Your thoughts on this motor I got for my truck

[originalJD]

Ok. The supposed 327 that was in the 80 Camaro I got from the guy down the street is a 350. Here's where everything becomes complicated....

CASTING NUMBER OF THIS BLOCK....
3970010= 69-79/ 350cid/ 185-370hp/ 2or4 bolt/ Car, Truck, Vette
Also
3970010= 1968/ 327cid/ unrated,hp/ 2 bolt/ a=all

THE SUFFIX CODE OF THE BLOCK
V0214TJZ= Flint/ Feb.14th/ 1973/ 350cid/ 4bolt/ truck
________________________________________________________

CASTING NUMBER OF CYLINDER HEADS....
3927186= 68-69/ 302cid/ 2.02intake/ 1.6exhaust


This motor IS a 350 because the suffix code tells me it is. Although the heads are 202's they were built specifically for a 302cid. Now, My thoughts on this and who ever rebuilt this motor. I beleive the only number used for identifying this motor was the casting number. As a result of this, I have to wonder if a 327cid crank was used and if the cam size was choosen useing 327cid specs. Also, if this is the case, then what results can I expect when trying to get the motor running.

If you have any suggestions let me know.

Just thought you might find this interesting
James


Here's a couple of pics of it just for the heck of it......

[protrash64]

There were 2 main journal sizes for 327 cranks, and I dont think either of them matched a 350.....could be wrong. Heads were used for the bigger valves, but IMO none of this matters as long as the combo runs well together.

[originalJD]

Oh, and by the way. This motor does run. I got it running before I bought the car. It ran really rough and had a bad problem with fouling the plugs. I think it has to do with more than just the timing.

[protrash64]

Maybe its got a wicked cam to go with those heads.....big valves are for higher rpm flow.

How ya been, anyway....havent seen ya on here in awhile.

[Captainfab]

Not all 186 heads had 2.02 & 1.6's and came on 302's. They were also available with 1.94 & 1.5's. Either way they are not too bad a flowing head, and they had ~64cc chambers. The '68 & '69 327's were medium journal cranks, so they could be put into 350 blocks. The only way to know for sure exactly what you have is to pull the heads and measure the valves and the stroke of the piston. In light of your comment on how it ran, it may not be a bad idea to pull the heads anyway and inspect for possible wear or damage.

[originalJD]

Originally Posted by protrash64

Maybe its got a wicked cam to go with those heads.....big valves are for higher rpm flow.

How ya been, anyway....havent seen ya on here in awhile.

Actually I think it is heavily camed. But wont know till I open it up. And I'm doing well. I've been busy lately. I got back into school hoping to find a better job/career. I still check in from time to time. Its just that I havent had much time to chat. Things are starting to level out again though.

Originally Posted by Captainfab

Not all 186 heads had 2.02 & 1.6's and came on 302's. They were also available with 1.94 & 1.5's. Either way they are not too bad a flowing head, and they had ~64cc chambers. The '68 & '69 327's were medium journal cranks, so they could be put into 350 blocks. The only way to know for sure exactly what you have is to pull the heads and measure the valves and the stroke of the piston. In light of your comment on how it ran, it may not be a bad idea to pull the heads anyway and inspect for possible wear or damage.

Yes, these heads will flo nicely I'm sure. It's just that I've worked on many engines and have never had this kind of problem before. It kinda confused the hell outta me at first. I realize now that my best bet is to just open it all up and see what I got. Thanks

[chucks1967]

I say build a motor to match the heads!!! a 302 would be schweet! and they run great!

[originalJD]

Originally Posted by chucks1967

I say build a motor to match the heads!!! a 302 would be schweet! and they run great!

I am aware of all the many options I have as far as dropping a V8 in my truck. And your right. A 302 would be pretty cool as it would be somewhat different. But, I'm a financially challenged gearhead and have to use everything I have that is usable. Make the best of what I got. I know I can get this motor to run good. I just gotta tear into it and figure out what it is exactactly that I have.

Thanks for all the replies on this.

I have another question too. In my research for identifying this motor I have found that the sites I have vistited differ in their information pertaining the numbers I'm researching. So my question is, If you have a good site to go to for running the numbers on a SBC (block, heads, parts) then could you provided me a link to it?
Thanks again.

[kdrodworks316]

Its only money...right?

[Captainfab]

Here are a few that I use....

http://www.mortec.com
http://www.73-87.com
http://www.nastyz28.com

[ksbrktracer]

NastyZ28 has been very accurate for me, As stated they did build large journal 327's so the cranks will fit in the 010 casting block (350) , the 186 casting heads I have also seen on the 300hp 350's as oem as well as 69 302's The big difference in the heads would be 300hp didnt have screw in studs and guide plates and had 1.94 valves instead of 2.02 like the 302 engine and actually that is a very desirable head casting depending on the date codes for the restorers

[66shortwide]

It is all just guess work until you pull it apart and measure it out. Any 350 can be turned into a 327 by using a late(big journel) 327 crank or a 307 crank. I am assuming those are the double hump heads and where available on a number of different small blocks with the main difference being the 194 or 202 valves.

Unless you watch somebody assemble the motor then no one but the builder usually knows what is really in there. There are so many combinations available that you normally have to pull the heads to see what you have.

[originalJD]

To be perfectly honest. I think this motor will run good if I can just get the timing adjusted just right and also get the carb adjusted. Because as I have mentioned before, I have gotten this motor to run and it does sound strong and solid. It just ran rough.

Any edelbrock carb guys out there? If so, got any good tips for adjusting a carb with an unknown history? I was told that if at any time this carb has ever been held upside-down then it would need to be taken apart to reset the needles as it could cause problems with fouling the plugs. Which just happens to be one of my problems.

[originalJD]

Originally Posted by originalJD

To be perfectly honest. I think this motor will run good if I can just get the timing adjusted just right and also get the carb adjusted. Because as I have mentioned before, I have gotten this motor to run and it does sound strong and solid. It just ran rough.

Any edelbrock carb guys out there? If so, got any good tips for adjusting a carb with an unknown history? I was told that if at any time this carb has ever been held upside-down then it would need to be taken apart to reset the needles as it could cause problems with fouling the plugs. Which just happens to be one of my problems.

I'm still going to run the numbers on all the internal parts just cause I want to know. And make sure everything is lined up like cam timing.

[originalJD]

Ok, I have gotten the timing cover and the oil pan off. I ran the numbers on the crank and got this......

CRANK CASTING #
3911001 A….307,327...cast….medium journal3.25”stroke

Then I went to run the numbers on the cam and seeing as I have never had to run cam numbers I have absolutely no idea where to look. So maybe one of you guys can help me on this one. I gave it a shot but came up with nothing.

CAM CASTING #
Crane
AN6201
CCH-304-2-NC

[TheDark1]

I punched in those numbers and found this on a F*rd web site??? The guy also said he called Crane Cams with the numbers and they gave him all the info he needed. There ya go. I hope this helps.


"On 2006-07-17 16:31, quickshift wrote:
CCH-304-2-NC.......hyd...rough idle'good mid-range......3000-6500....int,234@.050.....exh,244@.050...ADV duration.304/314..........110deg ctr line............556/579 lift....hope this helps, MARK. (pg 30,part#354561,1981 CRANE CAT.)"

[originalJD]

Originally Posted by TheDark1

I punched in those numbers and found this on a F*rd web site??? The guy also said he called Crane Cams with the numbers and they gave him all the info he needed. There ya go. I hope this helps.


"On 2006-07-17 16:31, quickshift wrote:
CCH-304-2-NC.......hyd...rough idle'good mid-range......3000-6500....int,234@.050.....exh,244@.050...ADV duration.304/314..........110deg ctr line............556/579 lift....hope this helps, MARK. (pg 30,part#354561,1981 CRANE CAT.)"

Yes. this does help very much. Thanks alot. Its my belief that at one time this motor was putting out some good power. I opened up the timing cover and discovered the single roller timing chain had way to much slack in it. But on my brief inspection on everything else. I see no excessive wear on anything else. I'm gonna dig into it alittle more this weekend.

[Captainfab]

Wow that's a thumpin' cam especially in a 327. Would definitely need a stall converter with that one. Too bad Crane is out of business, otherwise you could contact them for recomendations.

[protrash64]

Looks like I wasnt too far off the mark on this set-up.......

[originalJD]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

Wow that's a thumpin' cam especially in a 327. Would definitely need a stall converter with that one. Too bad Crane is out of business, otherwise you could contact them for recomendations.

I have a buddy who is going to hook me up with some really cool software which will enable me to conduct vertual dyno runs on basically any setup I can think up. It would be nice to get actual professional feedback. But I think this is gonna do just fine. I mean at least I will know what setup will work or not. This can be very effective in giving you at least a ball park estimate of what to expect as long as all the right specs are put in. Thats why I'm researching everything in the motor. That, and I just want to know exactly what I have.

And yes. That cam is much bigger than I thought it might be.

I'm thinkin 3" pipes all the way back! The neighbors are gonna just LOVE me.

[originalJD]

Originally Posted by protrash64

Looks like I wasnt too far off the mark on this set-up.......

Yup. Pretty darn close.

[TheDark1]

3" pipes are cool on a high winding v-8. I have true 3" duals thru Borla XR-1 race mufflers on a 300HP 350 and they sound really good at about 5000 rpm's. This thing should be a beast at 6500rpm. Gotta love the 327.

[Captainfab]

Originally Posted by originalJD

I have a buddy who is going to hook me up with some really cool software which will enable me to conduct vertual dyno runs on basically any setup I can think up. It would be nice to get actual professional feedback. But I think this is gonna do just fine. I mean at least I will know what setup will work or not. This can be very effective in giving you at least a ball park estimate of what to expect as long as all the right specs are put in. Thats why I'm researching everything in the motor. That, and I just want to know exactly what I have.

And yes. That cam is much bigger than I thought it might be.

I'm thinkin 3" pipes all the way back! The neighbors are gonna just LOVE me.

Is this software for doing virtual chassis dyno runs? Let us know how you like it

[originalJD]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

Is this software for doing virtual chassis dyno runs? Let us know how you like it

I have never used the program before. But I'm assuming it is engine only with out parasidic loss. Basically you build an engine and test it to see wether it works or not and to get an estimate on what it can do.

I've gotten into the motor some more today. I'ts down to a short block. I have found that the bores are 30 over. And also the heads are in fact 1.94's. I'm a little disappointed with the heads but who knows. It might be for the best as far as final results go. I have also discovered the may have possibly had a blown head gasket. Had rust in the #5 and #4 cylinders. But the good news is there are still no signs of excessive wear. It all looks pretty fresh still, with the exception of the carbon build up most likely a result of low octane fuel.

Here are a few more pics.... I'm glad I tore it down instead of trying to run it like it was. At least I know exactly what I got now.

[Captainfab]

With those flat tops and the ~64cc chambers of those heads you should be around 9.5 to 9.7-1 depending on deck height and gasket thickness. Have you determined if they are cast, hypers, or forged? Is the block a 2 bolt or 4 bolt. Sorry for all the questions, just curious