Can't align front end, need help.

[crawdad]

I had mentioned this problem in a thread on the 73-87 forum, but didn't get that many suggestions so I thought I would give it a try here. I put new tires on a truck I recently bought (86 Silverado, LWB) and had the front end aligned. Discovered the lower, passenger side control arm was bent on the front lower edge, just below the bushing, and there was more space between the rear of the tire and the fender on the driver side than on the passenger side. It appeared the truck had run over something and hit the lower control arm. Had to have been a good whack to bend it like it was. Truck would not come into alignment specs. I went to the salvage yard and got another lower control arm and replaced the one on there. Better, but still want come in to specs. It ended up reading 1.5 degrees negative camber (top of tire leaning in). Took it to a body shop to see if frame might have been bent. They could not find any bend in the frame. What to do next? Is it possible the upper control arm might have been bent as well? How about the spindle/steering knuckle? Could these cause the negative camber problem I'm having? Any help or ideas on what to look for would be appreciated.

[rodnok1]

Sounds like it could have bent the upper also, as for the spindle, I doubt if it was bent, they're pretty stout pieces. You could have bent mountd on the upper arm also. If it has a sway bar is it bent??

[crawdad]

Originally Posted by rodnok1

Sounds like it could have bent the upper also, as for the spindle, I doubt if it was bent, they're pretty stout pieces. You could have bent mountd on the upper arm also. If it has a sway bar is it bent??

The sway bar did not appear to be bent. I know that befor the lower control arm was replaced, the mis-alignment was much worse. After replacing the lower arm, it still would not align, but it was much better. Couldn't tell exactly what you were saying, did you say that the upper arm "mount" could have been bent? I may be wrong, but I'm leaning toward the upper a-arm being bent. If the lower a-arm was bent and replacing it made things better, I'm thinking it may have bent the upper also and maybe replacing that will solve the problem, but I don't know. I tried to get my truck put on one of the "digital" alignment machines, but the guy told me the computer did not go back that far. I had to settle with the old fashion measure it method, but the guy seem to think that the frame was ok.

[azfab]

hay do you know if the cam knockouts are out? gm came with the upper controlarms cam taps not cut out from the factory. the only way to c this is if you take one of the bolts from one came and c if its longated. this will alow the cams to be acentric.

[azfab]

lol disregard that i thoght you were talking about and 88 c1500, sorry. hay is there alot of shims one one side and not the other? and is the ride higth the same on both sides?

[bedsled71]

hummmm... strange because my truck was the same... lowercontrol arm was bent like that but i didnt have any problems .. i dont see how the top would get bent aswell. and if it did it would be a caster problem and not a camber problem

[EAST SIDE LOW LIFE]

Just curious as to what equipment the guy is using to align your tires? Does he have a computerized system or just one of those units that just strap onto your front wheels. A good alignment shop with good gear will be able to give you a print out as to all the specs with regards to your tires, frame etc. well worth the money.

esll.

[poorboy]

Is your truck stock heigth? If they have a full stack of shims and it's still -1.5 if something was tweaked it shuld be obvious. Does the truck have a pull? How's the caster? Is it both sides or just one?

[Boog]

Not knowing anything about the alignment guy who checked out your truck, he may only have been looking for some obvious frame damage like kinks and such. Having been an auto rebuilder for some years I know quite often there is frame damage not visible to the eye. It does not have to be kinked to be bent enough to not allow for an alignment. Front end alignment shops do not have all the frame specs or gauges to check for frame damage. That will have to be done at a collision repair shop. They have a frame plate to set it on and measurements to check from front to rear. Your front end shop will only be able to check the wheel alignment. If the lower control arm was bent bad enough to be replaced then there is a real good chance the frame is bent too. The truck is most likely leaning to the right side isn't it? Does it dogtrack going down the road? How does the fender to door gap look on that side? Tight at the top would indicate the front frame horn is pushed up lifting the rad core support up too.

[dwcsr]

Moog sells a upper controll arm shaft with an offset to help correct problem like yours. I have them on my 75 front end to help with this issue. MOOG Part # K6184 provides additional positive camber. They aren't cheap at $45 each but the do fix the issue on most trucks that don't have bent parts

[crawdad]

Originally Posted by Boog

Not knowing anything about the alignment guy who checked out your truck, he may only have been looking for some obvious frame damage like kinks and such. Having been an auto rebuilder for some years I know quite often there is frame damage not visible to the eye. It does not have to be kinked to be bent enough to not allow for an alignment. Front end alignment shops do not have all the frame specs or gauges to check for frame damage. That will have to be done at a collision repair shop. They have a frame plate to set it on and measurements to check from front to rear. Your front end shop will only be able to check the wheel alignment. If the lower control arm was bent bad enough to be replaced then there is a real good chance the frame is bent too. The truck is most likely leaning to the right side isn't it? Does it dogtrack going down the road? How does the fender to door gap look on that side? Tight at the top would indicate the front frame horn is pushed up lifting the rad core support up too.

I've looked at it close and I honestly can't see it leaning at all. It looks very straight with the exception of the right front tire leaning in slightly at the top. Body lines seem ok and gaps between fender and door seem ok. I had my brother drive the truck down the road while I followed alone behind him in another truck. The truck looked like it was tracking true, no off-set at all. In addition to the alignment shop, the other guy that checked my truck was a body man (colision center). He put it on his frame alignment rack. He told me that they could not see any mis-alignment. Now whether or not they actually measured it, I don't know, I wasn't there. I've had one master mechanic at the chevy dealer tell me he thought that the spindle was most likely bent. He said that the spindles on the chevy trucks of that time had somewhat weak spindles. I've found the upper control arm and another spindle to put on it. I'll try that and see if it makes a difference. Thanks so much for your input.

[crawdad]

Update: I found a body shop/collision center in another town that was willing to take a look at my truck. I took it over today and had him take a look. He walked around the truck and then asked me to raise the hood, he looked inside the engine compartment and said "uh-huh". He told me he was looking at the problem. Seems this guy and his brother have worked on hundreds of these model chevy's and aligned a lot of them that had this very same problem. Seems the passenge side frame rail, right above the cradle was leaning in toward the engine, hence the negative camber problem I was having. He told me that a lot of chevy trucks have this problem and its almost always on the same side. He went on to tell me it was a simple fix and they could have it ready for me tomorrow. Ask me if I'm a happy camper.

[Boog]

Uh huh...I thought so. It is a somewhat common problem. And one that most cannot see just by the eye. Most frame alignment shops will have a tram and other measuring tools to check all this and a book or pc program to look up all the factory measurements to enable them to put it back to fact specs.
Thing is finding a shop that's interested in spending the time to work on an older one.
I have seen numerous bent spindles and control arms over the years and they are very hard to tell if they're bent or not due to their shape unless they are WAY bent.
I hope this takes care of your alignment now.

[chevydog66]

I was just going to say to get a 2nd opinion, and take it to a more knowledgeable alignment/frame shop.