53 Subframe swap CUMMINS - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

ccoxva · 03-03-2009, 01:53 PM

This is my first post on here just to tell everyone hello and this is a great site. I have a 1953 1/2ton and was needing some advice. I am wanting to see what subframe would you guys recomend to put a 6bt cummins in this truck. These engines weigh est.1000 lbs. Length 3ft 1/4in. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Chris

blackdiesel · 03-03-2009, 02:12 PM

I've got a 46 1.5 ton and a 12v cummins that I've been look at for a while. But it's way long and tall and heavy. Not sayin it can't be done, I'm just sayin.

mylow53 · 03-03-2009, 03:22 PM

dont they have a 4 banger 4bt that should work
GT

OrrieG · 03-03-2009, 05:16 PM

What transmission are you going to run? Assuming it is heavier too your are adding almost twice as much weight as the frame was originally designed for. Most ISF setups are designed around a worse case scenario of BBC w/ auto trans which weighs approximately what the diesel does by itself. I think you will be into a custom design, or later model truck front clip which will have tire track width issues. It will also probably sit pretty high. In one of the truck magazines last year there was an article on an older International that was custom built around one of their diesels for an anniversery or something. My recollection was it had a custom frame and suspension and the cab was extended so the firewall could be moved into the cab. A search of this site listed a number of threads on this too.

thirdstreettito · 03-03-2009, 05:40 PM

I wouldn't suggest a 6bt in a 1/2t, get a 4bt, it'll fit better and only weighs a little more than a small block Chevy, so it wont put much stress on the front end like a 6bt would.

Terraizer · 03-03-2009, 05:51 PM

A 4BT would be a better choice in a 1/2 ton pickup then a 6bt. The 4BT weighs 727LBS dry alot more then a small block chevy. I'am building a 1937 D-15 International with a 1989 CPL858 4BT cummins and NV4500, i'am using a cut down 1987 S-10 chassis with Iroc Camero front springs (i think they are 650LB springs instead of the S-10 350lb) and setting the engine as far back as i can to get some of the weight off the front end so the steering is not so heavy.

**mr48chev** · 03-03-2009, 09:45 PM

The 6bt has way too much torque for a half ton frame let alone the extra weight.

when they first came out in Dodge pickups they had trouble with them twisting the frames and had to go to the heavier frames.
I can see possibly putting that engine in an AD 1 ton or larger chassis but can't see the wisdom of putting it in a lighter chassis.
There is a 4Bt board where guys are sticking those engines in just about everything that they will fit in with quite a bit of success.

ccoxva · 03-03-2009, 11:03 PM

I was wanting to see if anyone else had done the swap. I have everything for the tube chassis but need some input on the front clip. The prob I have found was what some of you said the width issue with the later front end. Will go 6bt if possible if not turbo sbc. The 4bt is a little under powered for what I want for the truck. I just put one in a 1 ton dually 4 wheel drive. Easy swap but I am just wanting the power of a p-pumped 6bt. I even considered radiator in the bed and the turbo's under the truck. ? Crazy huh. My wife will be more for the cummins build she loves em. That means easier to get money. On you tube a guy put one in a 2000 ranger 2wd. Sits low and everything looks stock. How did he do that. Just thinkin if he can do that to a little ranger I could do it to one of our trucks.Thank you guys for your input but lets hear some more.

PDW HOTRODS · 03-04-2009, 12:33 AM

The springs are only 1 issue, with that much more weight you need a whole clip set up for the weight. The S-10 wheel bearings probably won' handle it very well, along with other parts. You would need to beef up everything.

**mr48chev** · 03-04-2009, 02:01 AM

Take a serious look at what Mobileortho did with the crossmember out of a squarebody in http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=330048 Scroll down to post #13.

That setup would work with the heavier engine and the way he show it it will easily tuck the tires under the fenders. It should be pretty easy to use it with a frame that is stout enough to handle the Diesel in a half ton.

ccoxva · 03-04-2009, 08:31 AM

I got one of those frames too from a 85 3/4 ton.

**mr48chev** · 03-04-2009, 10:21 AM

He didn't use the whole frame, he just used the front suspension and narrowed it to fit the 53 chassis. It may sit a bit high for most custom truck guys tastes but may be right for what you are looking for.

blackdiesel · 03-05-2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccoxva

The 4bt is a little under powered for what I want for the truck.

???? a four cylinder cummins is capable of 400-450 hp. thats more power than any new truck. just what exactly are you going to be doing with this "stock appearing" pickup anyways? Hotshot? Truck pulls?

b00sted · 03-05-2009, 10:09 AM

400-450rwhp is a very long reach for the 4bt....

More of a warmed over 4bt to be in the 200-300 range for a hot one... I have thought of the cummins swap before myself... If money was not an object I would do the duramax swap...

The 4bt is a cute little motor but it is limited on hp and mpg is not that great to start with...

blackdiesel · 03-05-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b00sted

400-450rwhp is a very long reach for the 4bt....

More of a warmed over 4bt to be in the 200-300 range for a hot one... I have thought of the cummins swap before myself... If money was not an object I would do the duramax swap...

The 4bt is a cute little motor but it is limited on hp and mpg is not that great to start with...

hardly. a modified injector pump designed to flow many more cc's than stock, dv's, injectors, little bit of head work like port and polish and o rings with a good set of studs with a moderate turbo and you would have more hp (but mainly torque) than you could hook with out a 4 link spooled rear end with slicks.

if you leave it closer to stock i'm sure it would get as good of fuel milage as my 6 cylinder cummins does in my 02 dodge 3500. My best milage to date is 20 mpg, hand calculated in a 8100 lbs truck. I've seen 4 cylinders get 25+ mpg in smaller trucks that they have been swapped into, much like that the OP is talking about.

b00sted · 03-05-2009, 04:08 PM

I for one would say if he was going to go 4bt to look at the 4btaa. Also make sure it has the p 3000 pump instead of the old VE rotary pump. Yes you can make HP wiht them.. But it does have allot shorter limit than the 6bt..

I love my cummins and it is driven everyday... Shoot I just race a c5 from a 55mph roll and pulled him by 2 truck lengths all the way past the 120 mph mark...

Now I am thinking of a 4bt again....LOL

blackdiesel · 03-05-2009, 06:29 PM

hey boosted, You might like my youtube of my truck, before I detund it.

YouTube - Dodge Cummins Diesel Smoky Burnout

b00sted · 03-05-2009, 07:35 PM

I love it.. What turbo did you have on it because I know the stocker does not like 45 psi...LOL... I have a short video of mine rolling coal while I am driving and taping and shifting and trying to keep the boost down because the road was damp.. I see if I can't post it up for ya..

blackdiesel · 03-05-2009, 08:24 PM

It's a sps62 All mods at start of vid. What are you runnin?

b00sted · 03-05-2009, 08:46 PM

P&P head, valve springs, A stretched to the max BD Special, SO Pump, 240hp Sticks, FASS 150, AFE Stage 2 and a con fe that is not liking all this at all with the Edge Huice w/attitude with the Hot unlock...

I have been pushing my luck with 55lbs of boost and no studs yet.. But very soon and and the head gets o ringed..

99cummins.flv video by TurbHayabusa - Photobucket

ccoxva · 03-06-2009, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackdiesel

???? a four cylinder cummins is capable of 400-450 hp. thats more power than any new truck. just what exactly are you going to be doing with this "stock appearing" pickup anyways? Hotshot? Truck pulls?

Never said I wanted my truck stock appering? Its gonna be chopped and tubbed w/ 9in and ladder bar setup. Now all those mods you posted you are talkin about a p-pumped 4 bt I cant afford one of them. You could buy 1 and a 1/2 6bt for the price do half the mods and have more power.

blackdiesel · 03-06-2009, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccoxva

Never said I wanted my truck stock appering? Its gonna be chopped and tubbed w/ 9in and ladder bar setup. Now all those mods you posted you are talkin about a p-pumped 4 bt I cant afford one of them. You could buy 1 and a 1/2 6bt for the price do half the mods and have more power.

on a p-pumped motor you can do much of it yourself with out spending money. as in grinding your own fuel plate, washer gsk, etc. you might be out a few hundred for a set of injectors, and you might pick up a bigger used turbo for cheap.

all i'm saying is that a 4 cylinder cummins is capable of alot more than you giving it credit for

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxxDx...layer_embedded

b00sted · 03-06-2009, 09:56 AM

blackdiesel.. Have you looked around to see what a 4btaa would cost that has th ep pump 3000? around $4000 for one.. I have a buddy down here with a 95 12 vlave 4x4 that was stolen then recovered.. The body and interior is shot... and he wants $1500 for it.. A 6bt is allot cheaper... I think that is what he is eluding to about the cost...

CCOXVA ---- Great Idea and plan for one of these.. I am excited to see what it looks like once you do it so please keep a post on here with progress...

blackdiesel · 03-06-2009, 11:58 AM

i agree, however i did not say to go buy a 4 cylinder that has already been pulled out of a rig. yeah, they want wayyy to much for them. You could find a wrecked bread truck just as easily as you found a wrecked dodge pickup and get the motor out of it for the same price (maybe cheaper)

If you go price a 6bt at a salvage yard, expecically if its already been pulled, they was 4-5k for them. you have to compare the two of them equally. i just know that it would be much easier to install a 4 cylinder than a 6

ccoxva · 03-07-2009, 08:18 AM

This is what I am curious about? How did it fit or the front end hold it???

YouTube - Cummins Ranger

03-03-2009, 02:12 PM	#2
blackdiesel Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Omaha, Arkansas Posts: 929	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS I've got a 46 1.5 ton and a 12v cummins that I've been look at for a while. But it's way long and tall and heavy. Not sayin it can't be done, I'm just sayin. __________________ '57 Chevy Pickup '56 GMC LCF Cummins '38 Chrysler Royal '57 2wd change http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...light=speedway

03-03-2009, 03:22 PM	#3
mylow53 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: thousand oaks, California Posts: 732	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS dont they have a 4 banger 4bt that should work GT __________________ Greg 1953 chevy 1/2 ton 5 window, chevy 350 330 horse 700r tranz, lowering spindels mustang 2 frount. ford 9", airbags on 4 corners . purchased in 1983 for $325 while in high school http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=215079&page=5

03-03-2009, 05:16 PM	#4
OrrieG Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Idaho Posts: 8,800	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS What transmission are you going to run? Assuming it is heavier too your are adding almost twice as much weight as the frame was originally designed for. Most ISF setups are designed around a worse case scenario of BBC w/ auto trans which weighs approximately what the diesel does by itself. I think you will be into a custom design, or later model truck front clip which will have tire track width issues. It will also probably sit pretty high. In one of the truck magazines last year there was an article on an older International that was custom built around one of their diesels for an anniversery or something. My recollection was it had a custom frame and suspension and the cab was extended so the firewall could be moved into the cab. A search of this site listed a number of threads on this too. __________________ 1959 Chevy Short Fleetside w/ 74 4WD drive train (current project) OrrieG Build Thread 1964 Chevelle Malibu w/ 355-350TH (daily driver) Helpful AD and TF Manual Site Old Car Manual Project

03-03-2009, 05:40 PM	#5
thirdstreettito Resident of Here Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wesley Chapel, FL, USA Posts: 7,716	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS I wouldn't suggest a 6bt in a 1/2t, get a 4bt, it'll fit better and only weighs a little more than a small block Chevy, so it wont put much stress on the front end like a 6bt would. __________________ ~Bradley~ 2004 Black GTO LS2/T56 too much to list Miss having a truck

03-03-2009, 05:51 PM	#6
Terraizer Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Penrose Colorado Posts: 26	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS A 4BT would be a better choice in a 1/2 ton pickup then a 6bt. The 4BT weighs 727LBS dry alot more then a small block chevy. I'am building a 1937 D-15 International with a 1989 CPL858 4BT cummins and NV4500, i'am using a cut down 1987 S-10 chassis with Iroc Camero front springs (i think they are 650LB springs instead of the S-10 350lb) and setting the engine as far back as i can to get some of the weight off the front end so the steering is not so heavy. __________________ 1971 Chevy C-20 2x4 Grandpas old truck soon to be 4wheeldrive

03-03-2009, 01:53 PM	#1
ccoxva Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Galax, Virginia Posts: 8	53 Subframe swap CUMMINS This is my first post on here just to tell everyone hello and this is a great site. I have a 1953 1/2ton and was needing some advice. I am wanting to see what subframe would you guys recomend to put a 6bt cummins in this truck. These engines weigh est.1000 lbs. Length 3ft 1/4in. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Chris

03-03-2009, 09:45 PM	#7
mr48chev Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toppenish, WA Posts: 15,710	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS The 6bt has way too much torque for a half ton frame let alone the extra weight. when they first came out in Dodge pickups they had trouble with them twisting the frames and had to go to the heavier frames. I can see possibly putting that engine in an AD 1 ton or larger chassis but can't see the wisdom of putting it in a lighter chassis. There is a 4Bt board where guys are sticking those engines in just about everything that they will fit in with quite a bit of success.

03-03-2009, 11:03 PM	#8
ccoxva Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Galax, Virginia Posts: 8	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS I was wanting to see if anyone else had done the swap. I have everything for the tube chassis but need some input on the front clip. The prob I have found was what some of you said the width issue with the later front end. Will go 6bt if possible if not turbo sbc. The 4bt is a little under powered for what I want for the truck. I just put one in a 1 ton dually 4 wheel drive. Easy swap but I am just wanting the power of a p-pumped 6bt. I even considered radiator in the bed and the turbo's under the truck. ? Crazy huh. My wife will be more for the cummins build she loves em. That means easier to get money. On you tube a guy put one in a 2000 ranger 2wd. Sits low and everything looks stock. How did he do that. Just thinkin if he can do that to a little ranger I could do it to one of our trucks.Thank you guys for your input but lets hear some more.

03-04-2009, 12:33 AM	#9
PDW HOTRODS Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sutherlin Oregon Posts: 502	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS The springs are only 1 issue, with that much more weight you need a whole clip set up for the weight. The S-10 wheel bearings probably won' handle it very well, along with other parts. You would need to beef up everything.

03-04-2009, 02:01 AM	#10
mr48chev Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toppenish, WA Posts: 15,710	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS Take a serious look at what Mobileortho did with the crossmember out of a squarebody in http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=330048 Scroll down to post #13. That setup would work with the heavier engine and the way he show it it will easily tuck the tires under the fenders. It should be pretty easy to use it with a frame that is stout enough to handle the Diesel in a half ton. Last edited by mr48chev; 03-04-2009 at 02:06 AM.

03-04-2009, 08:31 AM	#11
ccoxva Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Galax, Virginia Posts: 8	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS I got one of those frames too from a 85 3/4 ton.

03-04-2009, 10:21 AM	#12
mr48chev Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toppenish, WA Posts: 15,710	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS He didn't use the whole frame, he just used the front suspension and narrowed it to fit the 53 chassis. It may sit a bit high for most custom truck guys tastes but may be right for what you are looking for.

03-05-2009, 10:09 AM	#14
b00sted Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Midland GA Posts: 332	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS 400-450rwhp is a very long reach for the 4bt.... More of a warmed over 4bt to be in the 200-300 range for a hot one... I have thought of the cummins swap before myself... If money was not an object I would do the duramax swap... The 4bt is a cute little motor but it is limited on hp and mpg is not that great to start with... __________________ 1949 Chevy 408 CID stroker 6.0l with a few add ons, 4l80E, 4 Wheel Disk Brakes and a set of GT35 going on soon. Last edited by b00sted; 03-05-2009 at 10:10 AM.

03-05-2009, 04:08 PM	#16
b00sted Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Midland GA Posts: 332	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS I for one would say if he was going to go 4bt to look at the 4btaa. Also make sure it has the p 3000 pump instead of the old VE rotary pump. Yes you can make HP wiht them.. But it does have allot shorter limit than the 6bt.. I love my cummins and it is driven everyday... Shoot I just race a c5 from a 55mph roll and pulled him by 2 truck lengths all the way past the 120 mph mark... Now I am thinking of a 4bt again....LOL __________________ 1949 Chevy 408 CID stroker 6.0l with a few add ons, 4l80E, 4 Wheel Disk Brakes and a set of GT35 going on soon.

03-05-2009, 07:35 PM	#18
b00sted Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Midland GA Posts: 332	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS I love it.. What turbo did you have on it because I know the stocker does not like 45 psi...LOL... I have a short video of mine rolling coal while I am driving and taping and shifting and trying to keep the boost down because the road was damp.. I see if I can't post it up for ya.. __________________ 1949 Chevy 408 CID stroker 6.0l with a few add ons, 4l80E, 4 Wheel Disk Brakes and a set of GT35 going on soon.



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03-05-2009, 08:24 PM	#19
blackdiesel Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Omaha, Arkansas Posts: 929	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS It's a sps62 All mods at start of vid. What are you runnin? __________________ '57 Chevy Pickup '56 GMC LCF Cummins '38 Chrysler Royal '57 2wd change http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...light=speedway Last edited by blackdiesel; 03-05-2009 at 08:25 PM.

03-06-2009, 09:56 AM	#23
b00sted Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Midland GA Posts: 332	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS blackdiesel.. Have you looked around to see what a 4btaa would cost that has th ep pump 3000? around $4000 for one.. I have a buddy down here with a 95 12 vlave 4x4 that was stolen then recovered.. The body and interior is shot... and he wants $1500 for it.. A 6bt is allot cheaper... I think that is what he is eluding to about the cost... CCOXVA ---- Great Idea and plan for one of these.. I am excited to see what it looks like once you do it so please keep a post on here with progress... __________________ 1949 Chevy 408 CID stroker 6.0l with a few add ons, 4l80E, 4 Wheel Disk Brakes and a set of GT35 going on soon. Last edited by b00sted; 03-06-2009 at 09:57 AM.

03-06-2009, 11:58 AM	#24
blackdiesel Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Omaha, Arkansas Posts: 929	Re: 53 Subframe swap CUMMINS i agree, however i did not say to go buy a 4 cylinder that has already been pulled out of a rig. yeah, they want wayyy to much for them. You could find a wrecked bread truck just as easily as you found a wrecked dodge pickup and get the motor out of it for the same price (maybe cheaper) If you go price a 6bt at a salvage yard, expecically if its already been pulled, they was 4-5k for them. you have to compare the two of them equally. i just know that it would be much easier to install a 4 cylinder than a 6 __________________ '57 Chevy Pickup '56 GMC LCF Cummins '38 Chrysler Royal '57 2wd change http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...light=speedway

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