Anyone with non-power disc/drums? - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Slammed67 · 04-16-2002, 09:52 PM

Just wondering how hard it'd be to stop a truck without the booster but with front dics. My '57 Bel-Air had 4 wheel drums and no power and it wasn't too bad... just pulled to the left or right all the time but that's because of the front drums. I want to clean up the engine compartment more and since it won't be a daily driver, considered ditching the booster. Any toughts?

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Current project: The "HACKstoration" 1967 GMC shortbed/fleetside, 350/700R4, air bag suspension, 18" billet wheels. Other vehicle of interest: 1957 Chevy Bel-Air 4dr hard top, 283/powerglide, lowered 3-1/2" in front and 2 inches in the rear.

Web Site: jaySpot.com AOL Screen Name: Slammed67GMC Location: Kansas City, MO

Blue_71 · 04-16-2002, 09:54 PM

i dont have power brakes, it stops just fine for me. not too much pressure needed

Longhorn Man · 04-16-2002, 09:57 PM

Do it, it will require the same pedal effort as a drum/drum, but will be more responsive.
I have had 4 cars like this, and frequently drove a '71 chevy truck so equipped.

------------------
'69 G.M.C. 350/350. Trying to clean up the left over damage from the Dope-Smokin-Old-Man
I've been dubbed the Longhorn Freak/Fanatic/Expert, I just hope I can live up to it.
FINALLY got the HORNIAC...a '70 one ton Longhorn with a Pontiac 350/350 and lots of 'personality'. Check out The Longhorn Webite.
If you need a pic posted, E-mail me at longhornmail@yahoo.com
Andy, in Columbus Ohio

Slammed67 · 04-16-2002, 09:59 PM

Next ? Is there such thing as a power or non-power master cylinder? Or are they all the same?

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Current project: The "HACKstoration" 1967 GMC shortbed/fleetside, 350/700R4, air bag suspension, 18" billet wheels. Other vehicle of interest: 1957 Chevy Bel-Air 4dr hard top, 283/powerglide, lowered 3-1/2" in front and 2 inches in the rear.

Web Site: jaySpot.com AOL Screen Name: Slammed67GMC Location: Kansas City, MO

704x4 · 04-16-2002, 10:08 PM

they are the same

billogna · 04-16-2002, 10:10 PM

When I converted to discs, I drove for more than a year before I put power to them. It took about the same amount of pressure as the drums, but I was happy to be able stop in a straight line. The only reason, I put power brakes on last month was because I actually found all the brackets in a junkyard for $20. Now that I have the booster, it's nice, but there's not much room between the master cylinder and the alternator. Talk about cluttered looking.

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'69 Custom 10 SB
'66 Mustang Sprint
'77 Sportster

billogna · 04-16-2002, 10:21 PM

I kept my same master clinder when I converted to power even though I noticed LMC lists separate power and non-power versions. I also notice two different mas cyls on boosters when I'm looking at car shows, so must be either one will work. One is big with both reservoirs the same, and one has the forward reservoir bigger than the rear-- that's the one I have always used since I put on the discs.

Longhorn Man · 04-16-2002, 10:23 PM

LMC is wrong.
I think the 2 sizes you are seeing is one for drum/drum, the other for disc/drum.

------------------
'69 G.M.C. 350/350. Trying to clean up the left over damage from the Dope-Smokin-Old-Man
I've been dubbed the Longhorn Freak/Fanatic/Expert, I just hope I can live up to it.
FINALLY got the HORNIAC...a '70 one ton Longhorn with a Pontiac 350/350 and lots of 'personality'. Check out The Longhorn Webite.
If you need a pic posted, E-mail me at longhornmail@yahoo.com
Andy, in Columbus Ohio

billogna · 04-16-2002, 10:30 PM

catalog cb.29, pg.123. part # 34-4012= 71-72 w/power ; part# 4018= 71-72 w/o power. I just double-checked since it's been a couple months since I saw that.

------------------
'69 Custom 10 SB
'66 Mustang Sprint
'77 Sportster

**MikeB** · 04-16-2002, 10:46 PM

I'm re-doing my front suspension and brakes -- going to all 72 components with dropped spindles from Early Classic. When I first added disc brakes I had no vacuum booster. When I finally added the booster, I was somewhat disappointed in the difference it made. And it really clutters up the engine compartment. However, Brothers Trucks and Master Power offer boosters that are smaller and mount closer to the firewall. They charge around $400 for the entire setup -- booster, brackets, master cylinder, prop valve, and related brake lines, which is a powerful argument for manual brakes!

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MikeB
69 C-10 Fleetside, mild 383, Dart Iron Eagle 180cc heads, Crane Energizer 266 cam and 1.6 roller rockers, Edelbrock Performer manifold and 600cfm carb, HEI w/ MSD components, 1986 front spindles/disc brakes, Vintage Air in-dash, lowered 2"/3".

Slammed67 · 04-16-2002, 11:13 PM

Thanks for all the info guys! I was going to try to mount a mid-80's S-10 MC/booster on my '67, but those mount flush to the firewall, like I was wanting. However it interferes with the automatic shift lever (that the linkage hooks to). I really hate how bulky and cluttered the stock setup looks, so I think I'll just go with the master cylinder alone. Again, its' not a daily driver, so it shouldn't be a big deal.

------------------
Current project: The "HACKstoration" 1967 GMC shortbed/fleetside, 350/700R4, air bag suspension, 18" billet wheels. Other vehicle of interest: 1957 Chevy Bel-Air 4dr hard top, 283/powerglide, lowered 3-1/2" in front and 2 inches in the rear.

Web Site: jaySpot.com AOL Screen Name: Slammed67GMC Location: Kansas City, MO

SCOTI · 04-16-2002, 11:16 PM

And don't forget if your running any kind of radical cam that limits the vacuum @ low speed that pwr booster isn't gonna do a whole lot of good anyway...unless you put in a vac cannister or elect vac pump but then that's even more stuff cluttering up the engine bay.

Longhorn Man · 04-16-2002, 11:29 PM

I have non power drum/ drum, it wouldn't be a big deal on your ride even if it was a daily driver. The booster is just nice to have...onless you have the aformentioned cam. When i had my 'mild cammed' 350 in the last longhorn, even with an extra vac can, I could only hit the brakes about 4 times before they would harden up on me.

------------------
'69 G.M.C. 350/350. Trying to clean up the left over damage from the Dope-Smokin-Old-Man
I've been dubbed the Longhorn Freak/Fanatic/Expert, I just hope I can live up to it.
FINALLY got the HORNIAC...a '70 one ton Longhorn with a Pontiac 350/350 and lots of 'personality'. Check out The Longhorn Webite.
If you need a pic posted, E-mail me at longhornmail@yahoo.com
Andy, in Columbus Ohio

69 longhorn · 04-16-2002, 11:47 PM

I run a manual disc on the longhorn,& dont have any trouble stopping. I cant really say on the 67-72s on the master,but the 75 setup that I run does list a different master for power than it does for manual. It is my understanding that the manual brake cyl has a smaller piston to acheive the line pressure,without high effort at the peddle....69 longhorn.

texnician01 · 04-17-2002, 10:54 AM

I think you are right. I work at a parts store and we list two different ones too. the only difference in them is the piston size. the non power one uses a smaller piston to help achieve higher line pressue with a smaller amount of effort. otherwise they are exactly the same.

------------------
1969 C-10 292 I-6 4 spd in the middle of a restoration. going to get a 327 and 3.07 gears but keeping all of the original parts so I can put it back to original later on down the road.
55 chevy 4 door 150
47 Willys CJ-2A

Longhorn Man · 04-17-2002, 10:57 AM

What parts store you working at? I been told (by a parts store) that they are the same part # on our trucks.

------------------
'69 G.M.C. 350/350. Trying to clean up the left over damage from the Dope-Smokin-Old-Man
I've been dubbed the Longhorn Freak/Fanatic/Expert, I just hope I can live up to it.
FINALLY got the HORNIAC...a '70 one ton Longhorn with a Pontiac 350/350 and lots of 'personality'. Check out The Longhorn Webite.
If you need a pic posted, E-mail me at longhornmail@yahoo.com
Andy, in Columbus Ohio

Jesse 67 c-10 · 04-17-2002, 11:38 AM

Does anyone know if there is a way to change the pivot points on the pedal to get more leverage and thus an easier pedal on manual brakes at the expense of a bit more travel? I wouldn't mind this. Also a thing I don't like about power brakes is they don't let go as soon as you let off the pedal, there is a slight delay which I really notice on ice. I had originally planned to go with power disks but I like the cleaner look without the booster and I originally bought a master cyl supposedly for power brakes so I hope they're the same.
Jesse

------------------
Near Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. 67 c-10, Long fleet, Newly swapped front disks, 5 lug rear end, 327 v-8 with Vortech heads, edlbrock performer rpm air gap manifold, 1406 carb and comp XE 256 cam. Backed by a getrag 5 speed and 1 piece driveshaft. Finnally running, almost driving! www.geocities.com/chevy67jesse

04-16-2002, 09:52 PM	#1
Slammed67 Progress = 0% Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 2,108	Anyone with non-power disc/drums? Just wondering how hard it'd be to stop a truck without the booster but with front dics. My '57 Bel-Air had 4 wheel drums and no power and it wasn't too bad... just pulled to the left or right all the time but that's because of the front drums. I want to clean up the engine compartment more and since it won't be a daily driver, considered ditching the booster. Any toughts? ------------------ Current project: The "HACKstoration" 1967 GMC shortbed/fleetside, 350/700R4, air bag suspension, 18" billet wheels. Other vehicle of interest: 1957 Chevy Bel-Air 4dr hard top, 283/powerglide, lowered 3-1/2" in front and 2 inches in the rear. Web Site: jaySpot.com AOL Screen Name: Slammed67GMC Location: Kansas City, MO __________________ Jason - '67 GMC swb \| '57 Bel-Air 4dr hardtop \| '56 210 4dr Wagon \| 2000 GMC Sierra

04-16-2002, 09:59 PM	#4
Slammed67 Progress = 0% Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 2,108	Next ? Is there such thing as a power or non-power master cylinder? Or are they all the same? ------------------ Current project: The "HACKstoration" 1967 GMC shortbed/fleetside, 350/700R4, air bag suspension, 18" billet wheels. Other vehicle of interest: 1957 Chevy Bel-Air 4dr hard top, 283/powerglide, lowered 3-1/2" in front and 2 inches in the rear. Web Site: jaySpot.com AOL Screen Name: Slammed67GMC Location: Kansas City, MO __________________ Jason - '67 GMC swb \| '57 Bel-Air 4dr hardtop \| '56 210 4dr Wagon \| 2000 GMC Sierra

04-16-2002, 10:08 PM	#5
704x4 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Greene, Iowa Posts: 150	they are the same __________________ 70 3/4 ton 4x4 FOR SALE Greene, IA

04-16-2002, 10:10 PM	#6
billogna Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Choctaw, OK Posts: 235	When I converted to discs, I drove for more than a year before I put power to them. It took about the same amount of pressure as the drums, but I was happy to be able stop in a straight line. The only reason, I put power brakes on last month was because I actually found all the brackets in a junkyard for $20. Now that I have the booster, it's nice, but there's not much room between the master cylinder and the alternator. Talk about cluttered looking. ------------------ '69 Custom 10 SB '66 Mustang Sprint '77 Sportster __________________ '69 Chev Cust/10 swb, 350/700R4, 5"/6" '70 Chev C10 swb, 67 front, 454/700r4, 4"/5" '73 Chev stepper, 350/3 spd '84 Chev K20 350/4 spd '91 GMC 1500 Suburban 4x4, 350/700R4

04-16-2002, 10:21 PM	#7
billogna Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Choctaw, OK Posts: 235	I kept my same master clinder when I converted to power even though I noticed LMC lists separate power and non-power versions. I also notice two different mas cyls on boosters when I'm looking at car shows, so must be either one will work. One is big with both reservoirs the same, and one has the forward reservoir bigger than the rear-- that's the one I have always used since I put on the discs. __________________ '69 Chev Cust/10 swb, 350/700R4, 5"/6" '70 Chev C10 swb, 67 front, 454/700r4, 4"/5" '73 Chev stepper, 350/3 spd '84 Chev K20 350/4 spd '91 GMC 1500 Suburban 4x4, 350/700R4

04-16-2002, 09:57 PM	#3
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	Do it, it will require the same pedal effort as a drum/drum, but will be more responsive. I have had 4 cars like this, and frequently drove a '71 chevy truck so equipped. ------------------ '69 G.M.C. 350/350. Trying to clean up the left over damage from the Dope-Smokin-Old-Man I've been dubbed the Longhorn Freak/Fanatic/Expert, I just hope I can live up to it. FINALLY got the HORNIAC...a '70 one ton Longhorn with a Pontiac 350/350 and lots of 'personality'. Check out The Longhorn Webite. If you need a pic posted, E-mail me at longhornmail@yahoo.com Andy, in Columbus Ohio

04-16-2002, 10:23 PM	#8
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	LMC is wrong. I think the 2 sizes you are seeing is one for drum/drum, the other for disc/drum. ------------------ '69 G.M.C. 350/350. Trying to clean up the left over damage from the Dope-Smokin-Old-Man I've been dubbed the Longhorn Freak/Fanatic/Expert, I just hope I can live up to it. FINALLY got the HORNIAC...a '70 one ton Longhorn with a Pontiac 350/350 and lots of 'personality'. Check out The Longhorn Webite. If you need a pic posted, E-mail me at longhornmail@yahoo.com Andy, in Columbus Ohio

04-16-2002, 10:30 PM	#9
billogna Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Choctaw, OK Posts: 235	catalog cb.29, pg.123. part # 34-4012= 71-72 w/power ; part# 4018= 71-72 w/o power. I just double-checked since it's been a couple months since I saw that. ------------------ '69 Custom 10 SB '66 Mustang Sprint '77 Sportster __________________ '69 Chev Cust/10 swb, 350/700R4, 5"/6" '70 Chev C10 swb, 67 front, 454/700r4, 4"/5" '73 Chev stepper, 350/3 spd '84 Chev K20 350/4 spd '91 GMC 1500 Suburban 4x4, 350/700R4

04-16-2002, 10:46 PM	#10
MikeB Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: North Texas Posts: 3,635	I'm re-doing my front suspension and brakes -- going to all 72 components with dropped spindles from Early Classic. When I first added disc brakes I had no vacuum booster. When I finally added the booster, I was somewhat disappointed in the difference it made. And it really clutters up the engine compartment. However, Brothers Trucks and Master Power offer boosters that are smaller and mount closer to the firewall. They charge around $400 for the entire setup -- booster, brackets, master cylinder, prop valve, and related brake lines, which is a powerful argument for manual brakes! ------------------ MikeB 69 C-10 Fleetside, mild 383, Dart Iron Eagle 180cc heads, Crane Energizer 266 cam and 1.6 roller rockers, Edelbrock Performer manifold and 600cfm carb, HEI w/ MSD components, 1986 front spindles/disc brakes, Vintage Air in-dash, lowered 2"/3". __________________ Mike 1969 C10 LWB -- owned for 36 years. 350/TH350, 3.08 posi, 1st Gen Vintage Air, recent AAW wiring harness, 5-lug conversion, 1985 spindles and brakes. 1982 C10 SWB -- sold 1981 C10 Silverado LWB -- sold, but wish I still had it! 1969 C10 (not the current one) that I bought in the early 1980s. Paid $1200; sold for $1500 a few years later. Just a hint at the appreciation that was coming. Retired as a factory automation products salesman. Worked part-time over the years for an engine builder and a classic car repair shop. Member here for 24 years! This is the very first car/truck Internet forum I joined. I still used a dial-up modem back then!

04-16-2002, 11:13 PM	#11
Slammed67 Progress = 0% Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 2,108	Thanks for all the info guys! I was going to try to mount a mid-80's S-10 MC/booster on my '67, but those mount flush to the firewall, like I was wanting. However it interferes with the automatic shift lever (that the linkage hooks to). I really hate how bulky and cluttered the stock setup looks, so I think I'll just go with the master cylinder alone. Again, its' not a daily driver, so it shouldn't be a big deal. ------------------ Current project: The "HACKstoration" 1967 GMC shortbed/fleetside, 350/700R4, air bag suspension, 18" billet wheels. Other vehicle of interest: 1957 Chevy Bel-Air 4dr hard top, 283/powerglide, lowered 3-1/2" in front and 2 inches in the rear. Web Site: jaySpot.com AOL Screen Name: Slammed67GMC Location: Kansas City, MO __________________ Jason - '67 GMC swb \| '57 Bel-Air 4dr hardtop \| '56 210 4dr Wagon \| 2000 GMC Sierra

04-16-2002, 11:16 PM	#12
SCOTI Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: DALLAS,TX Posts: 22,098	And don't forget if your running any kind of radical cam that limits the vacuum @ low speed that pwr booster isn't gonna do a whole lot of good anyway...unless you put in a vac cannister or elect vac pump but then that's even more stuff cluttering up the engine bay. __________________ 67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... *Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.*

04-16-2002, 11:29 PM	#13
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	I have non power drum/ drum, it wouldn't be a big deal on your ride even if it was a daily driver. The booster is just nice to have...onless you have the aformentioned cam. When i had my 'mild cammed' 350 in the last longhorn, even with an extra vac can, I could only hit the brakes about 4 times before they would harden up on me. ------------------ '69 G.M.C. 350/350. Trying to clean up the left over damage from the Dope-Smokin-Old-Man I've been dubbed the Longhorn Freak/Fanatic/Expert, I just hope I can live up to it. FINALLY got the HORNIAC...a '70 one ton Longhorn with a Pontiac 350/350 and lots of 'personality'. Check out The Longhorn Webite. If you need a pic posted, E-mail me at longhornmail@yahoo.com Andy, in Columbus Ohio

04-16-2002, 11:47 PM	#14
69 longhorn Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: rock island,il,usa Posts: 5,382	I run a manual disc on the longhorn,& dont have any trouble stopping. I cant really say on the 67-72s on the master,but the 75 setup that I run does list a different master for power than it does for manual. It is my understanding that the manual brake cyl has a smaller piston to acheive the line pressure,without high effort at the peddle....69 longhorn. __________________ http://community.webshots.com/user/hotrodhorn

04-17-2002, 10:54 AM	#15
texnician01 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: 12 Miles South of Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 359	I think you are right. I work at a parts store and we list two different ones too. the only difference in them is the piston size. the non power one uses a smaller piston to help achieve higher line pressue with a smaller amount of effort. otherwise they are exactly the same. ------------------ 1969 C-10 292 I-6 4 spd in the middle of a restoration. going to get a 327 and 3.07 gears but keeping all of the original parts so I can put it back to original later on down the road. 55 chevy 4 door 150 47 Willys CJ-2A __________________ 69 C-10, 340HP 327 55 chevy 4 door 150 47 Willys CJ-2A 05 Harley Night Train 06 1200 Sportster (Wife's bike) 70 Honda CL350 OIF2 & OIF7 Veteran Nathan & Tiffany

04-17-2002, 10:57 AM	#16
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	What parts store you working at? I been told (by a parts store) that they are the same part # on our trucks. ------------------ '69 G.M.C. 350/350. Trying to clean up the left over damage from the Dope-Smokin-Old-Man I've been dubbed the Longhorn Freak/Fanatic/Expert, I just hope I can live up to it. FINALLY got the HORNIAC...a '70 one ton Longhorn with a Pontiac 350/350 and lots of 'personality'. Check out The Longhorn Webite. If you need a pic posted, E-mail me at longhornmail@yahoo.com Andy, in Columbus Ohio



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04-17-2002, 11:38 AM	#17
Jesse 67 c-10 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Posts: 599	Does anyone know if there is a way to change the pivot points on the pedal to get more leverage and thus an easier pedal on manual brakes at the expense of a bit more travel? I wouldn't mind this. Also a thing I don't like about power brakes is they don't let go as soon as you let off the pedal, there is a slight delay which I really notice on ice. I had originally planned to go with power disks but I like the cleaner look without the booster and I originally bought a master cyl supposedly for power brakes so I hope they're the same. Jesse ------------------ Near Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. 67 c-10, Long fleet, Newly swapped front disks, 5 lug rear end, 327 v-8 with Vortech heads, edlbrock performer rpm air gap manifold, 1406 carb and comp XE 256 cam. Backed by a getrag 5 speed and 1 piece driveshaft. Finnally running, almost driving! www.geocities.com/chevy67jesse __________________ Edmonton, Alberta, 67 c-10, Long fleet, front disks, 5 lug rear end, 327 with Vortechs, edlbrock manifold, comp cams XE 256, 600cfm carb. Backed by a getrag 5 speed and 1 piece driveshaft. 1993 Dihatsu Hijet Jumbo cab 4x4, currently converting to battery electric power.

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