Stock trailing arms + bags: notch necessary?

[Jet Blue 68]

Hi Everyone!

I've got a 68 SWB I am needing help with. Right now everything is stock, 6 lugs and drums. An upcoming disc brake and rearend change make it a good time to go ahead and bag it also. I've took a few measurements and have a couple questions... (I'll try to get some pics sometime later this week.) I plan to bag my truck very basic, and have been very skiddish of notching, so after obsessing and crawling under the truck with a tape measure here's what I've came up with.
From my rear trailing arms to my frame I have appx. 10-11 inches of travel. Which is obviously also the height of my rear coil springs... From research a compressed bag is about 3 inches, so that leaves 7-8 inches of lift or drop. My rearend is 6 1/2 - 7 inches from the frame (bottomed out)...
I don't really plan on riding around "aired out" all the time, probably only when parked, so other than an extra 1-2 inchs of space above the axle- what do I gain? Does it really allow it to sit 2-3 inches lower? I know I'm probably missing something here, but it's hard to argue with a measuring tape and yourself- ya know?From what I can tell, bottomed out = bottomed out. Trailing arm vs. frame is no different from frame vs. axle... or is it?
I'm sure this is a very common setup (staying mostly stock), so I know someone with some experience can help. I'm not ashamed to say and have never bagged a vehicle. Also if anybody out there is running a no notch airbag setup with some pics they could throw this way that would be cool too... I'm talkin side profiles, frame/rearend/bag set up pic, anything ya'll think might help me get started. I'm trying to see how low I can get without "major" modification. Thanks!

[Spray-Bomb]

Im not a fan of notching, to me it is the easy way out

If you put any sort of notch (even a bolt in which is only about 2-1/4" deep) you are going to have to cut a hole in your bed floor for the top of you pumpkin to poke through

If you just bolt a bag in place of your coil spring then at full dump, you wont gain much by notching unless you run a drop block between you axle & your trailing arm

One good thing you get out of it, is the ability to ride pretty low without bottoming out into the frame as much

Also to dump all the way in the rear you will need to trim your bump stops down
And from what I remember when the axle is touching the frame your bags are very close to being bottomed out all the way (which you dont really want them being bottomed out all the way, just as a extra precaution even though a lot of them have bump stops built it)

Here is the truck I had running no notch in the rear with Slam Specialties RE-7s (If I had it to do over again, I would prolly run RE-6s in the rear)

This was pretty much ride height (in the front a had a modified LCA set up, but you could get buy with some drop spindles instead)


Dump in the rear... sry I dont have pics of front & rear both dumped

[Jet Blue 68]

Thanks spraybomb.

Ok. So basically I'm right then? You would need to run drop blocks also in order to have a big gain in drop from a notch... That makes sense. Replacing the springs with bags would kinda be like putting a 3 in spacer between your control arms and frame. (simulating a deflated bag) This is what I was planning in order to "visualize" what my truck would look like "laid out" with no notch. But looking at your pic is much less labor intensive

I'm not a huge fan of notching either, I've been debating on it though. I'm a bit skeptical that an under the bed notch is as strong or stronger than a stock frame. I probably won't ever haul anything except a motorcycle or small trailer, but I do want my truck low. I don't need to lay frame or anything. That's why I'm looking at a basic airbag kit. Ride height & parked aired out stance. So I'll fit it with the kids my age... ha ha

I'm trying to avoid a huge rake, I'm ok with 2 inches or maybe 3 from back to front, similar to stock. Do you think if I put short cups and bags in the front and drop spindles that it would be too low (compared to the rear)? When I get finished I hope to be able to ride around about 5 inches lower than stock at ride height, but am I putting off the inevitable? Will I have to notch my truck to be happy?

I've heard that about 4-5 inches of drop is the most I can go without cutting up stuff... Damn if that's the case I might just go with lowering springs on this truck and buy a rougher one to cut up!! (Although I'm sure someone out there would look at my truck and say, "You're afraid to cut up that rusty old thing? Just do it wuss!") After all, I only have about $1200 in it the way it sits... but it's still a )

[Spray-Bomb]

Basically if you run short cups & drop spindles, your front would be like the pic above at ride height

I say go springs unless you wanna try to look kinda cool & dump it at park
But then again dont pull up to a truck that lays frame & dump it, cuz you'll look stupid

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by Spray-Bomb

If you put any sort of notch (even a bolt in which is only about 2-1/4" deep) you are going to have to cut a hole in your bed floor for the top of you pumpkin to poke through

Not entirely true. You can run a mild notch and not cut your bed.

It will look like this....

[pissonNOS]

call me ignorant but i dont get the whole notch= easy way out comment?? i wasnted a nice clean look with a hole in the box for the top of the pumpkin to poke thru with out having to put ina step notch and or a 4 link? i dont really call that an easy way out id call it more of just another option for bags. and for the original question, i have re-7s and 2 1/2 drop blocks undet the axles with a cpp notch and my pumpkin comes thru the bed about the thickness of my oak boards IMO it was well worth the effort to get rid of the rake and gain those extra inches but as spray bomb said a drop but is a must IMO if ur running a c notch

[kizer]

Ok, I have dumb question or maybe it just sounds dumb.

Looking at Spray-Bombs truck his laid out rear and his normal ride height front end is well what I want for laid out. Meaning I don't really want to sit super low.

So I'm guessing if I just bag my truck front and rear I wouldn't need the front spindles unless I plan on lowering the front end down lower than factory for ride?

The reason I don't want to be really low for ride is well I don't want to be annoyed by the local police and I really only want the low when I'm parked. I promise to avoid the laying frame guys. Hahahaha

Well actually I'd like my rear and my front to be level during ride height and laid out so I guess I might need lowering blocks, which sounds like I would need to notch unless they make a shorter bag?

[Jet Blue 68]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

Not entirely true. You can run a mild notch and not cut your bed.

It will look like this....

This is what I'm talkin bout!! Exactly what I want. Full drop with no interference. Your truck looks sweet! Can you tell me a little about your set-up and what size rims/tires you're running?

[Spray-Bomb]

Originally Posted by kizer

Ok, I have dumb question or maybe it just sounds dumb.

Looking at Spray-Bombs truck his laid out rear and his normal ride height front end is well what I want for laid out. Meaning I don't really want to sit super low.

So I'm guessing if I just bag my truck front and rear I wouldn't need the front spindles unless I plan on lowering the front end down lower than factory for ride?

Well actually I'd like my rear and my front to be level during ride height and laid out so I guess I might need lowering blocks, which sounds like I would need to notch unless they make a shorter bag?

In the front, you are correct
You only need drop spindles if you want the front to ride lower without it cambering
You can just replace your coil spring with a bag, spacer cup, & upper bag plate & ride pretty close to stock height if you want

And if I read what you are saying correctly, you want to ride at my ride height in the front & my dump in the rear

In order for you to do that, you will need to bag the front like I just mentioned, but with drop spindles too
And in the rear you will either have to put in a step notch or Z the frame, as you need a minimum of roughly 5" of downward travel (some may say more & some may say less, but that is a good common number)

So in the rear to ride where my truck is dumped you are not going to get away without cutting up your bed

Hope that answered your questions

[Jet Blue 68]

OK after checkin out pics and making a few calls I guess notches & drop spindles it is. I don't care bout the frame layers, most of them will be in 88-98 models, and I'm sure they'd trade their heaps for my classic (they wish)
I want to drop it but don't want to cut a hole in the bed. I called ART today and they said a rear kit was $2000. Wish I woulda ordered one back when they were $1500... but anyways the salesman said the rearend wouldn't interfere with the bed floor... That's what I'm shooting for... and not having to fabricate would be nice but...
From what I've found out here, I'm seriously thinking I could get away with just a bolt in notch, a couple bags, brackets, and drop blocks. For like $500. I know I'll have to do more work but at $10 an hour (my friend givin me a killer deal I think for helping me & letting me use his shop) that would give us 150 hours of labor. Or another $1500 to spend, on the front suspension. Duh right? Puts me almost back on budget anyway..
I do have another question, which should put my mind at ease on this whole deal: Does the drop in the block/axle give enough clearance for the airbag? (Trailing arm vs. Frame) With my measurements in post #1, in my mind this all works out. (Maybe this will answer your question too, Kizer.) I measured that I would need another 2 inches, so that would be a 2 inch block leaving 1/4 inch for the "standard" 2 1/4 under the bed notch. If I'm understanding everything right it works out "perfect" this way. A notch would give a little more room than I need. I would just need to measure so I have about 1/2 inch or less from the top of the differential to the bed floor at full drop. Adjust my brackets accordingly. Hopefully this will work with the above setup, what do you ya'll think? Is this the secret recipe?

[72hotrodder]

what part of tn is crossville? if its close to mid-south tn i could give ya some help on it

[Spray-Bomb]

With a block & a notch you are basically just making it ride lower & dump lower by the thickness of the block, just as long as the block & the notch are the same depth / thickness

You will also need longer U-bolts with the drop blocks
And Im not sure if you will need to shim the rear for the pinion angle or not

[72BlckButy]

Jet Blue... we are going to need some pics of your truck...

[Spray-Bomb]

I second that

[c10addict]

Here is my 68... Bagged with 2 inch drop spindles, and a 3" block in the rear. We notched the frame but not above the top rail.. When aired out the pumpkin just touches the bed floor and the front tires hit the inner fenders... Nothing comes through the bed... Hope this helps..

[Spray-Bomb]

Do you have any pics of it at ride height ???

[c10addict]

Originally Posted by Spray-Bomb

Do you have any pics of it at ride height ???

Not in this computer.. I will check at home.. Probably because when I park it I dump it and I am the one taking the pics...

[Jet Blue 68]

Originally Posted by 72hotrodder

what part of tn is crossville? if its close to mid-south tn i could give ya some help on it

It's about halfway between Nashville & Knoxville on I-40

[Jet Blue 68]

C10Addict,

Awesome! Truck looks very nice by the way. If I can get mine looking half as nice- that's what I'm wanting to do. Quick question though, what size wheels/tires are you running? I see it's staggered, and that's why I'm asking. I heard for every 2 inches bigger the back wheels, you "visually gain" an inch of drop in the rear... (just by the rim being further up in the fender well) Plus it's nice to know the max size I could run. Thanks!

[c10addict]

Originally Posted by Jet Blue 68

C10Addict,

Awesome! Truck looks very nice by the way. If I can get mine looking half as nice- that's what I'm wanting to do. Quick question though, what size wheels/tires are you running? I see it's staggered, and that's why I'm asking. I heard for every 2 inches bigger the back wheels, you "visually gain" an inch of drop in the rear... (just by the rim being further up in the fender well) Plus it's nice to know the max size I could run. Thanks!

Thanks... 4 years worth of work went in to my 68... I'm running 18's and 20's with a 245/50/18 on the front and a 255/50/20 on the rear... As much as I love my 68 I have had much more fun with my 64 bein a beat up shop truck... its got a kp notch in the rear and a dropmember in the front... pics in my album under my profile..

[c10addict]

Originally Posted by Spray-Bomb

Do you have any pics of it at ride height ???

Found one... First pic bagged at ride heigth... The other two were static drop before I pulled the trigger on the air ride..

[Spray-Bomb]

Nice

[Jet Blue 68]

Hi again guys. I downloaded some pics off my girlfriends digital camera, and tried to upload them, but it wouldn't work. I think the size might be too big or something... haven't had a lot of time lately. I had a spell of bad luck this past week. Tree fell and hit my daily driver, 2 days later got a nail in my back tire (the $&@* went thru the sidewall kind) and woke up to septic problems. Oh well. Can't let that get me down right? It does screw up my budget though. I've decided to take the "do it yourself, do it in steps, and don't mess up!" plan. From what I've seen here I believe I can get away with my rear set up as planned and use short cups and drop spindles in the front (as spraybomb suggested) and I'll be happy!! I know how the top bracket works on the front, but does the bottom cup(spacer) just bolt onto the lower control arm or what? I assumed they all welded in but heard something about bolt in ones... Once I get the posting pics thing workin for me I plan on a build thread. To help all the other new-bies like me!!

[Spray-Bomb]

The spacer cups bolt to the bottom of the bag & just "float" in the LCA like the springs did

[kizer]

Originally Posted by Spray-Bomb

In the front, you are correct
You only need drop spindles if you want the front to ride lower without it cambering
You can just replace your coil spring with a bag, spacer cup, & upper bag plate & ride pretty close to stock height if you want

And if I read what you are saying correctly, you want to ride at my ride height in the front & my dump in the rear

In order for you to do that, you will need to bag the front like I just mentioned, but with drop spindles too
And in the rear you will either have to put in a step notch or Z the frame, as you need a minimum of roughly 5" of downward travel (some may say more & some may say less, but that is a good common number)

So in the rear to ride where my truck is dumped you are not going to get away without cutting up your bed

Hope that answered your questions

Well sorta.

I want my truck to "layout" like yours sits in this photo. I guess if I was to air up it would sit close to factory height.



I think I'll create another topic later when I'm close so I don't threadjack anymore.