Please help me get started!

[harnalien]

Well, I have decided to take the plunge and get an LS-based engine. The reasons for this are plenty, but main one is that the costs of upgrading are much cheaper than in years past. I just finished a vortec-headed 350 a couple of years ago, but it’s not performing the way I thought it would. To upgrade that engine to a roller cam, new heads, etc. will be about as much as upgrading to the LS.

I have ’04 Dodge Ram Hemi Quadcab. I love that truck and the “seat of the pants” power it has. My goal is to mimic that feeling in my old truck. It is an ’84 2wd shortbed w/ a 700r4, 29" tires, and 3.73 gears. I want to say that my Dodge is heavier than my Chevy, but I could be wrong. According to Dodge, the hemi puts out 345hp and 375lb/ft of torque. I have noticed that the stock numbers from the LQ4 6.0 are fairly similar (300-25hp and 360lb/ft) to the hemi. The 5.3’s numbers are 285-305hp and 325lb/ft. I would like to know which would throw my truck around easiest. Would 400ishhp and 400ishlb/ft do it?

I am debating whether I should get an LQ4 and leave it stock, or get the 5.3 and stick a cam in it. I will get whichever engine I choose from LKQ and it will have less than 100K on it. I would love to just drop the engine in and not have to crack it open, but I don’t want to have to pull it out again to put a cam in it. Either one I choose, I will be going the carb’d route. There are plenty of good arguments for both sides, but I have decided carb is the way for me. I have a built 700r4, but I still need to stay under 450lb/ft torque.
So my options are:

LQ4 (6.0) stock w/ carb setup
LQ4 w/ a hot cam or ls6 cam (or similar)
LM7 (5.3) w/ a hot cam or ls6 cam (or similar)

This is a toy, so it will never tow or haul anything. Fuel mileage is not a major concern. I would like a little lope, but nothing too radical (I need vacuum). I would like more low-end power instead of having to wind it up. Sorry for the long winded post, but my mind has been racing the last couple of weeks thinking about how to proceed. Please let me know what y’all think and let me know if there are any questions I can answer!

[Jacfourteen]

"no replacement for displacement" is what comes to mind for me. I think that if the prices aren't too much different I'd go 6.0. I say this because it's alot of work to do swap so you might as well get the most out of it. The only downside to the 6.0 is the decreased gas mileage, but that isn't of concern when it's going into a play vehicle.

[swb85]

How much are you looking to spend? My vote would be a LQ4 with a carb, longtube headers and a mild custom cam (ground for a carbed setup). Your butt-dyno will be grinning ear to ear. You could do the exact same thing with a 5.3 for a lot less money since the 5.3's sell for a song nowadays, but the 6.0's four inch bores and superior heads are going to outperform the 5.3 and the extra displacement will always make more low end torque.

[harnalien]

Originally Posted by swb85

How much are you looking to spend? My vote would be a LQ4 with a carb, longtube headers and a mild custom cam (ground for a carbed setup). Your butt-dyno will be grinning ear to ear. You could do the exact same thing with a 5.3 for a lot less money since the 5.3's sell for a song nowadays, but the 6.0's four inch bores and superior heads are going to outperform the 5.3 and the extra displacement will always make more low end torque.

thanks for the quick response! I would like to spend at or less than 3K. The lq4 will be about 1100 and the lm7 would be about 600. I keep thinking lq4 so that i can more easily do future upgrades if i get the itch. the lm7 is just something that can be purchased with less hassle from "the boss." the lm7 would also be done faster because i could buy it and the carb/msd box at the same time.

[harnalien]

Originally Posted by Jacfourteen

"no replacement for displacement" is what comes to mind for me. I think that if the prices aren't too much different I'd go 6.0. I say this because it's alot of work to do swap so you might as well get the most out of it. The only downside to the 6.0 is the decreased gas mileage, but that isn't of concern when it's going into a play vehicle.

you are so right. i really think i "underbuilt" my 350, so if i'm going to make a change, i should do it right. go big or go home, right? i guess i was hoping someone could convince me to go 5.3, so i could get started faster, lol!

[LEEVON]

I think you're on the right track. Nice trans, gear and tire size combo, nothing to change there. My advice would be to go with either the 5.3L or 6.0L whichever is available and fits your budget and definitely do the cam either way. The cam swap itself is very easy and you can find used cams on ls1tech an other places for as little as $200. You will need a valve spring tool, some wooden dowels and a longer crank bolt or tool. Stay away from "re-grinds" but the used aftermarket cams are no problem at all.

also check out ls1tech.com...

[85burb]

I got my LQ4 shipped for 1k. Deff do the 6.0. That way you wont have regrets. I am doing same exact swap. Hope to have about 450+hp. A lq4 with hot cam and carb makes about 480 on magazins dyno. I have gone over the 3k mark but not by much and if you dont go overboard on fuel system like i have done you can cam it for less.

[BR3W CITY]

you mention the "seat of your pants" power, which actually inclines me to say stick to FI. Your throttle response will be better at any speed (and in any weather), and with even a mild cam you'll enjoy the power.

[harnalien]

Originally Posted by 85burb

I got my LQ4 shipped for 1k. Deff do the 6.0. That way you wont have regrets. I am doing same exact swap. Hope to have about 450+hp. A lq4 with hot cam and carb makes about 480 on magazins dyno. I have gone over the 3k mark but not by much and if you dont go overboard on fuel system like i have done you can cam it for less.

I think you're right, I don't want to be wishing I had gone with the 6. I read that article and that was what made me really consider it. It just doesn't seem real. I will have to start looking for which cam will give me what I want. I really don't think it will ever see anything above 5500RPM, so I think a cam that works under 6K will be good. And your 383 vs. LQ4 thread was the start of my obsession!

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

you mention the "seat of your pants" power, which actually inclines me to say stick to FI. Your throttle response will be better at any speed (and in any weather), and with even a mild cam you'll enjoy the power.

FI would be great if I truly believed I could do it all by myself, but I feel more comfortable going carb. Every time I start thinking about all of the stuff I would need to do for FI, I consider scrapping the whole idea. I will be doing this all by myself, so I need to stay within my skill level.

[85burb]

Originally Posted by harnalien

I think you're right, I don't want to be wishing I had gone with the 6. I read that article and that was what made me really consider it. It just doesn't seem real. I will have to start looking for which cam will give me what I want. I really don't think it will ever see anything above 5500RPM, so I think a cam that works under 6K will be good. And your 383 vs. LQ4 thread was the start of my obsession!

WOW.....That makes two people i have helped convert. Happy to help. Still cant decide if i am good influance or bad one....Guess it depends on who you talking to wifes...maybe not so much...friends and junkyards yes. I am using the scoggin dickkys ht1 cam. Is made for low end and throttle response. Has more lift then Hot Cam. Hope i made good choice.

[Clyde65]

So what worries you about the FI? I know it has been said before but if I can do it, anyone can, hell I'm a computer tech for Pete's sake!

If you putting it in your R10, then it will be easy from what I have seen, 89 burb speedo/cluster, 87-91 tank and Walbro pump. plumb it for return, put the fuel reg in and your basically done.

With this forum it will be easy no matter which way you go. FYI it will be expensive ( several hundred $ more for the carb and stuff) on top of getting the 6.0. but all that aside, you gotta do what you like first.

[BR3W CITY]

i second clyde.
I got a custom harness from fuelinjectionconnection, and all-in-all there are only 4 wires that I have to connect manually. Everything else is a factory Molex plug and its pretty straight forward.

[harnalien]

Originally Posted by Clyde65

So what worries you about the FI? I know it has been said before but if I can do it, anyone can, hell I'm a computer tech for Pete's sake!

If you putting it in your R10, then it will be easy from what I have seen, 89 burb speedo/cluster, 87-91 tank and Walbro pump. plumb it for return, put the fuel reg in and your basically done.

With this forum it will be easy no matter which way you go. FYI it will be expensive ( several hundred $ more for the carb and stuff) on top of getting the 6.0. but all that aside, you gotta do what you like first.

The main thing that worries me is the wiring and fuel. I don't know whether I need a wiring harness and a computer, or whether those are one in the same. I don't know if I need to get a whole new fuel tank with pump and regulator ($$$$). I need to figure out fuel return lines. These are probably pretty simple problems for some, but for me, it just flat out baffling. I don't want to get halfway through and have to give up.

All that said, today I spoke to one of the owners at the shop I frequent, and he made me feel confident that FI is the way to go and it's not that bad. He said he has been wanting to do it, so he would be happy to help me. He makes it seem like it's not that big a deal. Of course, he owns his own shop, so things that are concerning to me are nothing to him. I brought up three of my biggest fears, and he quickly dismissed them and showed me how they could be done on a 5.3 that he happened to have on a stand. So I will start figuring stuff out. I have seen a wiring harness from current performance for about $750. Do i still need an "ECU" or whatever it's called? That $750 is about the same as the MSD/carb kit, so that's cool. He mentioned I could use my fuel tank with an external pump. i have dual tanks so he said he could probably figure out the return line pretty easily. The other stuff has to be bought either way (radiator, mounts, bracketry, etc.). I have to figure out how to get the 700r4 hooked up to the FI throttle body whether it is drive by wire or cable driven. Who knows how this will turn out, but whatever route I ultimately decide on, I want to have it done by next August. Hopefully I can keep from going crazy thinking about this. Thanks all!

[Clyde65]

OK, I am glad you have gotten some help to work on your concerns.

If I was to do it again, I would look for my engine, making sure it comes with all accesories including PCM/ECM and engine harness.

I would go to FIconnections.com and get their harness and programing for the PCM/ECM, about $525.00 for the harness and about $175.00 for the tuning.

Mounts you can get from Dirty Dingo or summit ( flat plate for attaching stock mounts to LS motor)

You can get a fuel pump for the 87 r10 with v8 and I think that will work, i could be wrong there so I will let another chime in on that.

With the aftermarket harness you should have like 4 wires to connect, batty, speedo, fuel pump and keyed on.

So now all you got to think about is connecting to the trans....decision time, you can stick with your current 3 speed tranny, or go with the 4l60e elcetronic tranny that will be mated to the 5.3. either way will work just fine, with the 3 speed, you will need a new flywheel from GM, probably around $100.00.

With the 4l60e, you may need to re drill the trans mount and there you will definately need an electronic speedo, alot of guys use the cluster for the 91 suburban for this since some of those came with the 4l60 or 4l80 transmission.

I hope this gets you started. I strongly suggest you have a plan prior, make bench marks and strive for them.

if you want to you can come look at my little 4.8 swap sometime, so you can see how it looks, I did mine with just a little help from my mechanic ( the one who works on my newer cars). All work was done under my carport from July through Feb ( slow I know but I have excuses for that). PM me if your interested, also I bet there are some folks up near you that would do the same thing too.

[harnalien]

I have a built 700r4 that i'd like to keep. so i need to figure out how to hook it up to the cable throttle body. I have been looking at wiring harnesses. Would this work? http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product...n3/Perfect_EMS. I am looking for simplicity in this build, so the extra cost is not as much of a factor. I figure this kit with the software is just a little more than the msd/carb setup.

[Clyde65]

The 700 will hook up however you will still need a ls flywheel from GM. I know there is a writeup about the 700...I will look and let you know

That set up looks good, seems easier than doing all I said earlier too.

Go for it! I agree with your earlier statement about going with a 6.0 instead of the 5.3, why have a chance to go backwards when you can go forward all through the swap.

look here and read the whole thing, very informative!
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=377348

[Puglia10]

Im going through the same thing just with realllly slow progress with school and work. Im doing a frame off and decided to do a LQ4/4l80e while its apart. I bought the motor with everything including ecu/pcm for 900 and the trans for 400. So i dont think its too bad, but Im getting overwhelmed with everything, I need to make a better plan and ask some more questions, especially once I get to the motor part, I'm not even there yet. Everyone here seems to be very helpful so far though.

[Clyde65]

It looks like you did what i did, bite off more than you can chew....If it were me, which it was, make small goals for things, like chassis.....when finished, make a new goal etc and etc. that way you will see progress, it might be slow but it is progress.

[harnalien]

Yeah, I want this to be done as soon as possible, that's why I'm looking for full kits to do stuff. I like that painless kit because it will allow me to make changes if I do any other mods later. Plus, I don't have to find a harness and cpu, then send it off, and all that stuff. Brand new stuff and I can tune it with my laptop!

I'm trying to find something for the fuel setup. I'm thinking about going with a fuel cell in the bed and doing the pump and stuff from there??

Puglia10, I know what you mean by time management! I have my wife, two kids under three, my job, and school!! I'm lucky to have a wife who supports what I want to do

[Clyde65]

David Boyd here on the forum has a thread under the vendor parts section, he makes a really cool 19gal tank with the fi pump in there for you. He usually has two group buys a year, one in the spring and one in the fall, we both missed the fall one, so look for it in the spring around March or so.

since you already have your trans and got an idea about harness and PCM, your motor purchase should be easy, I would start looking on CL and EvilBay to see what there is available, then also look at LKQ and Shramm auto, there are others too.

With mine, I could only work on it every other weekend and some nights, most of the nights were after 9pm until about 1am, again this is in my carport. I took on the truck wiring harness, motor, trans, motor harness, fuel delivery, brake upgrade and some other stuff at the same time, I should have done it a piece at a time instead but it was worth it.

[harnalien]

Well, I've been hitting the websites hard the last couple of days. I think I will go FI since I will have some help. I like the wiring harness I posted earlier. I found a fuel setup posted by Glock that uses a stock '87 tank with new sender/pump/regulator...all at very budget friendly prices. The rest of the build I wanted/had to buy anyway, like cam/springs/pushrods, a new radiator, engine mounts, trans adapter/hookup, etc. I think I've read the stock manifolds will fit. i hope so. i can upgrade later if i want.

oh, here's the cam i'm leaning towards getting:

Comp Cams 54-414-11
Xtreme RPM, Camshaft, Hyd. Roller, 1300-6300rpm, Adv. Dur. 269 Int./273 Exh., Valve Lift .525 Int./.532 Exh., Lobe Angle 114 deg.

My truck is in paint right now, so i have to spend a little money getting little stuff to finish it out. i'm hoping to start the parts gathering process in mid to late january!

[Clyde65]

One thing may I suggest, look at either DT long tubes for headers or if you want to get stock, use the TBSS manifolds,
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=432336
they fit very snug to the block, there is a write up on the the LSX forum regarding them. I also agree with the 87 up stock tank idea/direction ur going too, we all need to be budget aware, I was on a very limited and got lots of surprises along the way. sounds like you are much more aware of the possibilities of curves out there.

Good luck dude, also use lots of tape and such to save ur paint when you start the build. Let me know if I can help. That is what this forum is for.

[BR3W CITY]

harnalien, what is the LSA on the cam you intend on running?

[harnalien]

I believe it is 114. I decided on this one based on an article from Hot Rod. It seemed to make good power throughout. The only thing, I don't know if it's choppy at all. I have heard the Hot Cam and it's choppy, but the dyno numbers i've seen on it show it having to rev high to ge to its power. Comp Cams has a sound file of this cam and it sounds pretty good. Here is the article.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...est/index.html

[BR3W CITY]

a 114 lsa cam will have a bit of a lope but I wouldn't call it choppy. Im running a 111 LSA and that sum***** humps.