Valve adjustment issues???

[lsp1369]

Hey everyone..

ill start from the beginning, I recently bought my 73 c10, 350 SBC, TH400, 12 bolt rear.

(engine casting # is 3970010, ID # in front of the passenger head is VO225TBC, and the head casting # is 3973487)


i had my carb off and rebuilt and while that was being done.. i plugged the intake with a couple rags and pressure washed the engine come to find out the valve covers were loose and i unknowingly got a large amount of water in there, neddless to say i got the carb back (3 days later) and when i went to crank (not knowing there was water in it) and it fires and i get a loud rattle/knock from under the valve cover, so i check the oil and it looks like chocolate milk. So i get that stuff out immediately, put fresh oil in and try again. no more milk, but i have a loud rattle coming from the valve cover.

I figured the rockers were loose.. so i follow the adjustment method below.

No. 1 cylinder at TDC compression:

Adjust exhaust valve: 1, 3, 4, 8

Adjust intake valve: 1, 2, 5, 7

No. 6 cylinder at TDC compression:

Adjust exhaust valve: 2, 5, 6, 7

Adjust intake valve: 3, 4, 6, 8

adjusted them all 1/2 turn passed zero lash.


So i do this and i hear air going through all the valves when i go to crank the motor again. so now im thinking i over tightened them. well i do it again and I loosen all the rockers first. then follow the procedure again.

i adjusted the # 7 intake rocker while #1 cylinder was at TDC.. i then move on to the #6 cylinder at TDC and i go to check #7 intake valve (the one I already adjusted) and the rocker is so loose i can spin it almost all the way around.

So im guessing this is where my rattle/knock was coming from and the problem is probably a collapsed lifter.

any ideas on this or am i right in it being a lifter issue?

Thanks in advance for your time and assistance.

[lsp1369]

bump

[Dru]

To be honest, Ive never liked adjusting the lifters the method you're using, and prefer to set them individually as each rocker it at its highest point.

That being said, I would have been curious if the rockers were loose before you adjusted them, that would have been my first check, the half turn wont make that much noise, and they should have been flopping.

At this point you can loosen the rockers up, and the spring inside them should bring them to the top within minutes, the water should'nt affect that, unless it caused one to completely seize, or break internally, which I'm doubting it did.

You could also pull your intake manifold and look for a collapsed lifter, it should be evident if there is one, but if you're hearing a knocking, I bet the water took out your bearings, and you might not even be building enough oil pressure to feed the lifters, do you have a gauge?

[y5mgisi]

Dont forget there are TWO #1TDC's.

[lsp1369]

Originally Posted by Dru

To be honest, Ive never liked adjusting the lifters the method you're using, and prefer to set them individually as each rocker it at its highest point.

That being said, I would have been curious if the rockers were loose before you adjusted them, that would have been my first check, the half turn wont make that much noise, and they should have been flopping.

At this point you can loosen the rockers up, and the spring inside them should bring them to the top within minutes, the water should'nt affect that, unless it caused one to completely seize, or break internally, which I'm doubting it did.

You could also pull your intake manifold and look for a collapsed lifter, it should be evident if there is one, but if you're hearing a knocking, I bet the water took out your bearings, and you might not even be building enough oil pressure to feed the lifters, do you have a gauge?

If its the bearings, wouldnt i hear a constant knock and not a kind of cyclic one?

and would water cause a bad bearing that quick? i only fired it up the one time with the noise and thats when i realized it had the water. it ran fine before i pressure washed it, it had a little valve chatter, but remember, i just bought this truck 2 weeks ago, i have no idea how well the p.o. took care of it.

[lsp1369]

Originally Posted by y5mgisi

Dont forget there are TWO #1TDC's.

yea, i made sure i was on the compression stroke.

[Dru]

Yeah, it would be constant, but a lifter tap would be pretty constant also.

Its entirely possible to wipe out a bearing pretty quick, the water would have been sitting at the bottom of your pan, and been pushed through your engine till the pump finally hit oil, a lot depends on how much water you got in there.

If its still running, you could pull a valve cover, start it up, and see if youre getting oil to the top end, after about 30 seconds of running, you should have oil coming out of the pushrods, and flinging about, but its not bad enough to make a huge mess.

Then if youre not getting oil to the top, its definitely time to pull the intake..well the whole motor. Either way even if it has a collapsed lifter, the intake will most likely have to come off to fix it anyhow, if it hasnt pumped itself up by now.

I'm sure Im forgetting something, but am currently in a surprise 2 day rebuild of a big block that I purchased as "running", so I have to run myself, but I hope you get it sorted.

[vtwinsport]

Originally Posted by lsp1369

Hey everyone..

I figured the rockers were loose.. so i follow the adjustment method below.
No. 1 cylinder at TDC compression:
Adjust exhaust valve: 1, 3, 4, 8
Adjust intake valve: 1, 2, 5, 7
No. 6 cylinder at TDC compression:
Adjust exhaust valve: 2, 5, 6, 7
Adjust intake valve: 3, 4, 6, 8
adjusted them all 1/2 turn passed zero lash.

any ideas on this or am i right in it being a lifter issue?
Thanks in advance for your time and assistance.

I've always adjusted using this method; find number 1 TDC, adjust both push rods, rotate through to next piston in firing order.
Visual check is make sure distributor rotor is pointing to plug terminal location. Also, push rods should be both twist-able, somewhat.

Try that method then listen to it again.

[lsp1369]

Well.. I decided to just go all out and re-do the valvetrain.. minus cam.. all the cam lobes look good. I pulled the lifters and on the suspect valve.. it was opposite what I thought.. it was a seized lifter that ate the pushrod. So im replacing rockers, lifters and pushrods.. and since I'm there im pulling the heads to rule out a blown head gasket as the water culprit..

[vtwinsport]

That is a good idea. If you have to go to the trouble of reworking you valve train, you might as well be extra safe and check the head gaskets. And, it will make working on the valve train that much easier. Use Felpro gaskets. I've have bad luck with anything but.

[lsp1369]

Originally Posted by vtwinsport

That is a good idea. If you have to go to the trouble of reworking you valve train, you might as well be extra safe and check the head gaskets. And, it will make working on the valve train that much easier. Use Felpro gaskets. I've have bad luck with anything but.

yea.. i got felpro everything.. and federal mogul valvetrain parts(rockers, lifters, pushrods).


and i found what my initial chatter was.. when i pulled the passenger side head there was a screw that was all beat to hell inside the #3 cylinder.. but good ew is the cylinder wall looks good and the valves seat all the way into the head.. so now all left to do is clean 'er up add some paint to the heads and put it all back together..

[vtwinsport]

a screw! you are lucky that piston or cylinder isn't grooved to shreds. Would have been cool if you had compression test numbers before so you could compare with after.
good luck

[68 TT]

You may have more damage than you think.

I had an intake leak on a new engine and dump water into the oil. It was only running for less than a minute and it wiped out the crank.

It is really worth the effort to check out your bearings. All it will cost you is a little time and an oil pan gasket to check it out now that you have the heads off.

[lsp1369]

well.. the truck is up and running again. I havent had a chance to hook the exhaust back up so its running open headers and the neighbors are starting to give me dirty looks.

[lsp1369]

well.. the truck is up and running again. I havent had a chance to hook the exhaust back up so its running open headers and the neighbors are starting to give me dirty looks.

i ended up replaceing all the lifter, push rods, and rockers. I also replaced the head gaskets for piece of mind. and all is well now and the truck is running great.

[vtwinsport]

glad to hear it. You might want to do that compression test now so if you have any future issues you'll be able to see if one cylinder changes more than the others. Like the one that had the screw in it.