? about not running inner fenders

[67Fleet]

Figured this would be the best place to ask.....
I'm getting ready to bag my 67 and I'm concerned that I will have to at least notch out my inner fenders for tire clearance. My wheels are offset enough to clear the inside of the outer fender now, but there are already scrub marks from where the tire has hit the inner fender on bigger bumps. As it is now I'm static at 5" lower up front and I've only got about 2" of room before the tire hits. I can either notch out the inner fender or remove them completely, but if I remove them completely what will that due to the structural integrity of the front clip? Will I have to do a lot of fabwork to get it all to work? It looks like the inners are a good part of the support system for the fenders and the core support.

Edit: I've got drop spindles and front disc conversion (not sure what brand as the PO did it), and running 5.25" backspacing on 20" wheels.

[bagged69c10]

i just unbolted mine but I had to also cut the inside of the fender and remove the hood hinges. It just depends on how low you want to go. The "structural integrity" seems to be fine, unless you have aftermarket fenders that are about as thick as a tin can.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by 67Fleet

It looks like the inners are a good part of the support system for the fenders and the core support.

I don't believe this to be true. They bolt to the semi-flimsy lip of the wheel opening, then tack the front and rear inside to keep that part from drooping. Fenders attach solidly to the core support, and to the cab. The connection point up front is gusseted by that small triangular piece on the top edge. If you're just trying to get clearance by pulling the inner fenders, go for it (but plan to live with a dirtier engine compartment). If you find you need to cut into the fender itself, you can take a couple of inches in an arc before you compromise the structure of the inner flat piece of the fender. Another 1/2" or so past that and you hit the hinge. If you remove the bottom hinge bolt and move it up to the "blank" hole just above, you can trim into the hinge to get another 1/2" or so. To go past that you've got to go with a different hinge solution, because you're into the actual pivot point of the hinge.

[67Fleet]

Cool, I'll be good just removing the inners then. I won't need any more than that. Thanks guys!

[N2TRUX]

How low you planning on going. The truck below has the stock inner fenders and fender liners. It doesn't have the bed cut for a big notch either....

[lvscott]

n2trucks, is that truck aired out or does it still have suspension travel. thats about were i would like my truck to be, at ride hight, and i will be running 20'' rims too.

[89 crew]

If you remove them don't take it out wen it is raining!! you will be splashing water all over that hot engine!

[67Fleet]

Originally Posted by lvscott

n2trucks, is that truck aired out or does it still have suspension travel. thats about were i would like my truck to be, at ride hight, and i will be running 20'' rims too.

Scott, if you want yours to be that low at ride height, you're gonna have to do some extensive mods, like z'ing and sectioning the front crossmember.

N2TRUX, he's got more backspacing up front than me. I guess I could always get some Intro's w/custom offset to cure my problem....
20x8 up front, 20x10 out back. Yeah, that's the ticket!

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by lvscott

n2trucks, is that truck aired out or does it still have suspension travel. thats about were i would like my truck to be, at ride hight, and i will be running 20'' rims too.

Yes, that is aired out. Like 67Fleet said if you want it that low and still have suspension travel, get the Sawzall out. Your gonna need to Z the frame, raise the crossmember, and put a big notch in the rear...

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by 67Fleet

....
N2TRUX, he's got more backspacing up front than me. I guess I could always get some Intro's w/custom offset to cure my problem....
20x8 up front, 20x10 out back. Yeah, that's the ticket!

There ya go. Heck it's only money, and in this case it's not mine...

[Hummbusa]

Does that red truck have a c-notch in the rear?

[Chevrolet4x4s]

No fender wells=dirt in engine compartment.
Shane

[special-K]

Ridin`that low is not very realistic.You won`t only need to deal with the tires/suspension coming up into the truck.Don`t forget the other side,the clearance between the bottom of your truck and that little old thing called earth.
I`d run inner fenders.Other than a wet ignition,dirty engine,and the cold on hot thing,you`ll be throwin`grit and water up into every crevice in the front of the cab just beggin`that think to turn to crap.The inner fenders are part of the truck for a reason.I know alot of guys do it,but you sure kill the driveability of the truck.Doesn`t that red truck look awesome,with inners?

[onehot69stepside]

just take them out and build new ones in. I know alot of people use trailer fenders and weld them in. Or just start screwin around with some 18 or 16 guage sheet metal Like i so desperately need to do (Special-k is right, it throughs dirt all up inside the cab and core support. You cant ever use your kick panel vents again and your front door jambs will always be full of sand). Cruise around on the owner profiles of streetsourcemag.com and im sure you will see somethin you can do. Or just have a good custom shop build you some.

[XXL]

Originally Posted by onehot69stepside

(Special-k is right, it throughs dirt all up inside the cab and core support. You cant ever use your kick panel vents again and your front door jambs will always be full of sand).

Where are you guys driving these things?

[67Fleet]

Well, my dilemna is this: Right now I've got only about 1-1/2 - 2" of room to go lower. It doesn't seem like I get ANY negative camber as it gets lower. Why is that? If I got some camber my tires would pitch in and further away from the arc of the inner fender near my wheel opening.

[special-K]

Answe:On the road for more than a few miles.

[BigDan3131]

You could get a wheel tub kit they use for drag tires and cut it to fit. Both Summit and Jegs carry them and they are bead rolled for strength.

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by Hummbusa

Does that red truck have a c-notch in the rear?

Yes it has a C-notch, but not a step notch. The bed is not cut. Take a look here for the build up thread- http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=184474

[onehot69stepside]

negative camber is when the tires go in towards the engine rather then out towards the wheel opening. Out is positive camber. And you dont get alot of camber until you take ur wheel wells out, so quit being scared and take them out and order a set of tubs and get to work! Either way It doesnt matter because if they are still in there when you bag it, I guarantee your gunna wanna go lower and yank those puppies out, and then ur gunna trim the outer fender, and then whatdya know... you need custom hood hinges after that.

[special-K]

.....and use front hinges?Looks cool in your avatar.I guess that`s why they call it "modified".Hey Hot69,lets see some pictures(or refer me to where they are posted already).To me,running w/o inner fenders is just running a truck without completing the job.That,or limiting the vehicle to be rarely driven(unless you don`t mind ruining your truck).No sweat,just an opinion.

[67Fleet]

Originally Posted by onehot69stepside

negative camber is when the tires go in towards the engine rather then out towards the wheel opening. Out is positive camber. And you dont get alot of camber until you take ur wheel wells out, so quit being scared and take them out and order a set of tubs and get to work! Either way It doesnt matter because if they are still in there when you bag it, I guarantee your gunna wanna go lower and yank those puppies out, and then ur gunna trim the outer fender, and then whatdya know... you need custom hood hinges after that.

Thanks for the lesson, but that's why I have a problem I'm having if you read my post. I'm not getting any negative camber, like I need. The inner fender attaches to the outer fender and this is the lowest point of the inner. From there, it travels upward as it goes toward the engine compartment giving the tire more room. Since my the offset of my wheel is 5.25" of BS WITH the disc conversion it doesn't have enough room to tuck more into the wheelwell for more clearance. Check my avatar pic and you'll see. THAT my friend is the issue at hand. I'm probably going to just notch the area I need for clearance and re-shape the inner fender. Lots of work, yes, but end result will be an overall cleaner appearance.

[XXL]

[QUOTE=67Fleet]I'm not getting any negative camber, like I need. /QUOTE]

Camber is on a continuum. It is (or should be) near zero at _stationary_ ride height. As the vehicle moves, any and all variations in the road will manipulate the camber slightly in either direction. This is because the front control arm suspension travels in a non-linear fashion. Using conventional lowering methods (shorter springs, bags, etc), the camber moves away from that zero point rather quickly. This is because, lowering via that technique pitches the control arms up. The camber is corrected through realignment (removing shims on these trucks, some vehicles you add). However, it's already so far through the suspension arc that those little bumps in the road have a greater effect... man, this would be easier if I were on my lappy... I've got drawings that explain this.

[67Fleet]

Some vehicles get more than others. Seems like I don't get any (that I can see anyway) as my suspension travels up and down. I know excessive camber is not a good thing, and that will lead to premature wear of tires and front end components. I guess my question is this..... Why is there little to no negative camber on my front end as the springs compress? Just seems like there should be some. Heck, I would openly accept it as long as I could get it fairly aligned at ride height. I really don't want to have to dump another $1500 minimum for new wheels with custom offsets if I don't have to, but it's looking like my options are either to do that or to notch or cut out the inner fenders at this point or my truck is not going to come down very far. It really boils down to a safety issue as well. The last thing I need is to have a problem and dump my front end while driving and bury the tires into the inner fenders.....whoops, no steering!! That could turn ugly real quick. My truck will not be a rolling hack-job and I am going to make sure it's done right the first time and I'm not bagging it until I get all these issues worked out. Thanks for all the help guys.

[onehot69stepside]

well i really dont think that even if you mod your factory fenders you will like it. When my truck was just lowered the tires were always rubbing the fenders like mad. and it rubbed on the insides not on the outside edges. I had to pretty much kiss u turns goodbye. And it wasn't even that low. I run 20's with a 245/40. I will do all that i can to convince you to tub it because I know and many other people know from experience that tubbing them up front is the safest and easiest way. ill find pics of tubs on c-10s and post them. you do know the inner fenders just unbolt right?

I say we get together and build a protype of bolt in inner fenders to lay frame! Think they would b marketable?