arthritis according to last weeks films. I am asking the Doc to get me 3 more years before I grow wheels. For the elbow, they have a seal traveling group (Consortium) of doctors that do that. Yet to be determined when. I don't want it to mess up my summer, so I use "Capsaicin Cream wrapped in Saran Wrap. It burns more once you sweat!

[desertdogg]

Originally Posted by LH Lead-Foot

Well, I try to remember everything, but the factory tail light harness & fuel sender run down the drivers / Left side to frame. Add wire for VSS and fuel pump for "LS" engine can go there. Many run fuel lines both supply and return and use metal bolt in clamps to hold them in place. Some do no use a return fuel line, but you know what you have.
The rear brake line normally runs on the passengers side / right, so as long as it is in good shape, should be good to go. Always check the rubber hose over the differential that goes into the "Tee" and 3/16" hard lines. It will last another 50 years and are cheap.
The heat shield can be made out of any mild steel you have laying around. I use "Red Rosin" paper (Used for hard wood floors) for cutting a template as it is cheap, but cardboard will do. Look for un-used holes left over from the factory manual transmission crossmember and under brake booster is more holes for clutch pivot. The frame a thick on the tractor like vehicles, so any drilling you can avoid will speed things up. Even, self-tapping screws will have a hard time unless pilot hole is drilled first. As for the heat shield, if you find some metal in your pile that will work, I suggest cleaning it first with 80 grit on both sides so it is easy to prime & paint latter before it goes on. Using a metal scribe your line will make it easy to see where to cut, bend & shape before marking/drilling for mounting bolt holes. After your semi-complex shape it ready, it can be hit with primer / paint without have to clean it. Use the last little bit of high-heat stuff you have on the shelf.
It is just the fuel hose, harness that you will have to spend time on. If you like the convoluted plastic harness cover, place a dab of black weather strip adhesive on the cut end, then push into place. It will keep it from un-raveling after a months and last for years.
(I find that home improvement store sell 10' packages of harness cover in single bags for half of O'Riellys or Napa. Bender/Gardner is a good product with wide temp range. I think LMC sells black weather strip adhesive cheaper than most in Loctite 5 oz tubes for $7 now / Yep tube gets smaller, price goes up)

Make sure fuel lines are correct for rubber EFI applications as many say the ethanol will eat them, but your not running E85 either, and manes like Gates and other make good stuff. Metal lines are great, but cause more fuss for connections, bending, etc. E85 factory lines are stainless steel alloy. I use half & half. Cleaned the bent metal lines with nylon pad, wipe off with actetone, sprayed with silver Rustoleum wheel paint, then clear coated them. (It is tough stuff) I bent them to come across from left, over the bell housing, then up to fuel rails using the factory 5.3L line couples & clips. Got at least one factory plastic 3/8 - 5/16" line clips onto bell housing bracket I made, then anchor with another on the frame. I was able to get the flexible section from the factory between the two. It too is wound SS, but cleaned and sprayed as well. But, I guess, overall, just hiding them so they don't show including engine harness as I cut a hole to use the large factory grommet that they use into the cab. But I had the whole vehicle to scavage! I am frugal, not cheap!

What transmission did the truck come with? Mine was born with 6 banger & Muncie SM465 W/Dual PTO covers. This is where the backup light switch bolted. I think the trans weighs more than the engine.

If you are not using AN fitting (Too expensive for me), where metal line meets hose, I put a small line ridge using my brake line flare kit on the end. Just a little to help hold a line clamp & hose in place.

Have a safe, productive, good weekend!

P.S. Both hands, fingers and above L3 are full of arthritis according to last weeks films. I am asking the Doc to get me 3 more years before I grow wheels. For the elbow, they have a seal traveling group (Consortium) of doctors that do that. Yet to be determined when. I don't want it to mess up my summer, so I use "Capsaicin Cream wrapped in Saran Wrap. It burns more once you sweat!

Thanks so much for all the information Lead-foot ! you have given me quite a list that should keep me busy for awhile. I completely forgot that we had tickets for the Good Guys car show tomorrow so I am going with the wife to check some nice rides here in San Diego, hopefully I can get some good Ideas for my truck too. I will have all day Sunday and try to get some of this stuff banged out then and during the week ! Thanks again for your good information and I hope you have a great weekend !

[desertdogg]

Update, got a few things done on that list with the little time I got because basically life got in the way, very rough week so far some guy asked about our old motorhome asking if we wanted to sell it, which was weird because me and my wife was just saying we should probably sell it lol, so we did which kept me busy getting everything out of it and getting it ready for him to pick up this coming weekend. Then my daughter moving out last weekend and yesterday we had to put our dog down which just killed me. Your right Lead-Foot ! No more ! we have one dog left, he is great too but my other guy was the best dog ever very special in his own unique way, spoke to you with his eyes if you know what I mean ? anyways after this one goes I don't think I can handle going thru this again just too rough anymore .
All three of those things really added up and kicked my ass, motorhome had lots of great memories with the family and dogs, daughter moving out had impact as well shes pregnant and getting married after the baby but still kind of hit me, then our pooch was the kicker !. like I said LIFE !

Anyways now I have a garage full of stuff that I need to get out of the way from the motorhome, have to go thru that with the wife hopefully this weekend. Amazing how much stuff is accumulated in a motor home after 10 years Then once out of the way just a few things on the truck and I think Im going to try and get it started, we shall see how it goes clearing that garage again, I think I need to have a yard sale or just throwing stuff out, just don't have enough space anymore....will update as progress comes I have a grand son coming and that just motivates me more to get it ready, something to take him for a ride in that I think he would enjoy...anyways wanted to come in and update and will do so again when more progress comes !

[desertdogg]

just a few pics I took from the car show last Saturday.

[LH Lead-Foot]

Nice photos, wish I could go...but don't or can't afford to go anywhere. Wife healing from replacement shoulder & down to one income. Got $85 after bills before the grocery store.
I need a barn raising. City wants permits, 48 deep foundation, power moved, 2" foam insulation on outside of foundation, and floor under concrete. I guy can dream. House is like split level, but where you walk in, they moved it 14 feet apart and has canted steps up & down. My love it in 92, so I got it for her. Bad news, the garage is a 1 1/2" garage under one end. Because we are on the corner of cul de sac... we have two driveways and room in the back yard to build a 2 car garage sideways. I have two piles of new parts over 6" high, 8' square, plus equipment & tool boxes. I have shelving complete on one wall to compressor, 12" SS bench then wrapped with 4 SnapOn tool boxes. With every special tool except TIG, Press and little else, out of room.

Layed out seat pattern for leather, trying to move forward with sewing on commercial lock-stitch Juki that will sew thru 8 layers of leather. Mig, table saw, torch, blast cabinet, Engine on stand, 4L60 on pallet W/wheels, can't move. Wife has empty basement with family room and two empty bedrooms and will not let me use any of the rooms. This what happens when tech retires and has little garage after building 28' X 36' with 12' ceiling at last home. The only travel I do is to the doctors office. Sound weird but looking forward to nerve block / epidural the 19th. Top fusion was 05 W/brackets, bars & screws. Doc says that studies show arthritis grows on joint above those. So hello L3.

I am selling , saving and sneaking money on the side for what I need. I am using chemical stripping method to remove paint, grind out filler, use SPI epoxy then Evercoat rage gold. Did math for everything paint, primer to clear and shocked to see $960 before taxes.
My youngest son used bondo, sanded, sprayed with dollar store rattle can primer to see if flat, then added more filler...wrong on so many levels, but I was busy fixing mechanical & electrical and did not watch or see his body work. So starting over will I have time before I get the wheelchair out in 2022 - 2023. Seems weird to say or see that, but I was warned by doctor that a healthy tall guy will be on a two wheeler in a few years. I have to move along...maybe I'll get a $30 flip phone cell plan and start a facebook. Never had either. We will see. Son can't help, as his two boys love to work on cars. They want PaPa to teach them.
I just want to leave something I build behind for others to use.

Hope you get further in your project. I will not bring up my issues again. Sorry about your dog. There is a special place in heaven for these guys.

[desertdogg]

Quick update...looks ready for start up waiting couple of friends to come over and have them take s look and we will start engine together...too many things going on lately and haven't had a whole lot of hans on time but will get there just wanted to do a quick update