Towing Help - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

rockman20 · 08-02-2005, 09:03 AM

Okay, I have a problem. I don't have enough money to buy myself a decent diesel pickup and I have shoved way more money into mine then what it is worth. So I figure I should maybe build this one to more suit my needs.

Right now here is my setup. 82 Chevy Scottsdale 1/2 ton that now has 3/4 ton axles with 3.73 gears and 3/4 ton springs. The pickup was originally a diesel but the guy before me put a gasser in it. So it currently has a 350 bored 60 over. Chrome Moly rings, aluminum Edelbrock Performer Intake, Holley rebuilt Quadrajet, the cam I am still trying to figure out what cam is in it, (It should of been a Comp Cam Extreme 4 X 4 cam but I have no idea) Mallory billet distributer with stock GM HEI coil, headers with true duals, 2.5 inch exhaust into Flowmaster Delta Series mufflers, 700 R4 transmission that was suppose to have a gas torque converter put in and has gas govenor in it, K & N filter

Here is my problem. On its own this truck moves pretty well. It will pull right around 13 MPG on the highway with the K & N filter (I was having some fuel economy issues before. Putting this filter on got me back to where I was before) The truck has good get up and go and moves pretty well. The only thing is it will barely chirp the tires from a dead stop which I find odd and if you are going about 30 on gravel and punch it to the floor it doesn't really break the tires loose either. And then when you put a trailer behind it, dream on!

I pulled a tandem axle trailer (guessing about a 20 footer) with a New Holland skid steer on it. Wow, what a drag! It would hold 60 to 65 MPH down the road but it took a while to get there and fuel economy dropped to about 6.8 MPG. I just don't think this is right at all! It should be a bit better then that. But maybe I am crazy in my thinking?

I did a compression test on the engine last night. (Engine has less then 20,000 miles on it) First off, the plugs. They all looked pretty good but I am curious as to why they were burning like this. One half of the elctrode was still clean. No deposits at all. The other half of the electrode was a brown, flaky, deposit. It really wasn't built up on the plug, but it was enough that you could flake it off if you scratched at it.

Now for the results. All of the cylinders except for one had an initial compression around 115 to 120. After 4 compression strokes they all topped out around 160 to 175. #1 cylinder however had an initial compression of 90 and then topped off at 160 after that. I don't have a leak down tester so this is as far as I went.

I don't think the above compression results are bad at all. #1 makes me a little curious, but I don't think it is causing my problem.

I am wondering if my problem may not be tied to transmission? I wonder if that converter is not planting my power like it should. I was keeping an eye on my transmission temps and was not impressed by that either. Towing down the highway with a small auxillary cooler in line with the radiator cooler, I was seeing transmission temps right around 200 and at times 210. (This was a 90 degree day though) I am thinking that is kind of high for transmission, but I have never really towed this much before so I guess that I don't know.

I know this is a lot of information, but I am just frustrated with the towing capabilities of this truck. In my opinion it should do better then this. What is my weak link here? Or am I just expecting too much out of my truck?

I'm about ready to call an ad I saw in the local paper. He has a 4 ton tandem GMC truck for sale with the 8.2L turbo diesel in it. That should give me the power I want!

Prerunner1982 · 08-02-2005, 12:12 PM

just out of curiousity what size tires does your truck have? my truck has 32" tires and 3.08s, it can only break the tires loose on pavement when i turn and not always... it will however break them loose quite easily on the gravel/dirt roads i live on....

JustOneTruck · 08-02-2005, 12:34 PM

I once had a Q-Jet that acted like what your talking about. They are great for millage and HP .I had my rebuilt and was asked if I wanted a vacume pull or manuall kick down.I went manual on it .Once I had it back and on the truck it broke the wheels loose easly. If Im not mistaken the vacume way waits for the engine to make enough vacume to open up the monster secondaires and finally the pull of horse power is finally at the back wheels.

Prerunner1982 · 08-02-2005, 12:42 PM

you can do this also by benting the tab out of the way that is controlled by the vac. and prevents the secondaries from opening. But this may make your truck bog down when you floor it, never done it myself, seen it done... the guy ended up replacing the old carb his did this to with a new one not long after.. i doubt it was related to doing this mod...

rockman20 · 08-02-2005, 02:55 PM

If memory serves me right the tires are 265 75 R 16's. Don't quote me for certain on that, but I believe that is the size. They are Hancook 10 ply tires so they are kind of heavy, but I would think on gravel it should have no problems. Dad has similar Cooper tires on his truck. His is a 92 with the throttle body fuel injected 350 and his will smoke the tire from a dead stop.

The tab on the carb has already been removed. Basically that tab just keeps the secondaries from opening if the choke is on. This tab usually gets in the way and sometimes keeps the secondaries from opening at all which is why most people remove it.

The bottom butterflies on the secondary are mechanical, but the top ones are vacuum. I know that they are opening though because you can hear the deep growl from the carb when those babies open. (I love that sound)

I am leaning more towards transmission the more I talk about it. It seems like everything should be there for a decent pulling truck. I plan on putting a trans go shift kit in the transmission to help out with the shift points when towing. They are a little early right now. This will help some, but I am really wondering about that converter. It was a rebuilt converter that the transmission shop put in for me so what I know about it is limited. Besides I was very clear to him that it was no longer a diesel and was a gas so I wanted a converter for that application.

I'm just wondering if anyone knows, did they change the valving in a 700R4 that was in a diesel compared to what a gas would be? In my mind, I would think they did just because a diesel makes its power at low RPM's where as a gasser is usually at higher RPM's.

But again, maybe I am completely wrong and am expecting too much out of my truck? I should of gotten a 3/4 ton. *sigh*

arveetek · 08-02-2005, 05:06 PM

The diesel transmissions are the same as gassers, except for governors and TC's. The diesel TC's had a lower stall speed. The governors for the diesels also caused the transmission to shift a bit sooner. However, if you do have a gasser TC, then you can manually shift the tranny and rule out the tranny as any source of the "problem."

What you need is a tricked out 6.2L turbo diesel back in there!

Casey

magnethead · 08-02-2005, 08:41 PM

the 3.73's seem low but i think 4.10's would help a little more on the towing end. Is it a lockup converter? that might be part of it.

rockman20 · 08-03-2005, 10:01 AM

Trust me arveetek, I have been trying to talk dad out of his 6.2 that he has in his van.

He barely drives it anyways. And I have drooled over your 6.2 buildup. I would love to have a setup like that.

But for now, they are just pipe dreams.

I have to do something though. I need a towing vehicle bad. I may start looking at different trucks.

rockman20 · 08-03-2005, 10:02 AM

The converter is a lockup, yes.

Chevillac · 08-03-2005, 01:30 PM

I'm not sure that your towing performance is all that bad. Skid steers vary greatly in size. How heavy is the one you were hauling?

rockman20 · 08-03-2005, 02:06 PM

I don't know the weight of the machine, but it was a New Holland LS180 with the turbo 3 cylinder diesel in it.

Actually, I just looked it up and it looks like it is around 7100 pounds. It might weigh a bit more then that because this machine has the added weights on the rear.

I guess that gas just is not the route for me. I need to find a complete 6.2 so I can do a rebuild. Or........just get that 8.2! But I have been reading up on them. Sounds like injectors are expensive and they tend to smoke bad when cold and are hard to start when cold as well.

I have to figure something out soon. I will need to start hauling gooseneck stock trailers soon that will be loaded with rodeo bulls.

08-02-2005, 12:12 PM	#2
Prerunner1982 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 5,904	just out of curiousity what size tires does your truck have? my truck has 32" tires and 3.08s, it can only break the tires loose on pavement when i turn and not always... it will however break them loose quite easily on the gravel/dirt roads i live on.... __________________ Jon 1982 Chevy Silverado 350/th350.... RETIRED 1993 Jeep XJ 2 door(Cherokee) 4wd 4.0ltr/AX-15 (5spd)/NP231 .... Oklahoma Roll Call

08-02-2005, 02:55 PM	#5
rockman20 "The dude abides" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: North Dakota Posts: 472	If memory serves me right the tires are 265 75 R 16's. Don't quote me for certain on that, but I believe that is the size. They are Hancook 10 ply tires so they are kind of heavy, but I would think on gravel it should have no problems. Dad has similar Cooper tires on his truck. His is a 92 with the throttle body fuel injected 350 and his will smoke the tire from a dead stop. The tab on the carb has already been removed. Basically that tab just keeps the secondaries from opening if the choke is on. This tab usually gets in the way and sometimes keeps the secondaries from opening at all which is why most people remove it. The bottom butterflies on the secondary are mechanical, but the top ones are vacuum. I know that they are opening though because you can hear the deep growl from the carb when those babies open. (I love that sound) I am leaning more towards transmission the more I talk about it. It seems like everything should be there for a decent pulling truck. I plan on putting a trans go shift kit in the transmission to help out with the shift points when towing. They are a little early right now. This will help some, but I am really wondering about that converter. It was a rebuilt converter that the transmission shop put in for me so what I know about it is limited. Besides I was very clear to him that it was no longer a diesel and was a gas so I wanted a converter for that application. I'm just wondering if anyone knows, did they change the valving in a 700R4 that was in a diesel compared to what a gas would be? In my mind, I would think they did just because a diesel makes its power at low RPM's where as a gasser is usually at higher RPM's. But again, maybe I am completely wrong and am expecting too much out of my truck? I should of gotten a 3/4 ton. sigh __________________ RockMan 1993 Chevy Silverado C3500 1 ton dually 1994 Honda Civic 1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S 1953 IH Farmall Super M New to the fleet: 1992 Subaru Loyal

08-02-2005, 05:06 PM	#6
arveetek Ultimate Diesel Dude Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Southwest Missouri Posts: 328	The diesel transmissions are the same as gassers, except for governors and TC's. The diesel TC's had a lower stall speed. The governors for the diesels also caused the transmission to shift a bit sooner. However, if you do have a gasser TC, then you can manually shift the tranny and rule out the tranny as any source of the "problem." What you need is a tricked out 6.2L turbo diesel back in there! Casey __________________ Project truck: '81 C/20 converted to 6.2L TURBO DIESEL bored .040", gear drive, 6.5L injectors/pump, custom pistons, custom 4" exhaust, 700R4, 4.10's Daily Driver: '95 K1500 Tahoe, 6.5L TURBO DIESEL, NP241, 4L80E, 3.42's

08-03-2005, 10:01 AM	#8
rockman20 "The dude abides" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: North Dakota Posts: 472	Trust me arveetek, I have been trying to talk dad out of his 6.2 that he has in his van. He barely drives it anyways. And I have drooled over your 6.2 buildup. I would love to have a setup like that. But for now, they are just pipe dreams. I have to do something though. I need a towing vehicle bad. I may start looking at different trucks. __________________ RockMan 1993 Chevy Silverado C3500 1 ton dually 1994 Honda Civic 1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S 1953 IH Farmall Super M New to the fleet: 1992 Subaru Loyal

08-03-2005, 10:02 AM	#9
rockman20 "The dude abides" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: North Dakota Posts: 472	The converter is a lockup, yes. __________________ RockMan 1993 Chevy Silverado C3500 1 ton dually 1994 Honda Civic 1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S 1953 IH Farmall Super M New to the fleet: 1992 Subaru Loyal

08-02-2005, 09:03 AM	#1
rockman20 "The dude abides" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: North Dakota Posts: 472	Towing Help Okay, I have a problem. I don't have enough money to buy myself a decent diesel pickup and I have shoved way more money into mine then what it is worth. So I figure I should maybe build this one to more suit my needs. Right now here is my setup. 82 Chevy Scottsdale 1/2 ton that now has 3/4 ton axles with 3.73 gears and 3/4 ton springs. The pickup was originally a diesel but the guy before me put a gasser in it. So it currently has a 350 bored 60 over. Chrome Moly rings, aluminum Edelbrock Performer Intake, Holley rebuilt Quadrajet, the cam I am still trying to figure out what cam is in it, (It should of been a Comp Cam Extreme 4 X 4 cam but I have no idea) Mallory billet distributer with stock GM HEI coil, headers with true duals, 2.5 inch exhaust into Flowmaster Delta Series mufflers, 700 R4 transmission that was suppose to have a gas torque converter put in and has gas govenor in it, K & N filter Here is my problem. On its own this truck moves pretty well. It will pull right around 13 MPG on the highway with the K & N filter (I was having some fuel economy issues before. Putting this filter on got me back to where I was before) The truck has good get up and go and moves pretty well. The only thing is it will barely chirp the tires from a dead stop which I find odd and if you are going about 30 on gravel and punch it to the floor it doesn't really break the tires loose either. And then when you put a trailer behind it, dream on! I pulled a tandem axle trailer (guessing about a 20 footer) with a New Holland skid steer on it. Wow, what a drag! It would hold 60 to 65 MPH down the road but it took a while to get there and fuel economy dropped to about 6.8 MPG. I just don't think this is right at all! It should be a bit better then that. But maybe I am crazy in my thinking? I did a compression test on the engine last night. (Engine has less then 20,000 miles on it) First off, the plugs. They all looked pretty good but I am curious as to why they were burning like this. One half of the elctrode was still clean. No deposits at all. The other half of the electrode was a brown, flaky, deposit. It really wasn't built up on the plug, but it was enough that you could flake it off if you scratched at it. Now for the results. All of the cylinders except for one had an initial compression around 115 to 120. After 4 compression strokes they all topped out around 160 to 175. #1 cylinder however had an initial compression of 90 and then topped off at 160 after that. I don't have a leak down tester so this is as far as I went. I don't think the above compression results are bad at all. #1 makes me a little curious, but I don't think it is causing my problem. I am wondering if my problem may not be tied to transmission? I wonder if that converter is not planting my power like it should. I was keeping an eye on my transmission temps and was not impressed by that either. Towing down the highway with a small auxillary cooler in line with the radiator cooler, I was seeing transmission temps right around 200 and at times 210. (This was a 90 degree day though) I am thinking that is kind of high for transmission, but I have never really towed this much before so I guess that I don't know. I know this is a lot of information, but I am just frustrated with the towing capabilities of this truck. In my opinion it should do better then this. What is my weak link here? Or am I just expecting too much out of my truck? I'm about ready to call an ad I saw in the local paper. He has a 4 ton tandem GMC truck for sale with the 8.2L turbo diesel in it. That should give me the power I want! __________________ RockMan 1993 Chevy Silverado C3500 1 ton dually 1994 Honda Civic 1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S 1953 IH Farmall Super M New to the fleet: 1992 Subaru Loyal

08-02-2005, 12:34 PM	#3
JustOneTruck Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 88	I once had a Q-Jet that acted like what your talking about. They are great for millage and HP .I had my rebuilt and was asked if I wanted a vacume pull or manuall kick down.I went manual on it .Once I had it back and on the truck it broke the wheels loose easly. If Im not mistaken the vacume way waits for the engine to make enough vacume to open up the monster secondaires and finally the pull of horse power is finally at the back wheels.

08-02-2005, 12:42 PM	#4
Prerunner1982 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 5,904	you can do this also by benting the tab out of the way that is controlled by the vac. and prevents the secondaries from opening. But this may make your truck bog down when you floor it, never done it myself, seen it done... the guy ended up replacing the old carb his did this to with a new one not long after.. i doubt it was related to doing this mod...

08-02-2005, 08:41 PM	#7
magnethead 7000 #'s of american IRON Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: north tx Posts: 883	the 3.73's seem low but i think 4.10's would help a little more on the towing end. Is it a lockup converter? that might be part of it.

08-03-2005, 01:30 PM	#10
Chevillac Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: IN Posts: 12	I'm not sure that your towing performance is all that bad. Skid steers vary greatly in size. How heavy is the one you were hauling?

08-03-2005, 02:06 PM	#11
rockman20 "The dude abides" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: North Dakota Posts: 472	I don't know the weight of the machine, but it was a New Holland LS180 with the turbo 3 cylinder diesel in it. Actually, I just looked it up and it looks like it is around 7100 pounds. It might weigh a bit more then that because this machine has the added weights on the rear. I guess that gas just is not the route for me. I need to find a complete 6.2 so I can do a rebuild. Or........just get that 8.2! But I have been reading up on them. Sounds like injectors are expensive and they tend to smoke bad when cold and are hard to start when cold as well. I have to figure something out soon. I will need to start hauling gooseneck stock trailers soon that will be loaded with rodeo bulls. __________________ RockMan 1993 Chevy Silverado C3500 1 ton dually 1994 Honda Civic 1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass S 1953 IH Farmall Super M New to the fleet: 1992 Subaru Loyal Last edited by rockman20; 08-03-2005 at 02:07 PM.



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